Xenoblade Chronicles Mafia: Destructive Reawakening

[Justac00lguy]

Music is usually quite ambiguous when claiming, but that isn't the point.

Wouldn't you rather know for sure whether he's Mafia or Town rather than lynching him and then finding out? You have a scenario here where we can know for sure and make a calculated, safe, decision with little-to-no consequences. Or we can make the rash and risky decision.

I understand your frustration, but I think we can go about it in a better way than just lynching him right here right now (Inb4 someone posts a video of that song).

 

[Frozen Chosen]

Also why do you keep generalising certain actions in a couple of words? It feels like you're grasping at straws, so you use a certain word or phrase to strengthen it. In a way, that's passively putting suspicion on me, which is oddly enough something you accused me of.

How am I generalizing? I pointed to the things that made me suspicious of you. Is that wrong? It's not passive at all. I pointed out what made me feel suspicious about you just like you are doing with Dekunut, except I didn't vote for you because I believe Savage will flip scum.

What was "passive aggressive" about it. I'm making my stance on this perfectly clear, I'm not doing it in some "passive" way. I don't like people flip flopping and I made that point clear earlier to SMS and Eoghan. IYou can think of me scummy all you want, but I'll put "suspicion" on whoever I think is, well, suspicious. That's Mafia and I like to point out when I feel suspicious of certain people, I don't hide my views out of fear - that just creates dishonesty and doesn't promote good discussion (in other words, it's very tactile and sneaky).

Suspicions can come from anywhere in the game. Just like you said, I will put my suspicions on those who I find suspicious. You found SMS suspicious and I find you suspicious for it. I'm not telling to hide out of fear...

It's passive aggressive because you started off with a warning about SMS flip flopping. Then you got upset that it kept happening. But you haven't voted for him because of your hunch on Dekunut...

I will be honest though, you say it looks as though I'm pulling at straws, and you're right. But to me, these "straws" are legitimate enough to make me suspicious of you.

 

[Cody]

In the interest of targeting a suspicious person who isn't also probably our doctor, for now I'm going to go with:

Vote: Savage Wizzrobe

I'm going to give the thread another read though.

 

[Musicfan]

I've also pulled this same stunt befor. And even unintentional it work out well for the town.

 

[Rosa Luxemburg]

Music is usually quite ambiguous when claiming, but that isn't the point.

Wouldn't you rather know for sure whether he's Mafia or Town rather than lynching him and then finding out? You have a scenario here where we can know for sure and make a calculated, safe, decision with little-to-no consequences. Or we can make the rash and risky decision.

I understand your frustration, but I think we can go about it in a better way than just lynching him right here right now (Inb4 someone posts a video of that song).

The problem is your suggestion is for a cop to investigate him tonight, forcing a cop to roleclaim tomorrow. If the cop tells us he's inno then we have the problem of a claimed cop out in the open and our doctor protecting them each night, or risk the mafia or a potential SK from killing them. If the cop tell us they're guilty then we find a scum at the cost of outing our cop.

Either way your strategy forces a cop to roleclaim, or for a cop to try and lead a lynch against musicfan tomorrow (if he shows up scum). And at this point it would be clear that person is a cop if they're suddenly gunning for musicfan strongly. I'd rather not have a cop roleclaim Day 2 and force them to out themselves. Or for us to get into the whole "Follow the Cop" strategy because that makes the game significantly less fun.

 

[Justac00lguy]

How am I generalizing? I pointed to the things that made me suspicious of you. Is that wrong?

Yeah but you sum it up and don't exactly explain the full picture. That's generalising to make your argument seem stronger.

It's not passive at all. I pointed out what made me feel suspicious about you just like you are doing with Dekunut, except I didn't vote for you because I believe Savage will flip scum.

Ok so what is different than what I did and what you're doing now?

Suspicions can come from anywhere in the game. Just like you said, I will put my suspicions on those who I find suspicious. You found SMS suspicious and I find you suspicious for it. I'm not telling to hide out of fear...

Exactly so why do find me suspicious for exactly what you just did to me? If anyone airing out their suspicions is now something to be suspicious of then we're going to get nowhere. I have no problem with you finding me suspicious, but I'm going to question you on it.

Also I didn't say you were hiding out of fear, that was just to anyone who hides their suspicions throughout the game.

It's passive aggressive because you started off with a warning about SMS flip flopping. Then you got upset that it kept happening. But you haven't voted for him because of your hunch on Dekunut...

