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Avengers Mafia: Attack of the Cosmic Invaders

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not necessarily. It are probably 2 completely seperate things. But I know it is a wrong lead. And because I genuinely think Jamie has been playing super scummy this game, it's an impossible task for me to try to hide my knowledge and save him through reasoning regarding his playstyle. If I don't jump in here he's probably a goner

Bleh, I don't like having to trust you of all people when it comes to not lynching something who seems to have been relatively scummy with a consensus on that. But I honestly don't see you as scum after your gambit with Frozen and now your aggressive defense of a scummy player. It's just not something I know you to do as mafia, so I'll roll with it for now. Are you certain that what's making you conclude this is 100% reliable? I just want to make sure.

It looks like Sadia is the next one in line for us if I'm reading what you and @LittleGumball are suggesting properly. I'm not opposed to that either and kind of agree with it either way.
 

kokirion

Just like you. But cooler
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Location
Wherever history is in the making
Bleh, I don't like having to trust you of all people when it comes to not lynching something who seems to have been relatively scummy with a consensus on that. But I honestly don't see you as scum after your gambit with Frozen and now your aggressive defense of a scummy player. It's just not something I know you to do as mafia, so I'll roll with it for now. Are you certain that what's making you conclude this is 100% reliable? I just want to make sure.

It looks like Sadia is the next one in line for us if I'm reading what you and @LittleGumball are suggesting properly. I'm not opposed to that either and kind of agree with it either way.
In mafia, 100% doesn't exist. But it's close
 

Sadia

Have a Punderful Day!
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
But why trust Kokirion? He's perfectly capable of manipulation. I know I use that argument a LOT but that's because it's true. Just look at Lineages for example.

I think I'd rather see Jamie respond to rest the case.

Anyway, Kokirion, you haven't responded to my question regarding the vote on me. :)
 
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But why trust Kokirion? He's perfectly capable of manipulation. I know I use that argument a LOT but that's because it's true. Just look at Lineages for example.

If you can show me a precedent for this type of behavior from him (wild gambits on Frozen, aggressive defense of a player many believe to be scummy), please do so. I'm not going to be bothered to read an entire game I wasn't a part of to find something I don't even know what to look for.

These types of hard connections he's forming doesn't seem like a good mafia strategy to me, unless Jamie is town and he's fishing for town cred. If that's the case, it doesn't really hurt us in the context of today and keeps a player alive that can potentially be useful in the future.

In mafia, 100% doesn't exist. But it's close

Yeah, you're right. Here's to the odds favoring us. With Jamie out of the way (for now), here's what I think right now:

-Sadia
-Deku Nut
-Hero of Legend
-Kirino
-A Link in Time
-Little Gumball

There has to be mafia among that list, perhaps multiple members. If Sadia is our best bet today, I'm willing to go with that.

And yes, there's a reason for the omissions in that list, so if one of you is going to ask me "why r u ignoring such-and-such their so scmmy lol", I already have my reasons and I don't really want to sidetrack and talk about all of them (you can probably find them throughout the thread - it's pretty obvious).
 

LittleGumball

Slammin' Salmon
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upstream
But why trust Kokirion? He's perfectly capable of manipulation. I know I use that argument a LOT but that's because it's true. Just look at Lineages for example.
This post solidifies your guiltiness for me. What is your thought process here? Do you think Koki is scum? Can he do absolutely nothing to change your mind?
 

Sadia

Have a Punderful Day!
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
If you can show me a precedent for this type of behavior from him (wild gambits on Frozen, aggressive defense of a player many believe to be scummy), please do so. I'm not going to be bothered to read an entire game I wasn't a part of to find something I don't even know what to look for.

These types of hard connections he's forming doesn't seem like a good mafia strategy to me, unless Jamie is town and he's fishing for town cred. If that's the case, it doesn't really hurt us in the context of today and keeps a player alive that can potentially be useful in the future.

Wasn't asking you to read the Lineages thread, that was just a general statement. Anyway, the aggressive defense of Jamie is exactly it. I got paranoid that the two are scumbuds together, and Kokirion's trying to get the town off his back. As for the bit on Frozen, you have a point. Not sure if Kokirion would be bold enough to do that, but it's possible. My point is, I don't have any real reason to trust him. If you're inclined to trust him, and think his claims are credible, then I guess we perceived things differently. I'd still rather see what Jamie has to say to leave the matter alone.
 

