Thoughts on amiibo/DLC items in BotW/TotK now that TotK treats them...differently...?

[Moblinking5000]

When BotW was released, most people agreed that the amiibo/dlc items were non-canon; the DLC items broke the fourth wall(with the ''EX'' branding, not to mention the Xenoblade ****), and the amiibo items required real life items to summon.

However, these are no longer required in TotK. I would argue that using these as proof of a timeline placement, however, is still questionable. Here's some reasons as to why:

Some of these descriptions have been altered: some would argue that this fact means that they should now be considered canon due to this fact, but I would disagree as some of these actually remove the references. For example, in BotW, the description for the Island Lobster Shirt mentioned the Hero of Winds by title. However, this reference is removed in TotK. Some of these still do have what appear to references to other games, but IMO, either all of the amiibo/DLC items should be considered or none of them. Anything else is cherry picking to fit a particular placement, IMO.

Another reason is the existence of the Wild set in both BotW/TotK; in BotW, it was the ONLY set not requiring amiibos or being ''EX'' branded. However, it stands to logic that it should either be in Link's possession or at the Forgotten Temple, not in the depths.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I wouldn't treat them as having any bearing on the setting. They're probably as as canon to the franchise as the Master Sword is to the Elder Scrolls.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

The items, themselves, are cannon. Cece even reacts to them. The descriptions are now vague enough to not force the related game into canonical history. A unified timeline is suggested, but by no means proven, by these items.

 

[Masaki1812]

The items, themselves, are cannon. Cece even reacts to them. The descriptions are now vague enough to not force the related game into canonical history. A unified timeline is suggested, but by no means proven, by these items.

The Midna's helmet? That was crushed by TP Ganondorf?

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

The Midna's helmet? That was crushed by TP Ganondorf?

Repaired. Duplication. Evidence for timeline placement. Take your pick.

 

[Masaki1812]

Repaired. Duplication. Evidence for timeline placement. Take your pick.

An Easter egg.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Repaired. Duplication. Evidence for timeline placement. Take your pick.

A cool easter egg with no lore implications. The Master Sword appears in the Switch port of Skyrim, but it isn't canon to Elder Scrolls.

 

[GZ Zelda]

I'm pretty predictable, but these items are so obviously suggestive of DT/CT/AT parallel events (which must be specified) or of a unified/linear timeline.

If you want to do DT with parallel events so the ZE timeline still holds, that's fine, I would just ask that you place the parallel events somewhere. When did the Rito evolve, when and how did the Koroks evolve, what happened to Midna and Zant, what happened to Termina, what happened to the Great Deku Tree, how did Ganon resurrect after ALBW, etc. Explain the theory, don't just hand-wave inconsistencies and the unexplained.

I, as always, advocate that the ZE timeline isn't how Zelda time works and is wrong, and these armor sets point towards a linear timeline.

First, we must agree that things that happen in Zelda games are canon to the Zelda world. This just seems so basic to me. Obviously the armor that we get through normal gameplay is armor that Link gets through normal gameplay. The question is 1. what is this armor, and 2. how did it get there. This is how we do all Zelda theory: the Hero's Shade is 1. the Hero of Time 2. after his death post-OoT. Majora's Mask is 1. the spirit of some dead creature 2. that was infused by a magic tribe, maybe the Interlopers, into a mask. Midna's helmet 1. is a replica of the Fused Shadow from TP 2. that was recreated by a Zonai who placed it in a coliseum in the Depths.

An Easter egg.

We shouldn't be picky-choosy about what is included and what isn't: everything we see happening in-game is happening in-game. If you don't think they are canon, I do think we should entirely rule out all of the armor pieces in TotK as canon. They are that integral to the gameplay.

A cool easter egg with no lore implications. The Master Sword appears in the Switch port of Skyrim, but it isn't canon to Elder Scrolls.

Is your claim that items in Zelda games and items out of Zelda games are equally canon? Is the Magical Sword not canonically received from the sage under the grave? Is it somehow less canon because Captain N wields it? Things that happen in Zelda games are canon to Zelda lore. Link being in Smash Bros. doesn't make "Princess Ruto bravely fought back her tears as she bore witness to the tragic misery unfolding in the domain" any less canon.

