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Do you believe that platonic relationships are genuine?

Is platonic love/friendship genuine?

  • Yes they are!

    Votes: 22 78.6%
  • No, platonic relationships are bull****.

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • I...do not care.

    Votes: 4 14.3%

  • Total voters
    28

Misty

Ronin
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Location
The Sea
If that attraction is there though, can that relationship still be truly platonic?

I mean, to be that guy, it sorta depends how you interpret the definition of platonic and perhaps further out interpret the definition of friendship.

If you're defining platonic as a pervasive feeling, then wouldn't too the second you felt someone was attractive even if it passed have ruined the potential platonic relationship? And further, what if one were engaged in a particularly platonic relationship for years, but suddenly felt a brief draw due to their friend being particularly attractive that day, ruin forever a platonic relationship? That just seems like a very strange way of defining it that seems to purposefully fail to account both for how humans are.

I see platonic relationships as much more of an active choice between two people to pursue a relationship in which their sexual desire (which may or may not exist at all) is not primary or even on the list of reasons they retain connection. Thus my claim that friends who do have that attraction who do not act on it are clearly valuing a platonic relationship far more than people who never felt that urge in the first place.

The question of what is mutual is also an obvious muddy area. What if a boy is absolutely head over heels in fancy with me and I see him as simply a dear friend? (This has happened more than I care to recount. I may need a sign if this keeps up.) Does his lack of platonic feelings make it impossible for our relationship to be platonic? I don't actually know the answer, but I do think that what each individual intends is probably important. I can say for a fact that in one case, he confessed his feelings for me, I gently made clear I did not return this feeling but badly desired to remain friends, and he agreed our friendship was too special to ruin over that. We went on to maintain one of the best friendships I've ever had for nearly four years. I do not think the platonic relationship goes out the door the moment attraction comes into play. I just don't see things as that black and white or all or nothing.

As for why defining friendship is relevant, well, perhaps this will explain it. I myself, tend to go with the Aristotelian model that our friends are essentially aspects we take onto our own identity and that thus for one's friend to be harmed is for one's self to be harmed and all else that idea implies. Without defining what is attractive to me (that's a whole new can of worms), I think the following might explain why this is significant.

I hope I'm not being arrogant to say that I find myself quite attractive. I could list all of the reasons why, but like Rose in "Eight Cousins" it is sufficient to say that I do not think I'm horrible to behold, and even find my appearance quite pleasant to see. I find all that to be doubly or even more true about my personality and intellect. I would fall in love with me and want to um, ya know, the other thing me.

The friends I take on are, as I have said, new aspects of me. And while I may not find each physically attractive exactly or they aren't all lights out hotties, I would say that in each case, there is something or many things desperately attractive and romantic about each of them. There would have to be, otherwise why in the world would I take them on and love and protect them as I would myself?

Thus, I would argue in the cases where a strong friendship has developed, it would be nearly criminal of me not to recognize that which is attractive, sexually attractive and romantically significant about the people who are my friends and be attracted to it. It would be tantamount to an external self-esteem issue. It would be like looking in the mirror and thinking "no one will ever want that." Instead, I would argue it is proper to recognize and value such things, without letting them drive or particularly matter within the friendship.
 
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Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
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England
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Absolute unit
@Deus denotative definitions just describe generally agreed usages, such as our Merriam dictionary denoting lack of romance as platonic, but meanings and concepts we get from meanings really capture my interest.

- I believe one can have a relationship without sexual thoughts for their partner.

Deus, how often do you think this actually occurs?

Are we still on a straight male and female friendship here? I think if one is attracted to the other then they will have probably frequent sexual thoughts about them in the beginning but this will lessen with time if they believe nothing more will come of the relationship and they think about other options for a romantic partner.
 

Misty

Ronin
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Location
The Sea
Are we still on a straight male and female friendship here?
I've been talking about penguins the whole time because I'm not a bigot who limits the expression of platonic love to the straight or patriarch-capitalist-cis-white-upper-middle-class-binary gendered folk. I'm all about that inclusion.

No, but seriously, I'm a bit intrigued by this assumption that romance and sex are intrinsically linked. And that sexual thoughts are the hallmark of that. I don't tend to buy into that exactly. I mean, I do more than like 18 year old me who'd never had a relationship did, but not as much as what you say seems to imply.

