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Spoiler Did Demise Ruin Ganondorf for Anyone Else?

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ganon isn`t the hate of demise, he is a new soul guided by the hatred of demise.

lets say that the hatred of demise is only the push that convinced a jealours man of invading anotehr country and taking the supreme prower

i think its also possible that demsie hate don`t just motivate ganondorf but also most of the villain that were sealed long ago or are born.

that coudl explain why there is so many people wanting to destroy hyrule
 
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Does anybody on this form like Ganon to begin with? I love Ganondorf and I think Demise was the most quick made flat boring character I have seen in a Zelda game to date. I think Ganondorf is much more better then demise they should just have thrown Ganondorf in Ss instead of demise it would of been more epic. I think the people who are bored of Ganon are just a little spoiled. Ganon is the bowser to mario. The eggman to sonic. "He is the ANTAGONIST of the series its self!" If you do not appreciate that then play Final Fantasy or Call of Duty. I am only posting this because I am sick and tired of hearing everybody say how he should of not showed up in Tp. He was awesome in Tp and I am a huge fan of this series. It does not seem fair how such a well done character was shunned in a good game.
 
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I agree with Mortelkill, Ganon is not a reincarnation of Demise but someone led by the evil left behind. As a Christian I view it like Satan's effect on the world. The sin caused by the whole ordeal has led to further sin/evil in this world. Just because someone on earth is evil doesn't mean they are Satan, it simply means that they have become corrupt by the aftermath of events that took place in the past. I could probably say it better, but it's late and I'm tired so keeping it short and sweet ;)
 

Ventus

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OoT Ganondorf was ruined with Demise. Not only was Demise a shame to final bosses worldwide (in my opinion), but his story was about as bad as TP Ganondorf's in all honesty.

The main difference between Ghirahim/Demise and Zant/Ganondorf is that Ghirahim states outright that he is simply a pawn trying to resurrect his master, whereas Ganondorf TP came at a somewhat derp moment. I'll try to compare Demise and TP Ganondorf:

  • Both Demise and Ganondorf *came back* from some sort of prison – Demise was sealed away by Hylia and TP Ganondorf was sealed away by the ancient sages.
  • Both have some sort of lacky who is entirely bizarre and utterly useless to the story at the end of it all – Ghirahim : Demise :: Zant : Ganondorf
  • Both are defeated by the same method and make some whack statement that is utterly in vain. I'll elaborate a bit: both are defeated by an Ending Blow (it's awesome!), and then they proceed to stand up, mortally wounded, and shout something as they die. Demise says "blahblahblah my hatred blahblahblah", Ganondorf says "omgzorz blood history....omgzorz". Both are dead, or we can assume as much.
  • Both appear to be REALLY awesome but that is only a shell to hide their terrible story and character.
  • Both underestimate EVERYTHING IN THEIR VISION. Really, Link has a piece of the Triforce in TP, and he at one point had the entire Triforce in SS.

I don't see Demise and TP Ganondorf as much of a stretch from each other. They both felt like useless villains, because they didn't really do much. We spent the ENTIRE GAME of SS battling Ghirahim and trying to help Zelda. We spent the ENTIRE GAME of TP battling Zant and trying to help Midna. We then get the EXPECTED plot twist of Demise, which in my opinion was pulled off rather weakly, and we get the UNEXPECTED plot twist of Ganondorf, which in my opinion was also pulled off rather weakly. Both were epic in their own right, but that radiance shined for only a slight few seconds, nothing more.
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Now, to actually answer the question: Demise really did ruin Ganondorf. Why did he have to place a curse? Why? What's the point of that, why couldn't he just outright kill Zelda like a REAL villain would? Why did he have to ruin Ganondorf with his silly statement that means NOTHING AT ALL BECAUSE WE KNOW LINK IS GOING TO WIN?!

Demise's hatred is a sham. If that is what causes every single villain currently in the Zelda series to do evil things, I'm truly disappointed. "I hate the gods so...yeah, now everyone is corrupt. The end, kthxbai" isn't legitimate...well, it is in a way, but it isn't cool or even EVIL. Nintendo could do better than this. I want an Albert Wesker in the Zelda series; someone who is actually EVIL.
 
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Because Demise is dead after being defeated by Link (or sealed away and then died later). He couldn't harm Zelda or Link after that match as Zelda's soul escapes from his body, but he can ruin their future lives with a curse. When you think about, Link and Zelda faced many hardships with Ganon. Ganon would often wreck Hyrule and plunged many golden times in ages of chaos. No matter how many times Link and Zelda defeat Ganon, he'll always return again. A force of nature that can never die. Even when WW Link and Tetra killed off Ganon for good and founded a new land to call home, evil came back in the form of Malladus. So the curse is more of a torment rather than victory. And to Demise, it's a victory itself as Link and Zelda will never have true peace for the eternity.

IMO, I don't think Demise ruined Ganondorf. Ganondorf is still his own character, much like Zelda is her own character rather than just being Hylia. Demise's curse just explains why Ganon always return and why Link and Zelda always there to fight evil.
 