Some of these descriptions have been altered: some would argue that this fact means that they should now be considered canon due to this fact, but I would disagree as some of these actually remove the references. For example, in BotW, the description for the Island Lobster Shirt mentioned the Hero of Winds by title. However, this reference is removed in TotK. Some of these still do have what appear to references to other games, but IMO, either all of the amiibo/DLC items should be considered or none of them. Anything else is cherry picking to fit a particular placement, IMO.

The Island Lobster Shirt mentions a "southern island." So either Outset, or an entirely unrelated southern island that was identical to Outset. I agree: all TotK items should be considered canon, the Island Lobster Shirt is as canon as the muddlebud imo.

Another reason is the existence of the Wild set in both BotW/TotK; in BotW, it was the ONLY set not requiring amiibos or being ''EX'' branded. However, it stands to logic that it should either be in Link's possession or at the Forgotten Temple, not in the depths.

Link has all 30 hearts Beneath Hyrule Castle, so Link would have had the armor. I'd argue duplicates (but crafted by the prophetic Zonai instead of the prophetic Sheikah). The Old Maps leading to these armor pieces is suggestive: the Wilds set was placed in the Depths, in the skulls of conquered beasts, by the Zonai who made the maps. I guess you could just de-canonize all the armor in TotK, that would also work.

The Midna's helmet? That was crushed by TP Ganondorf?

The item description says it's "much like" the one Midna wore. Which actually suggests it is, in fact, not an Easter Egg. An Easter Egg's description would claim it was the exact helmet worn by Midna.

Again, these items are core to both the Sky and the Depths content in TotK. The 1. collect Zonaite, 2. upgarde battery, 3. explore more Sky Islands, 4. find more Old Maps, 5. descend to Depths, 6. find armor 1. collect Zonaite loop is, like, a central component of the two new map tiers. And TP's armor still has wolf hair clinging to it, it's just...so obvious to me that there's either parallel events in the DT (the re-evolution of Koroks, Rito, Great Sea, Hero of Time), a refounding in the AT or SS-split, a...time merge?, or a linear timeline. Or none of the TotK armor is canon, ay-ay-ay.

 

[Masaki1812]

I'm pretty predictable, but these items are so obviously suggestive of DT/CT/AT parallel events (which must be specified) or of a unified/linear timeline.

If you want to do DT with parallel events so the ZE timeline still holds, that's fine, I would just ask that you place the parallel events somewhere. When did the Rito evolve, when and how did the Koroks evolve, what happened to Midna and Zant, what happened to Termina, what happened to the Great Deku Tree, how did Ganon resurrect after ALBW, etc. Explain the theory, don't just hand-wave inconsistencies and the unexplained.

I, as always, advocate that the ZE timeline isn't how Zelda time works and is wrong, and these armor sets point towards a linear timeline.

First, we must agree that things that happen in Zelda games are canon to the Zelda world. This just seems so basic to me. Obviously the armor that we get through normal gameplay is armor that Link gets through normal gameplay. The question is 1. what is this armor, and 2. how did it get there. This is how we do all Zelda theory: the Hero's Shade is 1. the Hero of Time 2. after his death post-OoT. Majora's Mask is 1. the spirit of some dead creature 2. that was infused by a magic tribe, maybe the Interlopers, into a mask. Midna's helmet 1. is a replica of the Fused Shadow from TP 2. that was recreated by a Zonai who placed it in a coliseum in the Depths.


We shouldn't be picky-choosy about what is included and what isn't: everything we see happening in-game is happening in-game. If you don't think they are canon, I do think we should entirely rule out all of the armor pieces in TotK as canon. They are that integral to the gameplay.


Is your claim that items in Zelda games and items out of Zelda games are equally canon? Is the Magical Sword not canonically received from the sage under the grave? Is it somehow less canon because Captain N wields it? Things that happen in Zelda games are canon to Zelda lore. Link being in Smash Bros. doesn't make "Princess Ruto bravely fought back her tears as she bore witness to the tragic misery unfolding in the domain" any less canon.


The Island Lobster Shirt mentions a "southern island." So either Outset, or an entirely unrelated southern island that was identical to Outset. I agree: all TotK items should be considered canon, the Island Lobster Shirt is as canon as the muddlebud imo.


