Accepting Zelda post BotW

[Spirit]

BotW is different.

It doesn't feel like a traditional 3D Zelda and it barely looks and sounds like one either.

The design philosophy from the very first game may be there but the end product has put off a lot of people.

Zelda has had massive shifts before, namely Ocarina of Time, the first 3D Zelda which was unlike anything the franchise had seen before.

BotW, like OoT, is a line in the sand. A shift in Zelda that will shape the future.

With this in mind; knowing that the next 3D Zelda games will follow in the footsteps of BotW with large overworlds and similar gameplay mechanics, will you be able to accept the future of Zelda going forward?

Or was BotW the final shift for you?

Has Zelda shifted into a realm of design and gameplay mechanics that you just can't accept going forward?

 

[Dizzi]

Maybe we'll erase it from our brains.. and the official zelda world....

 

[YIGAhim]

I can accept that things are changing. I just hope they do it better, and FAST

 

[DarkestLink]

Zelda has had massive shifts before, namely Ocarina of Time, the first 3D Zelda which was unlike anything the franchise had seen before.

The game that has been appropriately nicknamed "aLttP 2.0" was unlike anything the franchise had seen before? What are you talking about? OoT did very little to change the series. All it did was place it in a 3D setting and added puzzles to the dungeons. And while going into 3D was a huge evolution, that didn't change the fact that most releases were 2D, even if we ignore the first four titles.

On topic though. Eh, I'm not sure. To be honest, the market is flooded with Open World games. BOTW wasn't a bad game, but it was nothing special compared to its vast competition. Zelda was a unique franchise that I enjoyed and had little competition. Some games have been cited as Zelda clones, but to be honest none of them (i.e. DS and Okami) played anything like Zelda IMO.

Zelda was special for this reason and I was always excited to get a new Zelda game for the first time in 5 or so years, even if it looked like Nintendo was screwing **** up. Meanwhile BOTW is just another a dime a dozen game. I might get the next one, but when there's so many games just like it that handle the Open World genre better, it's just not going to be a priority. Rather than being the first new Zelda game in X years, it's just going to be the 21st Open World game I've seen released this year.

 

[Hero of Pizza Time]

I personally like the Ocarina if Time fashion of Zelda games the best. So while I did like Botw as a game, and while I am happy that the Switch is selling quite well, I am very saddened that this is probably the end of the old Legend of Zelda that we all know and love.

 

[DekuNut]

Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of open-world games as a whole. I may check out future Zelda titles eventually, but if they follow in this track, I won't be getting most of them very fast.

 

[Quin]

On topic though. Eh, I'm not sure. To be honest, the market is flooded with Open World games. BOTW wasn't a bad game, but it was nothing special compared to its vast competition. Zelda was a unique franchise that I enjoyed and had little competition. Some games have been cited as Zelda clones, but to be honest none of them (i.e. DS and Okami) played anything like Zelda IMO.

I disagree with this.
I played my fair share of open world games, and BOTW felt way more special and just better than 90% of them. Its also the first one were traveling the world was actually fun in itself. (except maybe Spider-man 2 and gravity rush)
Meanwhile Okami is a better zelda than quite a few official ones honestly.

 

[DarkestLink]

Its also the first one were traveling the world was actually fun in itself.

So what personally made it fun for you? I mean I can understand the concept of exploring a world where traversal is fun, but whereas a character like Mario is agile, mobile, quick, and filled with an arsenal of platforming moves, Link moves at the pace and stiffness of a senior citizen with hemorrhoids. I'm not even being hyperbolic when I say that even with three bars, he has less stamina than my grandmother.

Then the traversal itself is just so...uneventful. Climbing a mountain? Press B as many times as I can get away with (if at all) and then spend the remaining time with one hand on the joy stick and the other checking my Twitter feed. Paragliding? One hand on the joystick, the other checking my email. Riding a horse? Leave it on autopilot while I go make a sandwich. Walking? Leave the control stick on the ground with the joystick tilted up...and go make some coffee to go with that sandwich.

And I'm not really exaggerating here either, there have been times where I just left the control stick titled up and went to deal with something else, like getting food or collecting mail. The world is so uneventful, it doesn't require my attention at all. It just feels like one massive loading screen until I can get to the gameplay, sorta like Wind Waker's ocean but bigger and emptier.

 

[Aku]

I personally like the Ocarina if Time fashion of Zelda games the best. So while I did like Botw as a game, and while I am happy that the Switch is selling quite well, I am very saddened that this is probably the end of the old Legend of Zelda that we all know and love.

I would have to disagree on the 'old Legend of Zelda' bit.
OoT only replaced something that was even older, it was not the original play style or game structure. BOTW is sort of a return to the oldest play formula, one that some fans who got their start and grew up mainly playing OoT are not used to.

I feel they are trying to reignite the series for newer people and fans that got bored of it, after Ocarina the series did railroad down an ever increasingly narrowing of the lore and focusing too much on the achievements of one past Link. (Also the rote formula of progression and dungeons the games became adhered to.) This might mainly please fans of Ocarina but to other people it's hella boring. And when stuff gets boring, people move on to something else.

