Mafia A: Pokémafia Game Thread

[DeletedUser9]

Justeazy, you're being bizarrely vindictive and challenging at this point, which is a miraculous change in your attitude from before.

Most things in that are just you rambling to cover your tell, which is exactly why I didn't want to show what I'd found yet. These are the two parts I saw that need further elaboration after the shat you just spat.

No. That is just a plain out lie. You say "I'm not going to participate in this random voting crap blah blah blah" and sure, if that was all it was then I wouldn't care. But, you then continue to say that you're not going to participate at all, and you're just going to watch until the thread moves on. Meaning you're not going to post. And you post three times telling us you're not going to post about it. However you want to lie about it now, that is what you posted at the time and that is the contradiction you put yourself in. And if you look at the underlined part; again a lie, you were not conversing with anyone. The first page is there for all to see. Those posts were quoted in their entirety. The second one could be a reply to HoT, but it's more like "lol udon'tkeepupwitholdgames insult, restatement of what I've already said." You simply said you aren't going to participate (you're not really talking or replying to anyone) multiple times. Once would have been fine, we would have known why you weren't participating. Three times is scummish overkill so we don't suspect you.[/QUOTE]
I don't even know where to start with this. Alright, first, you can claim it's a lie but in the end that's only your assumption, one that is not based on anything but personal opinion. I told you what the intention of those messages were, and I said it honestly. Please, please, honestly tell me what secret scum action was hidden in those messages? And moreover, please tell me why you expect that one of the best Mafia players would slip up on the first page of the thread for absolutely no reason, when there was no advantage to even try to deceive or distract anyone yet? Why would I try to distract people who were already distracted? Even saying that you're right about it being suspicious, it doesn't make any sense. Seriously look at it again and explain the logic to me, please.

The only message of those three on the first page or so that didn't address someone directly was the first. The second directly refers to HoT, and was clearly speaking directly to him, and the third was referring to Meego. Speaking of the second message, that is the one where I state that I don't actually disapprove of RVSing, I just don't do it myself. I stated it that early.

I wasn't talking about the conversation started when I voted for you with evidence. I was talking about the conversation you shot down where I quoted you. It's basically
You: "hey guys, let's have a convo!"
Someone: "Okay, let's speculate who the characters may be! It could be ~~~"
You: "I don't know much about that.... "

Wait, wait, wait, you mean this?

Except there really isn't a character who would really fit a Usurper. You gotta remember (and this goes for everyone) that, when you suggest what a role might be, first off, if there isn't a character likely to be said role, the role is most likely not in the game (for instance, say we're playing a game themed around the Mario platformer games; there aren't any characters who ever betrayed the main villain/plotted to betray the main villain in any of them, therefore there wouldn't be a Usurper. However, there is a very good chance of there being a Beloved Princess due to the fact that Princess Peach exists).

I'm totally unfamiliar with Pokemon, aside from some first gen stuff, so there's no way I could make a call on the likelihood. Either way, creative liberties can be taken with the role and name combinations.

...Where I was directly addressed about how I should keep in mind what characters will be in the game? You mean I shouldn't state that I have no ability to do so? Furthermore, are you suggesting that I keep this in mind with previous things I've said and try to keep some kind of story straight, instead of dynamically posting and replying to each thing individually? If I was trying to avoid saying something that might sound kind of a little unlike something I said before, that would be scummy. I don't need to keep my story straight if I'm not scum.

EBWODP: Augh, first quote should read like this:

Most things in that are just you rambling to cover your tell, which is exactly why I didn't want to show what I'd found yet. These are the two parts I saw that need further elaboration after the shat you just spat.

No. That is just a plain out lie. You say "I'm not going to participate in this random voting crap blah blah blah" and sure, if that was all it was then I wouldn't care. But, you then continue to say that you're not going to participate at all, and you're just going to watch until the thread moves on. Meaning you're not going to post. And you post three times telling us you're not going to post about it. However you want to lie about it now, that is what you posted at the time and that is the contradiction you put yourself in. And if you look at the underlined part; again a lie, you were not conversing with anyone. The first page is there for all to see. Those posts were quoted in their entirety. The second one could be a reply to HoT, but it's more like "lol udon'tkeepupwitholdgames insult, restatement of what I've already said." You simply said you aren't going to participate (you're not really talking or replying to anyone) multiple times. Once would have been fine, we would have known why you weren't participating. Three times is scummish overkill so we don't suspect you.