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Hatred and origin are two different things. For instance, Demise's hatred might just go to someone who already has an abundance of hate in their life. Also... Technically... Ganondorf has only been originated once... He hasn't been ruined to me for the simple fact that they're not the same. Hatred is a strong emotion already and just the want for power is a great conduit for hatred.
 

JakeProtagonist

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Even if it was what people have said so far, That would still mean that the only reason all these bad things happen in the games, is because of this ONE villain, who isnt even the MAIN antagonist of the series. Thats VERY dissapointing.
 
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I think of the curse as being the ramblings of a dying man... beast... thing
He didn't actually place any kind of curse he just knew that as long as the triforce existed there would always be an evil striving to obtain and a hero aiming to stop them.
When I think of it that way, it makes more sense. Demise was a good opponent in my opinion as he had been set up as this bumbling beast throughout the entire game and then just as you think you're going to have to fight it again he becomes so much more intimidating. You spend the entire game facing Ghirahim and then this guy just comes and plucks a sword out his chest like it's the easiest thing in the world.

(I would go into my whole 'Link respects Ghirahim' thing and use that to explain why having demise 'kill' him was a good move, but the post would be so long I'm sure none of you would bother reading it)
 
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well...i wonder why demise killed ghirahim...couldn`t he just ask him to turn into his weapon form?

i consider demise to be the final boss and ghirahim to be the antagonist
 

Dio

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JakeProtagonist

Demise is just Ganondorf by a different name. They want the same thing. They are both huge muscular dudes, they have the same sideburns, red hair, dark skin, large noses, rounded ears. I like demise because it means that his curse is a confirmation that Ganon is never going anywhere. Even on the AT he will be reborn. They could have called demise Ganon and his curse be that he will rise again for eternity.

Ghirahim should have been the trident of power though.
 

JuicieJ

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OoT Ganondorf was ruined with Demise. Not only was Demise a shame to final bosses worldwide (in my opinion), but his story was about as bad as TP Ganondorf's in all honesty.

The main difference between Ghirahim/Demise and Zant/Ganondorf is that Ghirahim states outright that he is simply a pawn trying to resurrect his master, whereas Ganondorf TP came at a somewhat derp moment. I'll try to compare Demise and TP Ganondorf:

Both have some sort of lacky who is entirely bizarre and utterly useless to the story at the end of it all – Ghirahim : Demise :: Zant : Ganondorf

Ghirahim was far from "utterly useless" at the end of Skyward Sword. He was the actual reason for Demise's return. He wasn't just a pawn like Zant. Zant had nothing until Ganondorf gave him power. Ghirahim already had power to use, making him a legitimate asset to his master. Ghirahim was a huge road block against Link stopping Demise's return. Without Ghirahim, Demise really had no chance of returning. Simple as that. Ganondorf could have found any way possible to get out of the Twilight Realm eventually.

Both are defeated by the same method and make some whack statement that is utterly in vain. I'll elaborate a bit: both are defeated by an Ending Blow (it's awesome!), and then they proceed to stand up, mortally wounded, and shout something as they die. Demise says "blahblahblah my hatred blahblahblah", Ganondorf says "omgzorz blood history....omgzorz". Both are dead, or we can assume as much.

And? Isn't that kind of the point of the whole thing? To defeat the enemy and save the world? That's been the story from the start of the series. Why start complaining now? Just because they both say something doesn't mean anything. That's natural for a villain to do after being defeated. It's not just in Zelda that this happens. You know that, right?

Both appear to be REALLY awesome but that is only a shell to hide their terrible story and character.

Wrong. They had great stories. They just weren't in the game a proper amount of time for them to flesh out, which is a flaw, I'll admit. But they're far from terrible characters. They just had no chance to be.

Both underestimate EVERYTHING IN THEIR VISION. Really, Link has a piece of the Triforce in TP, and he at one point had the entire Triforce in SS.

Gee, I wonder why? Maybe because they've just almost conquered everything and see a 16-17 year-old boy standing in front of them? Would you think such a thing would stand a chance against you? I wouldn't. Especially if I also had a piece of the Triforce. (By the way, the key words of Link and the Triforce in Skyward Swrod are "at one point." He didn't have it at the end, so that argument is useless.)

I don't see Demise and TP Ganondorf as much of a stretch from each other. They both felt like useless villains, because they didn't really do much. We spent the ENTIRE GAME of SS battling Ghirahim and trying to help Zelda. We spent the ENTIRE GAME of TP battling Zant and trying to help Midna. We then get the EXPECTED plot twist of Demise, which in my opinion was pulled off rather weakly, and we get the UNEXPECTED plot twist of Ganondorf, which in my opinion was also pulled off rather weakly. Both were epic in their own right, but that radiance shined for only a slight few seconds, nothing more.

