Alright time to dissect this properly as promised.
You keep saying I swayed SMS, but I never once told him or anyone to vote Rag and had no intentions to. My back and forth with SMS was because he was suspicious of me so all of that was about defending my thought process and not swaying. I wasn't super confident in my Rag read but it was what I felt best voting at the time. And it's funny I'm considered spearheading the lynch because I was purposefully trying not to be a town leader or anything because I didn't want to die n1 in a game I really wanted to play in. So my actions weren't extremely townie d1 and you can say this is to cover my ass, but it was actually because I just wanted to survive past n1.
Not directly, but you kept defending your vote on her with what I still think is weak reasoning and managed to convince SMS to do his ISO of her which he wouldn't have done otherwise. And I guarantee that if your vote on Rag was not there, nor your explanation, that lynch would not have picked up steam the way it did. You don't have to directly say "vote for rag" for people to be swayed, and I kinda feel like SMS is a relatively easy player to manipulate. Additionally, using meta from a game the majority of us didn't play makes it so people mostly just have your word to go on since I feel like a lot of people aren't going to check that game as a reference.
You are right, though, in that you didn't directly lead the lynch, and I can understand your thought process here.
This is quite funny considering the post I just quoted. Your read of SMS was literally based on meta. That's the first thing you mention. That's why I thought it was bs because I knew he's acted differently as scum than what you were saying and the fact you seem so against meta but used that to justify your read.
Addressed this earlier but I never used his meta as the basis for my town read, I simply mentioned the last game I remember as a support for generally townie behaviour. It's not the same.
Knowing SMS was town, it does ping me the same way because it originally pinged me because I thought you were possibly scum giving an easy read on someone town.
He was acting townie though. Sure it was an easy town read, because it was imo. Hence the town read. Lol. This is rather silly tbh.
Yes and no. His vote doesn't look good because he kept it for no reason. His is probably my least favorite vote on Rag. But I also don't know if scum Pen draws that attention to himself as scum if he knows Rag will flip town.
It's also really easy to hide behind "lol I don't suspect anyone enough to remove my RVS vote" and simply use that as a lazy defense. Though this is a fair point.
Part of it is just a vibe. Your tone of posts feels like they're coming from maybe a more informed mind set. Also the meta stuff I mentioned earlier. There was one post I read after eod that I remember starting out agreeing with you and then the more the post went the less I liked it. I'll try to remember to find it later.
What exactly about my posts gives you the opinion of a more informed mindset?
I mean yeah. But I'm also notoriously always unconfident in my SMS read and bring it up often.
The inverse was not true.
If you were to discard meta completely, would you have felt the same way about him?
No, that was my basis for explaining the read. I read people based off of when I played scum with them a bit. So I was using that game, but it explained the scummy actions I was seeing. Which was asking questions (possibly to try to trip someone up to push them), but not going anywhere with them. Asking questions is easy because it makes it look like you're proactive without actually being proactive, so that people will townread you. But those questions never led to anything more.
Also, my reads lists when I'm scum are way more decisive, and has less nulls.
Already mostly answered this above. But it's not really convenient that I referenced the closest game I have to being scum with Rag. The game was a bit complicated but we did think we were scum to begin with.
How is me calling someone out for things that they do as scum and then that person saying "yeah I do do that as scum" flimsy? Like that should be the most solid proof that my read was at least genuine even if wrong.
But doesn't Rag often do that in general? I've definitely seen her do it in town games, so that meta explanation doesn't even really work. She did it a lot in Pen Mafia X iirc.
I can understand your mindset in thinking those actions are scummy in general, it was the defending the read based on such a niche game that bugged me about your read on her.
That's why I think it's flimsy, because it's not particularly AI and just seems like kind of an easy/opportunistic thing to keep scum reading her for.
I also addressed this earlier, but I think it's a bit much to act like I was really pushing for Rag's lynch. I was going with what I thought best at the time. Despite my read on you and SMS I was more unsure of those. If I were scum I'd probably just push you tbh. All of my posts were defending my read and vote of Rag and not pushing anyone else to vote her. If my reasoning for voting someone sways someone else that's not my fault because I can't just not give my reasons for voting someone.
Fair point. I still standby that SMS is a relatively easy player to manipulate, but you're right that you weren't actively pushing it and I shouldn't use what I said about SMS as a good argument.
I mean, you're not using meta here to read me and you're wrong. So both things have their places and I do get decent lynches and town reads from meta.
Past experiences just make meta leave a bad taste in my mouth. I understand the value and benefits but I don't think reads should ever be primarily based on it, or maybe in very specific cases that I can't think of. Because relying on meta as the basis of reads is inherently flawed and often just wrong.
I might be wrong. I don't even know if I'm actually scum reading you yet, just that I'm not really town reading. This is a solid post from you as a whole, however, so thank you for the responses.