 

[arkvoodle]

Most things in that are just you rambling to cover your tell, which is exactly why I didn't want to show what I'd found yet. These are the two parts I saw that need further elaboration after the shat you just spat.

No. That is just a plain out lie. You say "I'm not going to participate in this random voting crap blah blah blah" and sure, if that was all it was then I wouldn't care. But, you then continue to say that you're not going to participate at all, and you're just going to watch until the thread moves on. Meaning you're not going to post. And you post three times telling us you're not going to post about it. However you want to lie about it now, that is what you posted at the time and that is the contradiction you put yourself in. And if you look at the underlined part; again a lie, you were not conversing with anyone. The first page is there for all to see. Those posts were quoted in their entirety. The second one could be a reply to HoT, but it's more like "lol udon'tkeepupwitholdgames insult, restatement of what I've already said." You simply said you aren't going to participate (you're not really talking or replying to anyone) multiple times. Once would have been fine, we would have known why you weren't participating. Three times is scummish overkill so we don't suspect you.

Although you do have a point about Axle contradicting himself, it isnt a particularly scummish detail. Refusing to participate isn't scummish, it's just stupid. Why would you play but not participate? But, he is participating.

His posts did contradict slightly, but as I said above, the simple contradictions are not a huge scumtell. RVSing is stupid, he was against that. Point made.

Now, contradictions aside, your arguement is quite hounding, Jeazy. Hounding in the sense that you seemingly can't wait to drive Axle into the ground. Do you have any particular evidence that Axle is scum?

 

[Justeazy]

Justeazy, you're being bizarrely vindictive and challenging at this point, which is a miraculous change in your attitude from before.

Yeah, I do admit I'm acting harsh, and for the attitude I apologize. On top of other (non mafia-related but attitude-changing) things, I was being called out as RVSing when I clearly stated that that's not what I was doing, as if everything I say is a lie regardless of my (known or unknown) position. Though for what I have done itself I make no such apologies.

Alright, first, you can claim it's a lie but in the end that's only your assumption, one that is not based on anything but personal opinion. I told you what the intention of those messages were, and I said it honestly. Please, please, honestly tell me what secret scum action was hidden in those messages? And moreover, please tell me why you expect that one of the best Mafia players would slip up on the first page of the thread for absolutely no reason, when there was no advantage to even try to deceive or distract anyone yet? Why would I try to distract people who were already distracted? Even saying that you're right about it being suspicious, it doesn't make any sense. Seriously look at it again and explain the logic to me, please.

No need to patronize me.
True, that is my interpretation of those messages, but could you please please honestly tell me how "I'm just going to sit back and watch until we move on" can mean "I'm going to repeatedly state my position whenever the opportunity presents itself." What you said and what you did at the time was contradicting. That was my entire point. I can't read your mind, I know not your actual intentions (or else I would know for a fact if you were scum ) I can just see the fallacies in your posts and vote based off of that. Coming back after I point it out and clarifying it doesn't erase what you had already done.

Wait, wait, wait, you mean this?

...Where I was directly addressed about how I should keep in mind what characters will be in the game? You mean I shouldn't state that I have no ability to do so? Furthermore, are you suggesting that I keep this in mind with previous things I've said and try to keep some kind of story straight, instead of dynamically posting and replying to each thing individually? If I was trying to avoid saying something that might sound kind of a little unlike something I said before, that would be scummy. I don't need to keep my story straight if I'm not scum.

Yes, that is what I mean. But you weren't directly addressed; he specifically said "and this goes for everyone" (it's in your quote). It wasn't directed at you personally, but you shot it down and the conversation stopped there. I'm not an expert on the characters in Pokemon, but instead of saying "this isn't a good conversation for me because I can't participate" I simply let others say what they wanted and read what was posted instead of stopping the conversation. (And if I could participate in it I would have continued that conversation after you stopped it, as I think it is productive.)

