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Do you think Christmas is a commercial holiday now?

Jirohnagi

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Just an opinion query really.

But for me in the last few years with all the business' putting more pressure on christmas sales and all i feel christmas is losing it's charm, we don't see things as festive but as an opportunity to get something cheap. The food for christmas seems to suddenly become more expensive as well while looking like it's a good deal.

All in all i can't shake the feeling Christmas will turn into valentines day something all about the gifts and not the festivites or anything.
 

pyjamas5189

Secretly a cat
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Sounds corny but I genuinely think Christmas is in the heart and is what you make of it. Yes businesses push to get their sales but that doesn't mean that the festivities you normally have have to die does it? They're all wasted on me anyway I started Christmas shopping back in October before all the sales lol
 

Djinn

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Pretty sure it was a commercial holiday over 50 years ago. Now it's just the aspect of our culture that keeps most businesses afloat.


But, at the same time, is that really a terrible thing? Is it absolutely a bad thing that we celebrate gift giving as an aspect of the holiday which includes even most secular homes and families?
 
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I highly reccomend the Charlie Brown Christmas special from the mid 60's, which covers this topic beautifully despite the religious overtones.
 

Misty

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Yes, I think it is almost entirely a commercial enterprise at this point. And before that it was an attempt to overtake one religion by another. And before that it was a pagan holiday.

If you're asking me to make a judgement about that fact, then keep in mind this isn't exactly like...a moral judgement or something to that nature:

Everyone knows and if you don't, hey, nice rock you have there, that suicides go up around holidays and particularly go up around Christmas. Theory crafting leads to two conclusions on my part: people feel more alone during the holidays and people see the deeply shallow the average person's expression of love for fellow humans is and this drives them to off themselves.

Now the first is obvious really, and a true tragedy. The fact is, not everyone has someone for the holidays or in their daily life, but during points when the message of love, togetherness, and family is like the gay bdsm pride parade (loud and proud) tends to have the effect of harming those who are alone. It's a blameless tragedy really.

But the commercial aspect is far more sinister and subtle. It's sorta like facebook likes and feeling as if one is an interesting and worthwhile person. If gifts and cards and party invites are suddenly the very real currency by which affection and love are expressed, then money ultimately becomes both actually and metaphorically the currency by which love is expressed.

And whether you buy into it or not, I think we can all mostly agree on some fundamental level, we wish to believe that love and the expression of love goes far beyond a dollar sign. (The idea of prostitution is not far off in my mind as I say this.) There is something intrinsically icky and wrong seeming about expressing togetherness, love, appreciation, and sincerity via spending money.

And don't get me wrong, I'm sure almost all of you were thoughtful with your gifts to the people you love most. And really, that's so great and I'm so happy for you. But think about this truly: how would you show your family and your significant other and close friends you loved them if the spending of money for goods and services were off the table? Maybe words. Maybe you'd make them something with your own hands. Maybe you'd take them for a walk and compare their existence to a tree full of beautiful winter birds to show them the beauty and splendor they bring into your life every day. I don't even know the creativity that would be on display for that it would be so great. But instead, you can get them a starbucks gift card because they love starbucks and you always go there and aren't they and you and starbucks lovely.

And maybe on some level this is fine...except that if you think about it, gifts are always the way we say someone is special. Objects. Physical junk we paid way too much for. It isn't just Christmas. It's everything. Christmas is the big, gaudy flagship of the whole idea in the first place. But it's the air we breathe at this point. Saying I love you sincerely without a card or some knick knack is unthinkable. And to return to my suicide point which seems lost now, I think for some people, realizing that they live in a world where almost no one will be able to express their true love and appreciation without target or the mall is so disheartening and depressing that a quick fall and splat seems...better?

As if that weren't enough, there is then the fact so much of it is shallow in service to apparently expressing something true. The decor, the big meal, the wrapped gifts, the trees, etc being paired with family togetherness. Maybe my family is the only dysfunctional one on the planet, but suddenly we're all so cheery and pretend nice for Christmas. We pretend that this isn't the fifth time this year we've all seen each other because my dad feels unloved and rejected by his parents. We pretend this isn't the third time we've seen my mum's parents because her mum is a nosy wench who disrespects my father and I so regularly that he banned her from his house and very nearly refused to let her see her grandchildren ever. We pretend this isn't the only time we see our cousins because we're nothing alike and a disconnected family. My brother and his girlfriend come over and act as if there isn't a huge rift between them and my family. We go home and pretend that my mother and father didn't fight over having christmas in the first place because he hates it and she used to like it. We pretend we pretend we pretend. Because it's christmas mother****ers. We're all supposed to be together and happy and loving and peace on ****ing earth let's eat some ham.

It's all a really nice package on a big fat lie. And why is the lie there? Because we all really need a chance to remember to love each other? Got some bitter pills for you. If you aren't expressing in subtle gestures and true words every day the fact you like the people in your life...maybe you should start that and stop waiting for an arbitrarily chosen cultural money making machine day to do it. And if you are....welll...you really need one more day for it all that includes chocolate snowmen in ugly sweaters riding reindeer and lying to children about a fat home invader?