Warn him about what? I said if he wasn't a newcomer I'd vote for him. If that's what you're referring to then how exactly is that passive aggressive in any way? I've made it pretty clear that I'm not a fan of flip flopping and that's because it's usually a scum tactic to fit in. I'm making this as clear as possible.

Plus that isn't the only reason I'm not voting for him, I'm willing to let it slide because he's a newcomer. I think we all mutually agree that being a newcomer is hard especially when you have a game that's as fast paced this game. If SMS was an experienced player I would vote him, most of the time I've lynched a scum member was due to some kind of flip flopping/following. It's a big pet peeve of mine and one that I actively look out for the entire game.

I will be honest though, you say it looks as though I'm pulling at straws, and you're right. But to me, these "straws" are legitimate enough to make me suspicious of you.

Be prepared to be suspicious of me the entire game then because this is how I play :p

 

[SavageWizzrobe]

How am I generalizing? I pointed to the things that made me suspicious of you. Is that wrong? It's not passive at all. I pointed out what made me feel suspicious about you just like you are doing with Dekunut, except I didn't vote for you because I believe Savage will flip scum.


Suspicions can come from anywhere in the game. Just like you said, I will put my suspicions on those who I find suspicious. You found SMS suspicious and I find you suspicious for it. I'm not telling to hide out of fear...

It's passive aggressive because you started off with a warning about SMS flip flopping. Then you got upset that it kept happening. But you haven't voted for him because of your hunch on Dekunut...

I will be honest though, you say it looks as though I'm pulling at straws, and you're right. But to me, these "straws" are legitimate enough to make me suspicious of you.

Frozen, could you elaborate as to why you are particularly suspicious of me? I haven't really seen any very solid reasoning from you thus far.

To elaborate on my suspicions of SMS even further, even for a new player he flip-flopped significantly more than I did when I was new. I flip-flopped maybe 2-3 times my first time, whereas SMS has flip-flopped 5-6 times over the course of this day. I'm also not sure of the expendability of his role, that is, if he does flip town, what are the repercussions of his death? Since he hasn't really softclaimed, I'm under the impression that he may be about as expendable as I am.

I understand that I'm a potential lynch target, but I also understand that my lynch would be very beneficial to the town. Moreover, due to a new full-time job that requires me to go to sleep by 10 pm, I haven't been able to be as active as I thought I would be, and I clearly can't invest enough time or energy into this game to be considered an active player. As such, I'd be willing sacrifice myself, just so that we don't lynch a vital town power role on Day 1 by accident. The more think about it, the more I realize that it may be the best thing for me to do.

Wow, that was a bombshell. At least that's off my chest.

Unvote
Vote: SavageWizzrobe

 

[Justac00lguy]

The problem is your suggestion is for a cop to investigate him tonight, forcing a cop to roleclaim tomorrow. If the cop tells us he's inno then we have the problem of a claimed cop out in the open and our doctor protecting them each night, or risk the mafia or a potential SK from killing them. If the cop tell us they're guilty then we find a scum at the cost of outing our cop.

Either way your strategy forces a cop to roleclaim, or for a cop to try and lead a lynch against musicfan tomorrow (if he shows up scum). And at this point it would be clear that person is a cop if they're suddenly gunning for musicfan strongly. I'd rather not have a cop roleclaim Day 2 and force them to out themselves. Or for us to get into the whole "Follow the Cop" strategy because that makes the game significantly less fun.

That's a good point, but hear me out.

If the Cop investigates Music and he's not Mafia, he doesn't need to claim. We will just have to assume he's telling the truth and half trust Music. We won't have full confirmation, but if the Cop doesn't out Music and if we have no counter claim then it all but confirms Music is being truthful. The chances that, if Music is scum, and we get no Cop claim or counter claim from the Doctor, is very very slim.

If Music is Mafia then I think the Cop shied claim and I'll explain why. There should be 3 Mafia considering that most Mafia games here have around 18-22 players and they usually have 4. So if there's three, I have no problem with the Cop claiming because this puts us at an extremely statistical advantage. Though that's not my only reason. If Music is Mafia, then the Doctor (who will be anonymous) can protect the claimed Cop and we can keep using this to our advantage until Mafia eventually kills the Doctor. This will work, and if Music is Mafia, we will have a huge advantage.

So in short: If Cop gets an innocent result on Music, don't claim. If he's guilty, claim since the Doctor can protect him/her.

 

[pkfroce]

Holy ****. So much activity. I dont have a lot of time today as I just got back from my trip. Thats why I was gone from Thurs-Today. Were unpacking and stuff and I honestly dont think I'll have time to make a substantial post. With a bunch of reads and ****. I only skimmed through the last 10 pages. I apologize for the inconvenience. Anyway Rosa, the two people I find to be the best lynch candidates are DekuNut and SMS.