And I admit it wasn't your fault that everyone else stopped talking about it, but with all your bragging about being "one of the best Mafia players" one would think you would realize when you have the power to stop a conversation dead. And when you were the one who instigated the conversation then it leads me to the question "Was he trying to stop it because it was getting somewhere he didn't want it to go, or does he really think of and advertise his skill in these games but not have the skill to realize the power his reputation has."
So it's either a you-did-it-on-purpose, or you-don't-realize-what-you're-doing type of thing. And as everyone here seems to think you have this game down pat I assumed they were right, and thus the only logical conclusion I saw was that there is a reason you wanted it stopped and you stopped it when you could.


Ark, this should answer your post nicely:

My vote stands. That's all the evidence I had when I voted (to be fair the last bit was after I voted, but still; he's had even more suspicious posts but not more contradictions that I caught (he's probably being more careful after I called him out)). It wasn't really overwhelming but it was some evidence nonetheless. Until I see something that makes me want to change my vote, upon Axle it will rest, as not voting is pointless.

 

[Jimmy]

Now, contradictions aside, your arguement is quite hounding, Jeazy. Hounding in the sense that you seemingly can't wait to drive Axle into the ground. Do you have any particular evidence that Axle is scum?

Well yes, the evidence is the contradiction. Town players should find it easy not to contradict themselves because they have nothing to hide besides the roles they may have (and even then it's mainly the Cop who might come off as over-eager to defend/accuse someone because of info they only have privy to). I'm not saying this to defend justeazy though, ark's post made me think he's trying to cause some confusion - whether or not Axle is scum this question is spurious.

FoS: Ark

 

[Keyshe]

Things have gotten a little convoluted and it's very confusing to me. I am trying to keep up though. I've been trying to understand what's been going on, though it's been hard. Especially because of Axle's attitude... :/

My original discussion and questioning with Axle wasn't about him being scummy, but simply not making sense. It was an issue on technicalities and game mechanics...
He only looked scummy after the discussion started and on the HoM/Justeazy issue. Truth be told I have no idea why he was so snide, dismissive, and irritated with me not understanding his posts... and trying to get to the bottom of it. I was kind of hurt that he was doing that. To me there is no benefit for him to do that as town or even mafia really. Unless he is thinking he can intimated me away from even posting against him... ever. Which is poor planing. Last time he did this to me he was mafia, on something just as minor. The only thing that seemed scummy on our Oak-thing is in the last post to me.

Quote Originally Posted by Axle the Beast View Post
Say what you like. I'm still pretty skeptical either character will appear as a role in this game.

What possible hidden motive could this have had? I'll admit it's obvious I've worded things strangely so far, but given that most of my posts were written in a rush late at night, that's to be expected. I'll try to word things clearer, but jesus, read that post again and honestly tell me what's suspicious about it. What about it vaguely suggests non-Town?]/b[

I would say this is key evidence and a real slip up... I NEVER said I thought he was suspicious on this. HE is saying it... How/why would he misunderstand my posts from addressing a confusion to me calling him scummy?! Those are two very different things... He is saying he's not being scummy with out him being called out...

I have seen other contradictions then the ones you guys have brought up. This is a big one. As town he has always advocated not to blindly trust him, but to allow doubt. (Game 4 as example) Even encourages it, only refutes poor logic (not attacks and discrediting). But as scum he attacks accusations and doubts hard (VT One Piece mafia) I can link to the posts if you guys want. This one I brought up and Axle ignored it. I pointed out his response to Justeazy was a little more heavy handed then it warranted. Plus other thing that didn't add up. Which he side stepped all my points on these contradicting facts. My post. His. You can see here he picks the part he wanted, ignoring my post and the context it is used in. Not even confronting me and the issue, bypassing my whole post. Plus used as much intimidation as he could to discredit and scare me off. This is scum Axle 100%.


Another big contradiction, is that he votes for HoM with a very weak reason, even states it is later in game. However in the same post he paints a very incriminating picture that there is much more wrong and scummy from Justeazy. His vote does not make sense with his own stated reasoning. It was also a little sudden and out of the blue, like he needed to look more town. HoM had been being disused for a little while and only when Axle had 3 vote, did he turn things on HoM

Axle as scum does not want to die, but as town he cares a lot less. This is key to his metas. Since vote 3 (Justeazy) he's been posting like he is fighting his for his life. The majority lynch number is 14, wasn't even close. A little too concerned then he needed to be. He had been encouraging people to vote just before, but had a problem when it was on him. Plus has the view that you don't need a lot of solid evidence to warrant a vote Here he even said so in the middle of all this. Okay so Justeazy vote was a little weak, but Axle is okay with this normally just not when it's on him. He is contradicting his beliefs and statements all over this game and playing just like he did when I caught him as scum.