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
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Jan 30, 2011
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I doubt those two are scum together. Koki's too smart to protect his scumbud so directly like this. I could see one of them maybe being scum, but not both. I would also agree with you, though, in hearing Jamie's side of things.
 

kokirion

Just like you. But cooler
Joined
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But why trust Kokirion? He's perfectly capable of manipulation. I know I use that argument a LOT but that's because it's true. Just look at Lineages for example.
If instead of a case-by-case approach you're forever gonna distrust me because I can be dangerous as scum, wouldn't it be better then to always trust me instead? It's kind of like what my brother once told me about predicting what happens to the economy: "Statistically, the best way to predict the economy is to always say it will be improving. 19/20 times you will be right. One out of all these 20 times you'll be wrong, but that still leaves a success rate of 95%."
Statistically I'm town in 3/4 or even 4/5 of all the games, so by blindly trusting me you'll probably be better of than by blindly distrusting me.

Obviously my response above was just a joke, but my point is Sadu, your argument is bull****. I can't do anything with/against a never-trust policy.

Anyway, Kokirion, you haven't responded to my question regarding the vote on me. :)
Forgot about that.
3 things:
- I never saw you as pro-town, mostly just a gutfeeling, but you don't play as sharp and (in my eyes) genuine as you normally do as town. Doesn't make you scum, but there are simply people of whom I have better reasons to believe are town.
- Your vote on Malon yesterday, that was simply not how I would've imagined town-Sadia to play.
- by process of elimination. In the post where I voted for Froyo I showed how I narrowed my list of suspicious people down. You are simply part of a select group of people that can be scum, in my eyes. And in combination with the 2 earlier reasons I gave, I think there is a fair chance you are in fact scum.

And your attempt to make me look suspicious now by simply saying I've done manipulative things before in other games makes me more sure about my vote. If you are scum that would be a splendid way to survive, by making your attacker seem not trustworthy.
 
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Wasn't asking you to read the Lineages thread, that was just a general statement.

You can't expect me to just take your word for it - I know how deceptive he can be, but this isn't an effective approach at deception if he's scum. It would be different if he's done something very similar to this in the past, but I have no reason to believe he has unless you want to point it out to me.

Anyway, the aggressive defense of Jamie is exactly it. I got paranoid that the two are scumbuds together, and Kokirion's trying to get the town off his back.

These seems like an elementary mafia move that a seasoned player like kokrion wouldn't make - hard connections to your scum buds are among the least effective of mafia strategies, especially with a Serial Killer running around that could decide he wants to shed some light on the situation.


My point is, I don't have any real reason to trust him. If you're inclined to trust him, and think his claims are credible, then I guess we perceived things differently. I'd still rather see what Jamie has to say to leave the matter alone.

I view games on ZD as risk vs reward strategy backed by claim-trust probability and the number of players we have. In the event that there's no reason currently to believe kokirion is mafia both due to precedence and my own experience with his method of deception, it becomes more likely that Jamie isn't scum due to his aggressive and very risky defense. Conversely, this makes me question just what the hell Linkdude is and why you refuse to entertain the possibility of trusting kokirion and passing on Jamie as a lynch candidate today.

I'm fully aware kokirion could be mafia, the thought never exits my mind. But it doesn't seem probable to me at the moment. It's the exact same way I felt about Mido, and we saw how that turned out.

I doubt those two are scum together. Koki's too smart to protect his scumbud so directly like this. I could see one of them maybe being scum, but not both. I would also agree with you, though, in hearing Jamie's side of things.

Is it just me, or is this the exact same type of post Deku Nut's been throwing around the whole game? I'm just going off my vague memory here, but I remember like none of Deku Nut's posts because they've all been parroting and passively agreeing with ongoing discussion.

Just thinking out loud here because I can, I'd like to be proven wrong.
 

kokirion

Just like you. But cooler
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Is it just me, or is this the exact same type of post Deku Nut's been throwing around the whole game? I'm just going off my vague memory here, but I remember like none of Deku Nut's posts because they've all been parroting and passively agreeing with ongoing discussion.

