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Game Thread Guess Your Role: Poke Ball Z Mafia (BMGf/ZD Crossover Event) Endgame: TBA, Town and Survivor Win! (11/7/19)

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ExLight

why
Forum Volunteer
:ghello:
Gooood morning!

I don't care what your intentions are. Using your ability again would, literally, be the stupidest possible thing you could do.
:pikalove:
How can you guarantee that we're not going to be easily manipulated by mafia during the next day?

You know, this could've gone way worse. I almost wore a Darth pfp and changed names last night phase. I was going to try to convince you that we should target each other last night... could've been you instead of Max today. We wouldn't even know which one was the Gladiator. And you'd prolly have convinced town to get me lynched because I'd be a mini Darth. :suspicious:

I can't handle this
Handle what.
 

Maniacal Engineer

Conspiracy Theorist
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Location
The Watchtower
You know, this could've gone way worse. I almost wore a Darth pfp and changed names last night phase. I was going to try to convince you that we should target each other last night... could've been you instead of Max today. We wouldn't even know which one was the Gladiator. And you'd prolly have convinced town to get me lynched because I'd be a mini Darth.
In a gladiator matchup you vs. ME, I'd have gotten lynched. No Questions asked. It's already been said numerous times that I'm a good policy lynch.

How can you guarantee that we're not going to be easily manipulated by mafia during the next day?
No guarantees can be made, but Town would rather not be manipulated by Town, either. It doesn't matter who is doing the manipulating, said manipulating is bad.
At the very least, if scum is doing the manipulating, Town has a choice and a say in the matter. If you use your role, that's it. There is no choice.

You say that you're upset because we ended D3 24 hours early, when we could have had another 24 hours of discussion, and yet it was your role that cuts off Town's ability to discuss things by not presenting them with a choice.

Pretty much every single living player in this game has said that they do not want you to use your ability.
Yes, definitionally, that includes scum, but, equally as definitionally, that includes town.

Listen to your goddamned teammates, for crying out loud!
 

ExLight

why
Forum Volunteer
@VIGILANTE (IF WE HAVE ONE), if you target Town tonight we might lose, so if you're going to risk it, target someone that you have something strong reason to suspect.

At the very least, if scum is doing the manipulating, Town has a choice and a say in the matter. If you use your role, that's it. There is no choice.
...hmmm :suspicious:
I kinda agree with what you're saying. But without sharing info I can't see how Town will be able to point out their lies if they come up.

Let's say I agree in not using my role, but if the next day really turns out to be a LyLo, how will town counter a false report to frame someone? Or a false massclaim with unlikely Towny roles?
If Mafia causes two major misleading wagons it's over. If Town isn't active it's over. If Town can't decide over multiple wagons it's over.

Town needs to discuss this urgently. If we're not able to come with a plan I don't see why I should believe Town's judgment.

Horray, I figured it out.
Nice, I was about to ask you if you did.
 

Rubik

King of Lorule Lounge
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I think it's more likely that a town that isn't restricted on who to vote for and has knowledge of tonight's night actions is more likely to hit scum than you are tonight using what information is currently available.

I'd also rather lose from collectively messing up the lynch than from you forcing us to vote for someone who ends up being town.
 

HeroOfTime

Challenger Approaching!
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Hyrule
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Mail
Okay, so obviously I don't want the vig to target a townie in a perfect world, but isn't ex's statement a little dramatic? Assuming four mafia, it's 14/4, even if there were three kills we would still be outnumbering them 11/4. Worst case scenario. Why would that mean we instantly lose?
 

Morbid Minish

Spooky Scary Skeleton.
Forum Volunteer

I was binging some of the new season of Stranger Things!

I have personal reasons to doubt Minish at this point. I know she's looking pretty townie right now, but I'm like 65% sure I know her role. I'm going to keep quiet about it for now and see how tonight goes. @Morbid Minish, can I ask you who you targeted last night and if you know your role, not what it is.

Tomorrow I’d be up for lynching LG, funnier or ME (as policy lynches). Maybe Zinn if someone else has a convincing case against them.

Yeah, I do know my role. I'd rather keep my actions from last night to myself for now since something happened with it so I want to see if I can figure out what that was first.

Zinn and minish

Why are you scared of me Moe? :(



I have some new thoughts on people. I'll try to get together a new reads list soon.
 

ExLight

why
Forum Volunteer
I think it's more likely that a town that (...) has knowledge of tonight's night actions.
Like what? What did Town learn from the last two nights? We got NOTHING. And even if we did, why refusing to share it? They are at the risk of getting night killed tonight and dying without sharing their important info. And I hate that people are thinking that it's better to keep it to themselves.