Vote: Axle

@Justeazy
Yes I was supportive of you in the that even though you are inexperienced, you are still a descent player. You are smart and look things over + analyzes. I found it odd that Axle seemed to be implying that your inexperience would lead to you doing a newbie mafia mistake.

He could just be that kind of player, but it also seems like inexperienced
Mafia framing. Was Castlevania Mafia the first Mafia game Justeazy played? I can't
remember if he played earlier.

Oh and I would still like Bay to answer if she is town this game

 

[DeletedUser9]

Yes, that is what I mean. But you weren't directly addressed; he specifically said "and this goes for everyone" (it's in your quote). It wasn't directed at you personally, but you shot it down and the conversation stopped there. I'm not an expert on the characters in Pokemon, but instead of saying "this isn't a good conversation for me because I can't participate" I simply let others say what they wanted and read what was posted instead of stopping the conversation. (And if I could participate in it I would have continued that conversation after you stopped it, as I think it is productive.)

If someone quotes me, they are addressing me, even if their point is additionally aimed at other people. When someone addresses me directly I will respond, and I will respond honestly. I understand that I may have stunted that conversation without realizing it, but I don't intend to hold back and not be straightforward. If you say something to me then I will respond directly and honestly.

The fact is that I regarded the idea that a certain role can't exist because there is no character who strictly fits it destructive to the Town, at least if it's considered to be solid fact. An alternative idea needed to be proposed, because if we rule out roles that could still appear, then we're in trouble.

Another big contradiction, is that he votes for HoM with a very weak reason, even states it is later in game. However in the same post he paints a very incriminating picture that there is much more wrong and scummy from Justeazy. His vote does not make sense with his own stated reasoning. It was also a little sudden and out of the blue, like he needed to look more town. HoM had been being disused for a little while and only when Axle had 3 vote, did he turn things on HoM

I've stated this before: I had one vote. Justeazy's. The other two were RVS votes, or at the very least I regarded and still regard both of them as RVS votes.

Axle as scum does not want to die, but as town he cares a lot less. This is key to his metas. Since vote 3 (Justeazy) he's been posting like he is fighting his for his life. The majority lynch number is 14, wasn't even close. A little too concerned then he needed to be. He had been encouraging people to vote just before, but had a problem when it was on him. Plus has the view that you don't need a lot of solid evidence to warrant a vote Here he even said so in the middle of all this. Okay so Justeazy vote was a little weak, but Axle is okay with this normally just not when it's on him. He is contradicting his beliefs and statements all over this game and playing just like he did when I caught him as scum.

That is true and I won't deny how it looks here, but you also need to realize that pretty much every game my attitude has shifted. This includes as Mafia. Keyshe, I only did that to you as Mafia in one game, and it clearly was an ineffective tactic. I only did it in Batman Mafia with Jo, if I recall, and that's because she was a claimed Cop and was a direct and immediate threat. In my first game as Mafia on LoZ.com, I didn't do that much at all.

My townie meta has shifted every game as well. And I have also only had one game since... well, LoZ.com... where I got to fully participate for any length, and that was Batman Mafia. Every other game I've died in early, or had to quit because of time. You can pretty much guarantee that as that happens, my interest in dying is going to keep decreasing, Town or otherwise.

Yes I was supportive of you in the that even though you are inexperienced, you are still a descent player. You are smart and look things over + analyzes. I found it odd that Axle seemed to be implying that your inexperience would lead to you doing a newbie mafia mistake.

He is a skilled player, but I've seen players perform incredibly well their first game or two, then show afterwards that they are still fairly inexperienced and make a fair amount of mistakes. I don't want to rule that out as a possibility with Justeazy.