I'm not totally sure what makes one relationship romantic and another platonic if it isn't sex, but I do think the difference has much more to do with the type and way of committing to another person. I tend to think that eros, while prevalent, isn't the defining difference.

I tend to think the defining difference is in the way that relationship or connection is expressed. It can be sex-based or pleasure-based certainly. But I tend to think the difference is in the possessiveness of the emotional connection. The "I don't want another woman/man/trash compactor to be emotionally connected like this with you" aspect.

Like, I don't mind if my friends have other friends. I hope they do. But I don't want a partner to have other partners and that applies to sex and the emotional connection. I want to be the only one in both arenas. I'm aware of the open relationship concept which allows for sex, but it doesn't allow for the emotional connection part usually. And I say usually because I accept that there are other ways of operating, but the norm seems to be entirely closed relationship, with second place going to the sexual freedom, but not emotional freedom camp.
 
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Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
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I've been talking about penguins the whole time because I'm not a bigot who limits the expression of platonic love to the straight or patriarch-capitalist-cis-white-upper-middle-class-binary gendered folk. I'm all about that inclusion.

No, but seriously, I'm a bit intrigued by this assumption that romance and sex are intrinsically linked. And that sexual thoughts are the hallmark of that. I don't tend to buy into that exactly. I mean, I do more than like 18 year old me who'd never had a relationship did, but not as much as what you say seems to imply.

I'm not totally sure what makes one relationship romantic and another platonic if it isn't sex, but I do think the difference has much more to do with the type and way of committing to another person. I tend to think that eros, while prevalent, isn't the defining difference.

I tend to think the defining difference is in the way that relationship or connection is expressed. It can be sex-based or pleasure-based certainly. But I tend to think the difference is in the possessiveness of the emotional connection. The "I don't want another woman/man/trash compactor to be emotionally connected like this with you" aspect.

So you think that there needs to be some jealousy and possessiveness involved. That sounds right. If you want a romantic relationship with someone and then they get with someone else, or develop an emotional connection with someone else you get jealous about it.

But if sex is not the defining factor is it any different than the concept of BFF's? People are fine with their BFF's having other friends, but they cant be on the same level of friendship.
 

Misty

Ronin
Joined
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Location
The Sea
So you think that there needs to be some jealousy and possessiveness involved. That sounds right. If you want a romantic relationship with someone and then they get with someone else, or develop an emotional connection with someone else you get jealous about it.

But if sex is not the defining factor is it any different than the concept of BFF's? People are fine with their BFF's having other friends, but they cant be on the same level of friendship.

I mean, I've had two BFFs my whole life (sisters), and I've never seen a possessiveness or jealousy come into play. I've watched other best friendships and it never seemed like there was gonna be a "I thought we were special" moment.

Which, to be clear, seems to be a hallmark of romantic relationships.
 

LittleGumball

Slammin' Salmon
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Location
upstream
Being ugly on the ace spectrum, literally all my relationships are platonic :cool:

No but this seems like such a ridiculous question. Of course people can be friends without them developing feelings for each other. Not every relationship is some scripted movie where they get together in the end and everyone is happy. Being "just friends" is so easy.
 

Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
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I mean, I've had two BFFs my whole life (sisters), and I've never seen a possessiveness or jealousy come into play. I've watched other best friendships and it never seemed like there was gonna be a "I thought we were special" moment.

Which, to be clear, seems to be a hallmark of romantic relationships.
I mean, I've had two BFFs my whole life (sisters), and I've never seen a possessiveness or jealousy come into play. I've watched other best friendships and it never seemed like there was gonna be a "I thought we were special" moment.

Which, to be clear, seems to be a hallmark of romantic relationships.

You have had a different experience to what I have and seen then. Especially amongst girls I have seen a lot of jealousy come into play over who is whos best friend.

I still think the sexual desire plays a part of romantic attraction and relationships. You don't get, as far as I am aware, someone being jealous of another talking to a person they wanted to claim as a friend, but to someone they want as a lover the opposite is true.
 