Okay, so obviously I don't want the vig to target a townie in a perfect world, but isn't ex's statement a little dramatic? Assuming four mafia, it's 14/4, even if there were three kills we would still be outnumbering them 11/4. Worst case scenario. Why would that mean we instantly lose?
I'm not sure why you're assuming that Indepts will side with Town when winning with mafia seems much more guaranteed for them.

Assuming that we have 2 harmless indepts, Town will be at LyLo (7T/4M/2I) after mafia's kill.
Assuming that we have 1 Serial Killer, Town will be at (6T/4M/2I) after tonight. Mafia and SK can focus in controlling Town during the Day and killing the rest during the Night.
Assuming we have 3 killing roles and all of them cause townkills, Town will be at (5T/4M/2I) and we pretty much already lost.
 

ZinnLav

Zinnie-chan
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Location
Bulbagarden
Like what? What did Town learn from the last two nights? We got NOTHING. And even if we did, why refusing to share it? They are at the risk of getting night killed tonight and dying without sharing their important info. And I hate that people are thinking that it's better to keep it to themselves.
Let's say half of all the players know their role and that of those half, Mafia know theirs. Now it's only Night 3 now, we have almost no info to work on even if we've gotten results. Especially with these crazy roles like town Role Cop & town Silencer, who'd believe them?
 

Rubik

King of Lorule Lounge
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Like what? What did Town learn from the last two nights? We got NOTHING. And even if we did, why refusing to share it? They are at the risk of getting night killed tonight and dying without sharing their important info. And I hate that people are thinking that it's better to keep it to themselves.
We've basically confirmed like ~4 players as town.

We might discover scum or clear another townie in the night. Meanwhile, the number of unknowns in the game gets smaller and smaller as people claim and prove their roles.
 

Maniacal Engineer

Conspiracy Theorist
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Location
The Watchtower
We might discover scum or clear another townie in the night. Meanwhile, the number of unknowns in the game gets smaller and smaller as people claim and prove their roles.
@ExLight this is how the game is played. Not under gunpoint by one single townie.

But, you're also missing the information that Town has gained the past several phases.

We have a known Cop with two town checks.
We have a dead Town role cop that seems to confirm that a living player is harmless.
We have an outed Neighborizer and Gladiator, both of which are far more likely Town roles and one of whom has a town check on him from the Cop.

There are still people that need to be confirmed, and there is still a lot of work to do, but no game gets solved instantly, especially one like this, where the setup is already confusing as hell.
Let the process do its work.
Town must make its own decisions, as a whole. And yes, some of those decisions could be influenced by scum or hostile indeps, that's the risk of the game, but it is a lot more difficult for scum to influence multiple people when all options are on the table than when there is only a limited number of options, with on of those options being a town member.
What if you target Moe tonight, but Max comes back with a scumcheck on a different player from N3? What if Moe is Town?

Look, WCS, if literally no information pops up and there is nowhere to go, I offer myself as a policy lynch. No Questions asked, but don't force that, either.
 

ExLight

why
Forum Volunteer
We have a dead Town role cop that seems to confirm that a living player is harmless.
Ooh, I forgot about that. It only makes Moe's chances of being scum even higher tho.

What if you target Moe tonight, but Max comes back with a scumcheck on a different player from N3? What if Moe is Town?
Yea, this thought is something that has been eating me alive here.
That's why I'm pretty much begging for Town to share info that might clear some players.

Look, WCS, if literally no information pops up and there is nowhere to go, I offer myself as a policy lynch. No Questions asked, but don't force that, either.
Ah, this is actually a really interesting offer. If we assume you really don't know your alignment the chances of you being not-town are the same as Moe's. I... I'll really consider this.
 

Maniacal Engineer

Conspiracy Theorist
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Location
The Watchtower
Ah, this is actually a really interesting offer. If we assume you really don't know your alignment the chances of you being not-town are the same as Moe's. I... I'll really consider this.
Like I said, don't use your Gladiator role to force it, but the offer is on the table for Town to consider on D4.
 

Rubik

King of Lorule Lounge
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Location
California
Gender
Horsehead
We, collectively, will have more information to work with in the morning after our abilities have resolved than you individually do right now. Don't pidgeonhole us into hitting a player because you don't like that he doesn't want to share his targets yet (because it's possible that he has a reason).

If he doesn't share his targets and doesn't give a good reason tomorrow it's decently likely he'll get lynched even without your ability.

Please don't use it. We only have a single day of voting records to analyze and that's possiblity my favorite way to scumhunt. You have the ability to deny town the ability to analyze votes and turn this into a guessing game, basically.
 
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