Link has all 30 hearts Beneath Hyrule Castle, so Link would have had the armor. I'd argue duplicates (but crafted by the prophetic Zonai instead of the prophetic Sheikah). The Old Maps leading to these armor pieces is suggestive: the Wilds set was placed in the Depths, in the skulls of conquered beasts, by the Zonai who made the maps. I guess you could just de-canonize all the armor in TotK, that would also work.


The item description says it's "much like" the one Midna wore. Which actually suggests it is, in fact, not an Easter Egg. An Easter Egg's description would claim it was the exact helmet worn by Midna.

Again, these items are core to both the Sky and the Depths content in TotK. The 1. collect Zonaite, 2. upgarde battery, 3. explore more Sky Islands, 4. find more Old Maps, 5. descend to Depths, 6. find armor 1. collect Zonaite loop is, like, a central component of the two new map tiers. And TP's armor still has wolf hair clinging to it, it's just...so obvious to me that there's either parallel events in the DT (the re-evolution of Koroks, Rito, Great Sea, Hero of Time), a refounding in the AT or SS-split, a...time merge?, or a linear timeline. Or none of the TotK armor is canon, ay-ay-ay.

A one linear timeline is impossible because of OoT. And a timeline merging (Dragon Break - Bethesda) is not likely. I looked for anything in Hinduism, Buddhism, or Shintoism and I find nothing in it that has that.

But why to people like that? Like literally what possible thing would be gained by anyone with the Triforce or anything else to unify 2 very different versions of Hyrule that were once the same (OoT) and a parallel universe timeline (downfall) into a single timeline? First, this person even needs to have this multiversal knowledge, and second, what is for this person to gain from this? Or is this God dude some Zelda fanboy that just needs to have all the games events fit in a single timeline?

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

A cool easter egg with no lore implications. The Master Sword appears in the Switch port of Skyrim, but it isn't canon to Elder Scrolls.

No. getting the Master sword in Skyrim requires out of universe mechanics, and nobody in game (as far as I know) acknowledges it. The item in question is obtainable in universe, and there is at least one in game character that acknowledges it. It's like the mask in Link's wall, in Link Between Worlds. A mask that looks like that is on the wall. That's as far as the canon goes. We can theorize that it is a replica, the real thing, or some other convoluted reasoning, but we still have what is in game.

How the items we find relate to the lore is up to us to debate, and was obviously intended for us to do so. The fact that the items, with the descriptions they have, are in the base game, is as undeniable as anything in the series can be. A theory of why an item is here, now, and not the same as in another game is better than saying that it doesn't exist

First, we must agree that things that happen in Zelda games are canon to the Zelda world. This just seems so basic to me. Obviously the armor that we get through normal gameplay is armor that Link gets through normal gameplay. The question is 1. what is this armor, and 2. how did it get there. This is how we do all Zelda theory: the Hero's Shade is 1. the Hero of Time 2. after his death post-OoT. Majora's Mask is 1. the spirit of some dead creature 2. that was infused by a magic tribe, maybe the Interlopers, into a mask. Midna's helmet 1. is a replica of the Fused Shadow from TP 2. that was recreated by a Zonai who placed it in a coliseum in the Depths.

If I am reading this part correctly (it's been a long day at work), I am inclined to agree.

Link has all 30 hearts Beneath Hyrule Castle, so Link would have had the armor. I'd argue duplicates (but crafted by the prophetic Zonai instead of the prophetic Sheikah). The Old Maps leading to these armor pieces is suggestive: the Wilds set was placed in the Depths, in the skulls of conquered beasts, by the Zonai who made the maps.

It could also be that Zelda made it, in the past. We read in one of her diaries that she upgraded one of Link's outfits, and she had plenty of time on her hands.

I guess you could just de-canonize all the armor in TotK, that would also work.

Why not go further? De-canonize all events that we don't like. Denial may not save us from an oncoming bus, but it does make a comfortable echo chamber.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Is your claim that items in Zelda games and items out of Zelda games are equally canon? Is the Magical Sword not canonically received from the sage under the grave? Is it somehow less canon because Captain N wields it? Things that happen in Zelda games are canon to Zelda lore. Link being in Smash Bros. doesn't make "Princess Ruto bravely fought back her tears as she bore witness to the tragic misery unfolding in the domain" any less canon.