We hardly fought Zant throughout the whole game. He appeared a few times, but he wasn't fought until the end. Both of the "bigger" villains being fought at the end also makes sense. Would it be as big of a battle if they were fought beforehand? No. Ganondorf and Demise were meant only to be the final boss. Having them come back at the end makes sense. Their purpose was not to be the main villain of the game. Zant and Ghirahim were to have that purpose, which Ghirahim pulled off perfectly, unlike Zant. Again, Ghirahim is the reason Demise returned. Without him, Demise had no chance of returning due to Link and Zelda. It's not about any radiance of them. It's just the final threat to stop. Nothing more than that.

Now, to actually answer the question: Demise really did ruin Ganondorf. Why did he have to place a curse? Why? What's the point of that, why couldn't he just outright kill Zelda like a REAL villain would? Why did he have to ruin Ganondorf with his silly statement that means NOTHING AT ALL BECAUSE WE KNOW LINK IS GOING TO WIN?!

The only reason we know Link is going to win is because it's a video game about a hero who saves the world. In reality, Link may not win. He actually has to do something. It's not like he can sit back and expect the bad guys to defeat themselves.

Demise's hatred is a sham. If that is what causes every single villain currently in the Zelda series to do evil things, I'm truly disappointed. "I hate the gods so...yeah, now everyone is corrupt. The end, kthxbai" isn't legitimate...well, it is in a way, but it isn't cool or even EVIL. Nintendo could do better than this. I want an Albert Wesker in the Zelda series; someone who is actually EVIL.

Demise and Ganondorf are evil. If you can't see that, then that's kind of sad.

Anyway, it's only Ganondorf that's Demise's hatred. Majora was in a different world entirely. Twinrova are Ganondorf's surrogate mothers and are the head of Veran and Onox, who have nothing to do with Ganondorf or Demise (can't be the hatred at the same time). Vaati is under Ganondorf in FSA, so he can't have anything to do with his hatred. It's focused on Ganondorf, but not his origins. Bellum is also in a different world, and Malladus was an ancient demon in another land that has nothing to do with Hyrule. Demise's hate is only focused on why Ganondorf is so evil, as well as why he never stays down. I do agree that it was a bit abrupt with how they "touched on why Ganondorf showed up," but it wasn't the complete failure you make it out to be.
 

JakeProtagonist

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JakeProtagonist

Demise is just Ganondorf by a different name. They want the same thing. They are both huge muscular dudes, they have the same sideburns, red hair, dark skin, large noses, rounded ears. I like demise because it means that his curse is a confirmation that Ganon is never going anywhere. Even on the AT he will be reborn. They could have called demise Ganon and his curse be that he will rise again for eternity.

Ghirahim should have been the trident of power though.
actaully, this makes me feel alot better about it :yes:. Your right! Thanks! He is bassically the first Ganondorf. Or earlier person who tried to steal the Triforce! And Started it all. There still coud've been more backstory on him though. Ganondorf couldnt have existed back than since Ganon is a Gruedo name (I guess) And this is his earliest form. :D

And yes He shouldve been the Trident of Power. That would've been cool.
 
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Ventus

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And? Isn't that kind of the point of the whole thing? To defeat the enemy and save the world? That's been the story from the start of the series. Why start complaining now? Just because they both say something doesn't mean anything. That's natural for a villain to do after being defeated. It's not just in Zelda that this happens. You know that, right?

Gee, I wonder why? Maybe because they've just almost conquered everything and see a 16-17 year-old boy standing in front of them? Would you think such a thing would stand a chance against you? I wouldn't. Especially if I also had a piece of the Triforce. (By the way, the key words of Link and the Triforce in Skyward Swrod are "at one point." He didn't have it at the end, so that argument is useless.)

The only reason we know Link is going to win is because it's a video game about a hero who saves the world. In reality, Link may not win. He actually has to do something. It's not like he can sit back and expect the bad guys to defeat themselves.

Demise and Ganondorf are evil. If you can't see that, then that's kind of sad.
Sure enough it is, but with Skyward heralding "change", I'd expect to see better villains. Ones that, y'know, actually HARM people rather than temporarily hold power then fall to what appears to be a chump.

The problem there is that Link *technically* was on the same level as TP Ganondorf and Demise. Demise didn't have a piece of the Triforce and neither did Link. Demise didn't have Hylia completely sucked into his essence, I wouldn't even say partly, so Link wielding the True Master Sword would put him, and clearly did, on the same level of Demise. Ganondorf just came into power at that one point. Demise JUST got resurrected. They're cocky and we've seen it a billion times. Ridiculous that they would underestimate a little boy, regardless of their station. I personally wouldn't *under*estimate anyone if I were a major villain.

Go play Red Dead Redemption if you haven't already. Near the end of the game something totally unexpected happens to the main protagonist.

They are evil, yes, but what they do makes them look incredibly weak. Nintendo can make better villains, ones that have a real impact outside of that "last epic battle" that we've seen time and time again. People need to die, people need to be harmed, entire races of things need to be destroyed IN GAME. Otherwise, I'll be displeased and continue to nitpick.
 
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