So Nintendo wants people to get excited again and that's why they are doing this. (Japanese players also seems to be liking BOTW, which means a regrowing fanbase and potential for bigger and better things.) It might take some time getting used to, but I do believe it will be for the best and Nintendo will improve on trying to lessen any faults for future games.*

* Many people weren't crazy about the shrine's, so I have a feeling Nintendo will try to bring back a few dungeons.

 

[AncientPoe]

I enjoyed this game immensely, but I hope they find a way to reign it in some for the next one. The world was gorgeous and fun to explore, but I want more structure and difficulty from the game's challenges. And real dungeons this time.

 

[DarkestLink]

I would have to disagree on the 'old Legend of Zelda' bit.
OoT only replaced something that was even older, it was not the original play style or game structure. BOTW is sort of a return to the oldest play formula, one that some fans who got their start and grew up mainly playing OoT are not used to..

How did OoT replace anything? It's simply aLttP+ and aLttP, in turn, is just LoZ+. The only huge change OoT brought was the ****ty 3D overworld, which BOTW is unfortunately still using (just bigger). Back with LoZ (and most 2D games tbh) you didn't have this massive free roam world. You had a bunch of linear corridors filled with enemies and obstacles. Just look at LoZ's map, the entire thing is a bunch of hallways. This is far away as you can get from BOTW's world.

Since the beginning, dungeons have been the focus of the series, easily taking up most of the gameplay. There are exceptions, but they are rare and even for those games, dungeons still have the highest % of gameplay focused to them. Not that it really mattered back then. With games like LoZ, the overworld played almost identically to the dungeons.

Non-linearity is something that's occasionally brought up, but this wasn't introduced by OoT. aLttP was more linear than the original and LA was completely linear. OoT was actually a step backwards and closer to aLttP in that regard. MM brought the series to full linearity with succeeding titles remaining linear. This was inevitable. With a focus on dungeons, non-linearity only got in the way and limited what puzzles the developers could create. The series never utilized non-linearity at all. You were never given options in which non-linearity was truly beneficial. It was always superficial nonsense like "Do I do Dungeon A or Dungeon B first?" with the end result being exactly the same. Meanwhile linearity allowed for a more cohesive story and, more importantly, allowed dungeons to build off each other. It was a straight evolution.

Even BOTW doesn't really do anything with it's non-linearity. You can do Shrine A before Shrine B...does that change anything? No. You can do the Divine Beasts out of order and get different rewards in a different order...if you have prior knowledge of the game. But unfortunately these rewards are by no means game changing at all and this is truly the extent of how non-linearity is utilized...which is pitiful. And personally I think the player is better off just following directions and doing what they're told because it feels like the more you stray from what the game wants you to do, the more you're punished. Sometimes heavily.

 

[Castle]

The design philosophy from the very first game may be there but the end product has put off a lot of people.

I disagree. The only part of TLoZ's design philosophy that remains in BotW is the go anywhere do anything open overworld that has been ever less and less present in recent Zelda games. Ironically, ninty had enough sense to crank that core part of the series up to 11 for BotW but did so in the same sort of dull inane manner we're oh so woefully accustomed to with open world titles. But, they also neglected other core parts of the experience.

Such as the overworld/dungeon dichotomy. The "dungeons" in BotW are laughably inane. It also disregarded all sense of discovery when the whole game boils down to an endless cycle of acquiring endless piles of throwaway loot and farming shrines for stamina and health ups.

BotW also lost the narrative, which granted, wasn't a factor from the start but it certainly has become a core element of the series since early on.

Zelda has had massive shifts before, namely Ocarina of Time, the first 3D Zelda which was unlike anything the franchise had seen before.

Ocarina of Time was a natural advancement for the series that brought Zelda into a new modern age. Majora's Mask was a unique one off concept that enhanced and presented a new twist on the series core tenants of exploration and discovery.

Zelda titles like Wind Waker, BotW and Suckward introduced new elements, new structure, new concepts and omitted essential elements of the series to its detriment. This is why these entries in the series don't feel like Zelda games. They don't offer the Zelda experience that people expect. Any other game from any other series could conceivably do what BotW does (and suckward sword is just plain garbage). The rest of the series is uniquely Zelda (yeah with the exception of minor titles like TFH and arguably FSA)

With this in mind; knowing that the next 3D Zelda games will follow in the footsteps of BotW with large overworlds and similar gameplay mechanics, will you be able to accept the future of Zelda going forward?

The problem doesn't lie with BotW. On its own BotW is alright. If it weren't for the name attached to it the game would not have been received very well, certainly not as well as a Zelda game gets by way of its pedigree. It would have been regarded similarly to No Man's Sky I should suspect, albeit not as intensely. Overhyped and underwhelming. Not bad. Just disappointing because it falls so short of having anything to offer.

Nay, the problem lies with nintendo. With how insanely out of touch they are. With how little regard, if any, they give to western audiences. With how incompetent and ignorant they are with modern development trends and practices. With how little they understand their own intellectual properties.

Zelda won't change unless nintendo changes or the Zelda series finds a home that will provide for it better.

 

[Caramel H]

Nintendo has a history of trying to innovate new things even if the majority isn't really into it (remember the cardboard wii-remotes?) I want some traditional Zelda again, that'd actually stand out more than another game trying to mix things up.