Misty

Ronin
Joined
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Location
The Sea
You have had a different experience to what I have and seen then. Especially amongst girls I have seen a lot of jealousy come into play over who is whos best friend.

I mean, it isn't surprising to me that it occurs. I just don't see it as the norm. I don't see jealousy in friendship to me a normal thing to have happening. Even among zany *****es.

I still think the sexual desire plays a part of romantic attraction and relationships.

I think it is a part of some romantic relationships. I don't buy that it is a defining characteristic. (Defining here meaning, a characteristic without which it is defined and made what it is.)

And I don't see jealousy playing much (if any) role in your average friendship while I see it as a significant player in the romantic relationship field.
 

Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
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I mean, it isn't surprising to me that it occurs. I just don't see it as the norm. I don't see jealousy in friendship to me a normal thing to have happening. Even among zany *****es.



I think it is a part of some romantic relationships. I don't buy that it is a defining characteristic. (Defining here meaning, a characteristic without which it is defined and made what it is.)

And I don't see jealousy playing much (if any) role in your average friendship while I see it as a significant player in the romantic relationship field.

Right but whilst not necesarily the norm, possessive friendships do exist but how do they differ from a romantic relationship besides the sexual attraction?
 

Misty

Ronin
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Location
The Sea
Right but whilst not necesarily the norm, possessive friendships do exist

I in no way disagree. I would simply answer that if something is not the norm, it is not worth making definition, law, or dwelling upon in any particular way. There are also friendships in which sex occurs but there isn't romance attached. I would argue that sort of relationship requires some sort of new definition.

how do they differ from a romantic relationship besides the sexual attraction?

Depending on the scenario, I would suspect they differ in what the person will complain about and say. I suspect you'll find the complaints of the romantic differ greatly from the complaints of the platonic so much so as to be entirely different beasts.
 

Lozjam

A Cool, Cool Mountain
Joined
May 24, 2015
Why are we assuming that relationships with people their own age as well?

For example, it would be very unlikely that @Vanessa28 and I would ever have sexual feelings towards each other. There is such a huge age difference, that would never cross our minds, and yet we both enjoy each other's company as well.
 

Beauts

Rock and roll will never die
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Location
London, United Kingdom
I feel like the idea that you can't have a platonic relationship is some 14 year old bull**** people need to grow up and out of. I have male and female friends. I have more female friends but that is purely coincidental based on the fact that many of my friends are from school days and I went to a girls school. I have male friends who I literally would never think of that way and I'm pretty sure they'd feel the same way about me. Plus if I am romantically interested in someone I'm quite obvious I think.

I am not the type to string guys along who are only friends with me because they want more. It's wrong to do that and not fair to anyone. It's also not a real friendship if they're only there to get something out of you. Not that platonic relationships can't ever transition but there's a big difference between friendship becoming something more over time and basically only being nice to someone because you want something from them.


P s. Age has nothing to do with anything. Someone your own age can be as nurturing as a mother to you and you'd develop that sort of relationship with them regardless of how objectively attractive you find them or whatever. Equally you could be attracted to and fall in love with someone 20 years older than you. I think it's really dumb for anyone to live their lives vetoing entirely common and possible scenarios because it isn't the supposed "norm". Never say never. In a few years we'll be able to take a pill to keep us young forever so this whole thing about age and attractiveness will be throughly disproven by someone somewhere very quickly. Not saying it means it will definitely happen but it's not this obscene idea some people here seem to think it is.
 

Misty

Ronin
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Location
The Sea
Why are we assuming that relationships with people their own age as well?

For example, it would be very unlikely that @Vanessa28 and I would ever have sexual feelings towards each other. There is such a huge age difference, that would never cross our minds, and yet we both enjoy each other's company as well.


Erhm. Well, to be honest, because it is entirely plausible it would. I mean, I know several professors now who tried to go after their students.
 
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I couldn't be friends with med/hot girls and not want to do them. Is that the question?

Also don't think I've met any guys personally who wouldn't smash an attractive girl.
 

Misty

Ronin
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Location
The Sea
I couldn't be friends with med/hot girls and not want to do them. Is that the question?

Also don't think I've met any guys personally who wouldn't smash an attractive girl.

Could you be friends with them knowing you'll never smash them and making choices not to smash them?
 

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