 

[Kybyrian]

Hero of Music 6 (Josh, Elfen, Durion, Axle the Beast, Kazumi, Dracomajora)
Axle the Beast 5 (Keyshe, Go_Dark_Link, Justeazy, TreeHuggerPanda, jdenicholls)
Danny 1 (Austin)
Soldier of Link 1 (Jedizora)
Austin 1 (Master Kokiri 9)
Master Kokiri 9 1 (Soldier of Link)
kokirion 1 (Baysiderulez)

Yet to Vote 10 (kokirion, Danny, Deku Shroom, green goron, Hero of Music, Djinn, Meego, Ninten*, arkvoodle, Hero of Time)

Day ends July 2nd. 26 alive, 14 for majority lynch. You may reach it if you keep it up.

 

[Justeazy]

Axle, you're not that stupid, and acting as such now isn't helping your case. The quote that that paragraph followed was on one sentence, when you speculated a Usurper may be in, and he speculated that it may not. Then there was a period, ending the part when he was talking directly to you. And if that wasn't obvious enough, what with the change of subject between sentences and all, he then specifically stated that it wasn't directed at you and instead was directed at everyone. Yet you chose to ignore the part he was saying to you and you chose to only reply to the part that was to everyone. Again, leading back to the "did he kill the conversation on purpose for some sinister end" question.

Kind of defeats the purpose of starting a new sentence (granted he could have started a new paragraph, but it's not really a necessity) if you don't see that it's on a different subject. You're smart enough to read that he specifically said that the statement wasn't directed at you. And even if he hadn't, you're smart enough to realize a change in subject and purpose between multiple sentences. Kind of like the next sentence in this paragraph. On top of other things, I also seem to have noticed that the voting patterns have changed since I gave my input.

This is the kind of change I'm seeing:

Axle the Beast 2 (TreeHuggerPanda, Hero of Time)
Danny 2 (Hero of Music, Austin)
Baysiderulez 2 (Josh, Soldier of Link)
Ninten* 1 (Elfen)
Soldier of Link 1 (Jedizora)
Austin 1 (Master Kokiri 9)

As far as I know, every one is a RVS. Spread out as nobody had noticed much suspicious.

Hero of Music 6 (Josh, Elfen, Durion, Axle the Beast, Kazumi, Dracomajora)
Axle the Beast 5 (Keyshe, Go_Dark_Link, Justeazy, TreeHuggerPanda, jdenicholls)
Danny 1 (Austin)
Soldier of Link 1 (Jedizora)
Austin 1 (Master Kokiri 9)
Master Kokiri 9 1 (Soldier of Link)
kokirion 1 (Baysiderulez)

Six on HoM started after I pointed out something strange, and five on Axle (THP's is the only one that still may be an RVS) started after I noticed his behavior. Mostly concentrated voting.

Is this a good thing?

 

[Pocket Asian]

Sorry, ran into some things. Just letting you know that I'm still interested in playing. I'll probably be caught up sometime tomorrow.

 

[Meego]

Okay well I don't have much time on my hands right now, I'll post more later.

However....

I think I'm going to have to look back over Axle and HoM, they can't both be mafia so there's a chance a townie will be lynched this time. Obviously they could both be town, in that case the possibility is even higher. There are things about them that make them both seem possible townies. HoM just seems to have a somewhat assertive playstyle, but Axle comes back with lots of evidence. Hmm, I will come back to this after school but it would seem that at least one of them has to be town, I think. If not, then both of them. That is what I will have to look over. I'm not sure mafia would make themselves this well "notcied" in a bad way this early on in the game, but you know, I could be wrong. This being said, both Axle and HoM have plently of votes.

IGMEOY: HoM and Axle

Just to clarify, I am trying to determine your alignments at least.

 

[Baysiderulez]

Oh and I would still like Bay to answer if she is town this game

Lol if you asked that before my last post i must have missed it... if its was after my last post then I just now saw this..

Yes, I am Town. I want a townie win, and I want the mafia and any 3rd parties there might be dead. Revealing characters at this point in the game would be useless... But since when have I led you astray Keysh?