That... isn't at all what I said? I'm saying that the presence of something doesn't automatically make it "canon" in the grand scheme of things. Us finding a Nintendo Switch shirt in BotW does not mean that the Switch canonically exists in the world of Zelda, same as the Master Sword isn't canon to Elder Scrolls.

No. getting the Master sword in Skyrim requires out of universe mechanics, and nobody in game (as far as I know) acknowledges it. The item in question is obtainable in universe, and there is at least one in game character that acknowledges it. It's like the mask in Link's wall, in Link Between Worlds. A mask that looks like that is on the wall. That's as far as the canon goes. We can theorize that it is a replica, the real thing, or some other convoluted reasoning, but we still have what is in game.

How the items we find relate to the lore is up to us to debate, and was obviously intended for us to do so. The fact that the items, with the descriptions they have, are in the base game, is as undeniable as anything in the series can be. A theory of why an item is here, now, and not the same as in another game is better than saying that it doesn't exist

Getting the Master Sword in the Switch version of Skyrim requires climbing a very tall mountain and pulling it out. That sort of thing is a nice reference that is largely ignored by the rest of the game, same as how no one acknowledges Epona if she's brought over from BotW or treats the Phantom Ganon outfit any differently.

They're about as canon to Zelda as Link is to the world of Mario. A sleeping Link can be found in Mario RPG. Does that mean that Link and Mario canonically exist in the same universe?

Maybe if Nintendo gave a **** about lore people wouldn't be scraping for bread crumbs at the bottom of a bread crumb barrel like this.

 

[GZ Zelda]

That... isn't at all what I said? I'm saying that the presence of something doesn't automatically make it "canon" in the grand scheme of things. Us finding a Nintendo Switch shirt in BotW does not mean that the Switch canonically exists in the world of Zelda, same as the Master Sword isn't canon to Elder Scrolls.

It looks like some Elder Scrolls folks consider the Elder Scrolls Master Sword canon to Skyrim. Which is why I was confused when you compared Midna's helm or Majora's Mask or whatever to the Master Sword in Elder Scrolls, because it's not like we are talking about the Xenoblade armor, or the copious Mario references (which we don't even have to get into rn), we are talking about in-game Zelda items, in-universe canonically equivalent to the Snowquil Armor or the Zora Armor.

Anything in the base game that references Zelda's own series is inherently canon, I think that's fair. Otherwise you have to parse "well how much of this is 'fictionally true'" and you're not going to be able to draw lines. It's either all canon or all not. And if it's not, then what is happening in-universe when Link opens a chest to an Old Map that leads to a Twilight armor piece. Like, what's going on there?

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

It looks like some Elder Scrolls folks consider the Elder Scrolls Master Sword canon to Skyrim. Which is why I was confused when you compared Midna's helm or Majora's Mask or whatever to the Master Sword in Elder Scrolls, because it's not like we are talking about the Xenoblade armor, or the copious Mario references (which we don't even have to get into rn), we are talking about in-game Zelda items, in-universe canonically equivalent to the Snowquil Armor or the Zora Armor.

Anything in the base game that references Zelda's own series is inherently canon, I think that's fair. Otherwise you have to parse "well how much of this is 'fictionally true'" and you're not going to be able to draw lines. It's either all canon or all not. And if it's not, then what is happening in-universe when Link opens a chest to an Old Map that leads to a Twilight armor piece. Like, what's going on there?

I don't care what some fans might want to think, the Master Sword isn't canon to Skyrim. It's featured in one version of the game available on one console. It was included with the same intention the Fused Shadow was in TotK: a fun reference.

The only difference is that Bethesda actually gives a **** about the lore of the Elder Scrolls, while Nintendo doesn't. It's about as canon as the Nintendo Switch tee-shirt you can find in the Switch version of BotW.

 

[GZ Zelda]

I don't care what some fans might want to think, but the Master Sword isn't canon to Skyrim. It's featured in one version of the game available on one console. It was included with the same intention the Fused Shadow was in TotK: a fun reference.

So all of the Old Maps content just isn't happening? The Depths are just largely empty canonically and the Sky has islands that have absolutely nothing on them?

 

[Ragnarokio]

does something being a fun reference mean it can't be canon?