Your move, Kirk Cameron.
 
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Jirohnagi

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Sounds corny but I genuinely think Christmas is in the heart and is what you make of it. Yes businesses push to get their sales but that doesn't mean that the festivities you normally have have to die does it? They're all wasted on me anyway I started Christmas shopping back in October before all the sales lol

I start shopping normally July time because it takes from July to December to ger everything cuz my family's favorite saying is "I don't know"

@Misty In terms of thoughtfullness i end up helping or soloing christmas dinner these days T.T but damn Mist you nailed that to the tree and executed it ^^, you're righht on the mark.
 
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Just an opinion query really.

But for me in the last few years with all the business' putting more pressure on christmas sales and all i feel christmas is losing it's charm, we don't see things as festive but as an opportunity to get something cheap. The food for christmas seems to suddenly become more expensive as well while looking like it's a good deal.

All in all i can't shake the feeling Christmas will turn into valentines day something all about the gifts and not the festivites or anything.

yeah chistmans is lie any other holiday in America. It's all about sales and merchandise now.
 

Jirohnagi

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yeah chistmans is lie any other holiday in America. It's all about sales and merchandise now.

It's kinda depressing everyone puts so much emphasis on the products. I can't really say i'm perfect because over the years the festivities got smaller and all. Christ things are messed up.
 
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It's kinda depressing everyone puts so much emphasis on the products. I can't really say i'm perfect because over the years the festivities got smaller and all. Christ things are messed up.

And the black friday death tolls prove how messed up tings are.
 

Beauts

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I think in many ways it is a commercial holiday but tbh, so is every holiday at this point. I actually heard someone speak the other day (I don't remember who now) but they were talking about how commercialism is the new religion. Like, people celebrate 'stuff' rather than say events or festivals in the sense they did when religion dominated thought. That's why there are so many hallmark holidays like Valentines Day and stuff.
 

Misty

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@Misty In terms of thoughtfullness i end up helping or soloing christmas dinner these days

Yeah, and I know a lot of peeps who do this and very thoughtful stuff. It's all really heartwarming in a way. Like, I've enjoyed Christmas before. You could easily read what I said and get this sense I never have. But as a kid, I remember it being really very fun. And even as an adult, I've enjoyed thinking about what to get people or make them that would really be something they need or enjoy. I've solo'd a christmas dinner or two in my time.

It's just that it seems like everyone throws up their hands at the commercialism aspect and says "but who cares, it's all soooo fun!" Something about the way that gets shrugged off really rustles my jim jams because it's like refusing to see the dark side and the very real sort of awfulness that lays behind this bright happy mask and legit good time. Recognizing the badness and darkness in something doesn't have to end it. I mean, it has for my family and some others I know, but I think thoughtfulness about the whole affair and why we're doing it and if it is for the right reasons is always a good thing. It can also be termed "overthinking".
 

Jimmu

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To me Christmas does seem to be mostly commercial these days. Religion is not important in my life and most of my surrounding family and friends also feel the same, so the religious aspect of Christmas isn't at all important to me either. I do like that it is an excuse to meet with family still even if it a somewhat artificial and forced time of year, it is good to have an excuse to catch up in life which can be quite hectic.

For me personally, I do prefer giving and receiving more sentimental gifts but those seem to be better suited towards birthdays than Christmas due to the intense commercialisation of the holiday. Business has really hit the jackpot from the commercialisation of it.
 

Jamie

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@Misty while I do enjoy a healthy dose of cynicism I think Christmas has its positives.

For most people, it's time off work to spend with your family. It's rare for people to have any free time, most people can only make a few full days where they don't have to do anything at all. So, everyone in the family lines up their "do literally nothing" days together. It's not every day someone can fly thousands of kilometers for example; it's expensive. So people choose to do that for Christmas because they know everyone will be doing it. It's nice to have a day like that.

In terms of the commercialism, I think it's a bit of a shame in some senses. People are right in that we do not really express our love through non-commercial gestures as often now. But I will say for Christmas last year, while it did cost money, my brother and I got a very thoughtful gift for my dad and I think it was very special for him.

Objects are what we as humans use to occupy most of our time, it just so happens that objects cost money. I would love to have given my dad that gift which brought back many great memories for free, but it's impossible.

Buying things like Starbucks gift cards to me, while I do it because of the social obligation, really does seem like just that: an obligatory present with very little thought put into it. It's a shame that things have gotten that way in terms of you being required to give people gifts on a certain day. Perhaps it would be better if Christmas didn't have the gift giving so much involved in it and instead you gave gifts when you felt like it. I don't know. But all in all, I like Christmas.
 

pyjamas5189

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For most people, it's time off work to spend with your family.
Sadly I work nights at a 24 hour practice so not much time off but I have gone out of my way to re-organise my shifts so I can see certain members of my family that I dont really get to see at any other time of the year.
 

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