DekuNut: Was kinda flipflopping his playstyles, but hendid explain himself and clear his name somewhat. I'd keep an eye out though.

SavageWizzrobe: After his statement right now.. If he's willing to sacrifice himself AND he says his lynch would be beneficial.. Idk what he means by that though. Do you mean like we're better off without you? Or is your role something that makes things better for the town if you die. But for now..

Unvote

Vote: SavageWizzrobe

Thats all I've got for now. I'll try to post something more later on, but I might not be able to. Again really sorry for this.

 

[Rosa Luxemburg]

That's a good point, but hear me out.

If the Cop investigates Music and he's not Mafia, he doesn't need to claim. We will just have to assume he's telling the truth and half trust Music. We won't have full confirmation, but if the Cop doesn't out Music and if we have no counter claim then it all but confirms Music is being truthful. The chances that, if Music is scum, and we get no Cop claim or counter claim from the Doctor, is very very slim.

If Music is Mafia then I think the Cop shied claim and I'll explain why. There should be 3 Mafia considering that most Mafia games here have around 18-22 players and they usually have 4. So if there's three, I have no problem with the Cop claiming because this puts us at an extremely statistical advantage. Though that's not my only reason. If Music is Mafia, then the Doctor (who will be anonymous) can protect the claimed Cop and we can keep using this to our advantage until Mafia eventually kills the Doctor. This will work, and if Music is Mafia, we will have a huge advantage.

So in short: If Cop gets an innocent result on Music, don't claim. If he's guilty, claim since the Doctor can protect him/her.

The cop will be able to confirm musicfan's potential innocence, but what about the rest of us? We can't know the result unless our cop roleclaims. We don't even know who our cop is, and they might want to investigate someone else instead. I'm still getting an anti-town impression out of him with his apparent soft doctor claim, asking a vig to shoot someone, and basically giving up after having two votes cast on him. Plus lacking any content to his posts.

Further, why would a doc counterclaim on Day 1? A doc is one of our most valuable assets and counterclaiming musicfan Day 1 means the mafia would know who the town doctor is. (Or there could be two, but that's a risky assumption). If mafia have a roleblocker they can safely keep the doctor roleblocked. If they have a watcher they can watch the cop and figure out who visited them that night, thus finding the doctor. Confirming or denying musicfan without a lynch would be dangerous for the town to do this early in the game because it's going to force a number of people to roleclaim in order to discredit him somehow.

 

[Rosa Luxemburg]

@SavageWizzrobe If you're truly town, why not roleclaim? Let us decide if your role is worthy of keeping around or if we should switch the town lynch to someone else.

 

[SavageWizzrobe]

pkfroce, what I'm getting at is that I don't feel like I'd be that useful during the night phase, especially when compared to cop, doctor, vig, or roleblocker, hence my reasoning is to divert the lynch to myself, so that we lynch someone who is basically a VT instead of a crucial town power role. It's definitely a safe thing to do. Sure, we don't lynch anyone who's anti-town, but we also don't lynch a town power role and regret it later. Plus, it will provide us with valuable information: actual hard evidence. As such, I think the benefits of my decision outweigh the risks.

I'm not outright giving up. I'm not trying to say "hey guys, you should lynch me because I don't want to play anymore." I have given this tough decision a significant amount of thought. If this is a role madness style game, which I'm fairly certain it is due to having played other themed games on ZD, I might have one of the least useful night abilities.

I'm a courier. I can send a message to another player at night, and that's it.

 

[Rosa Luxemburg]

If you're a courier then you're one of the few roles that can confirm themselves. You can send a message to a player (preferably, whoever you read as the most pro-town). And they can confirm if you got the message. Alternatively, the mafia could roleblock you, but in that case it would guarantee that our night roles (i.e. a watcher, cop) would be able to do their business without fear of roleblock.

Unvote: SavageWizzrobe

 

[Rosa Luxemburg]

At this point I believe the points brought against musicfan are sufficient enough. This doesn't clear pkforce from my suspicions but we'll see how they act in the next Day cycle.

Vote: musicfan

 

[Ronin]

SavageWizzrobe has roleclaimed, making it the only time it can be done today.

I've been pondering if musicfan's softclaim counts as a roleclaim, but I feel that would be overly intrusive into the game. As long as softclaims don't happen more than twice a Day, which equates to mass claims, I won't heavily restrict it.