 

[Go_Dark_Link]

Well my suspicions have definitely changed since the last time I posted. Axle's has decreased ever so slightly, seeing as he IS providing a lot of evidence and maybe it is just me, but I would hope for him to be town, since he could really help us in winning this game, BUT, he still could be scum. Also, I haven't had any suspicions on HoM yet, because in my opinion his "claim" if it can even be called that, was just a random thing that didn't have much meaning whatsoever, but people just started making something out of nothing. Finally, I am now suspicious of Justeazy, because even if Axle did make some mistakes, he explained why that was and Justeazy just keeps attacking him for the same things, over and over, pushing for his lynch. It could just be that he really has a hunch on him and wants to get his point of view across, or it may be that he is actually scum who would really like Axle taken care of this early in the game so as to not have to worry about him later. I also have a stronger believe towards the second theory because it looks like this would be a perfect chance for scum to attack Axle, because they could easily say they weren't the only ones attacking him, and if we were to lynch someone else like HoM, who turned out to be town, then they can say: "See? That's why I didn't vote for him because I'm town and I felt he was town! Now let's all vote for the one I thought was scum!" (who would then turn out to be town as well)

So with that said, my vote on Axle remains, but only cause I can't vote twice. For now though, I will lay a heavy IGMEOY: Justeazy. Also, I apologize if my post was written confusingly or weirdly, or if it didn't make sense, or if it was lacking quotes, but I wrote this at 2:30 a.m and I was really tired. Perhaps I shall come back in the morning and check through or add quotes.

 

[Jimmy]

I think Keyshe's post is especially well reasoned, and I'd encourage people to have a close read of that when deciding who to vote for. Since this is the first day it is likely we will be lynching one of the big players of the game (ie one who is very active and creates long posts) rather than one of the passive players hiding in the background. So today will likely end with HoM or Axle being lynched.

Regarding GDL's post above, justeazy would be very silly to adopt such a tactic. Anyone who hs played a couple of games of mafia knows that scum will be involved in the lynching of both innocent and mafia players, and just because you opposed to vote of an innocent player in no way clears you of any scumminess. I'm assuming you are a new player because I haven't seen you around much, but if someone were to use that line of reasoning they'd probably be lynched.

One question Ky, do we have to reach a majority before the day ends or is there a time limit and then the person with the most votes gets it?

 

[Kirino]

I'mm voting for Axle. There are some contradictions in his posts, and he seems pretty desperate to live. Also, Justeazy is a bit suspicious, but not that much. He's probably only trying to get his point across, or just getting evidence that he wants to point out, buy he seems pretty determined.

Vote:Axle

EBWODP: Sorry. Forgot to unvote.

Unvote
Vote: Axle

 

[David]

So today will likely end with HoM or Axle being lynched.

That's just sad.... Axle and I are pretty strong players, and most of me thinks that he's town. (Well, feelings mostly) But, I am town. I really am.

Does no one see my claim? As to who I am? I think that someone said that I know something about the Elite Four. Well, technically, I do. But, it is more than just knowing something about them. (Yeah, that should do it for now. Let people actually think now.) And again, I only claimed for the lulz, not because of pressure.

One question Ky, do we have to reach a majority before the day ends or is there a time limit and then the person with the most votes gets it?

There's a time limit. The day ends on the 2nd. I'm pretty certain that whoever has the most will be lynched. (Which is currently me and Axle at a tie...)

Hey Soldier of Link. Come and post, kay? You're pretty suspicious, making all of them trollish comments and then NEVER RETURNING, even though I know you've been online. Oh and agreeing randomly, voting, posting pictures, itty bitty comments, unwarranted votes with no backing, and the like.

Here are all of her posts for you guys to look at in order from oldest to youngest.

http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showt...A-Pok%E9mafia-Game-Thread&p=283915#post283915 (Her "First" post)
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showt...A-Pok%E9mafia-Game-Thread&p=284046#post284046 (Troll post)
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showt...A-Pok%E9mafia-Game-Thread&p=284119#post284119 (Agreeing with Josh and voting for Jo)
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showt...A-Pok%E9mafia-Game-Thread&p=284147#post284147 (Another Troll post completely irrelevant to the game)
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showt...A-Pok%E9mafia-Game-Thread&p=284151#post284151 (Another post that has nothing to do with the game)
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showt...A-Pok%E9mafia-Game-Thread&p=284161#post284161 (trys to encourage some scumhunting, but does none herself)
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showt...A-Pok%E9mafia-Game-Thread&p=284353#post284353 (Votes MK9 with no reason, states she knows nothing about Pokemon, then does a "b'awwww" for Meego's post)

And that's all of her posts. Suspicious, yes?

Unvote (If I didn't already)
Vote: Soldier of Link