Just thinking out loud here because I can, I'd like to be proven wrong.
No, I have a similar feeling about him. Honestly, I remember none of his posts, I hardly had an opinion about him till now. But yeah, there are probably 5 bad guys left, so if Sadia is scum that still leaves 4 others. Deku is probably another one. After Sadia is gone he will be high on my to-lynch list
 

Sadia

Have a Punderful Day!
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If instead of a case-by-case approach you're forever gonna distrust me because I can be dangerous as scum, wouldn't it be better then to always trust me instead? It's kind of like what my brother once told me about predicting what happens to the economy: "Statistically, the best way to predict the economy is to always say it will be improving. 19/20 times you will be right. One out of all these 20 times you'll be wrong, but that still leaves a success rate of 95%."
Statistically I'm town in 3/4 or even 4/5 of all the games, so by blindly trusting me you'll probably be better of than by blindly distrusting me.

Obviously my response above was just a joke, but my point is Sadu, your argument is bull****. I can't do anything with/against a never-trust policy.

Hold on, hold on. I don't know why what I'm saying is bull****. I'm just trying to be as cautious as possible, because what you said was vague and anybody of any alignment can say these things. All I was saying is that I couldn't just write off everything LD claimed just because you told me to. Blindly following somebody is something I don't do. I couldn't rule out that you guys are in on it together. I wanted to wait and see what Jamie had to say. If Jamie had leeched onto what you said when he was defending himself, then my wariness would increase even further.
 
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No, I have a similar feeling about him. Honestly, I remember none of his posts, I hardly had an opinion about him till now. But yeah, there are probably 5 bad guys left, so if Sadia is scum that still leaves 4 others. Deku is probably another one. After Sadia is gone he will be high on my to-lynch list

Glad I'm not going crazy. Him just chiming in for no reason and regurgitating in a very substance-less way want seemed painfully obvious to me just for the sake of him posting immediately struck me the wrong way.
 

Sadia

Have a Punderful Day!
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These seems like an elementary mafia move that a seasoned player like kokrion wouldn't make - hard connections to your scum buds are among the least effective of mafia strategies, especially with a Serial Killer running around that could decide he wants to shed some light on the situation.

Alright, you have a point with this. I forgot about the SK.

Forgot about that.
3 things:
- I never saw you as pro-town, mostly just a gutfeeling, but you don't play as sharp and (in my eyes) genuine as you normally do as town. Doesn't make you scum, but there are simply people of whom I have better reasons to believe are town.
- Your vote on Malon yesterday, that was simply not how I would've imagined town-Sadia to play.
- by process of elimination. In the post where I voted for Froyo I showed how I narrowed my list of suspicious people down. You are simply part of a select group of people that can be scum, in my eyes. And in combination with the 2 earlier reasons I gave, I think there is a fair chance you are in fact scum.

- While I've been busy this game, I have been trying as much as I possibly can. I have tried to put substance in my posts, not making them filler posts and be as helpful I can to the town. Guess that's not going to cut it though. Being 'unsharp' and less genuine is something I can't defend myself against.
- But it was town-Sadia who cast that vote. I don't know what else to say. Malon was going to be a hindrance to town, he said that himself. I didn't want him to play in that case.
- Again, can't properly defend myself.
 
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I've been saying I think Jamie is town ever since yesterday. He played the same way in Lineages to the point he asked to be replaced. I'm not saying he is going to be replaced, but I'm not too surprised by the small amount posts compared to before. Sure, Linkdude found that contradiction earlier, but that being said I feel like that is the only thing being pushed. That's the biggest reason I found Linkdude suspicios until he soft claimed.

As for Sadia, I found Sadia one of the hardest players for me to read. The in and out of activity always throws me off. That being said, I would be fine with a Sadia lynch.

Is it just me, or is this the exact same type of post Deku Nut's been throwing around the whole game? I'm just going off my vague memory here, but I remember like none of Deku Nut's posts because they've all been parroting and passively agreeing with ongoing discussion.

Just thinking out loud here because I can, I'd like to be proven wrong.

Honestly, I feel the same way about Dekunut. I also feel like Storm has been posting only about the night scene, jokes, or echoing others.

So right now my main suspicions are Dekunut and Storm. I don't know about Sadia or Viral and I would be fine with lynching them as well.
 

Storm

Ghost of The Roleplay Section
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Sep 10, 2011
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Hell
Thats still a pretty long stretch, Fro. Considering i suspect Deku as well, but he is revered. And he rarely slips. I have to be vigilant and watch what he does
 
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