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Administrator Roles in Moderating

Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Gender
Timecube
I didn't hack the site, or make videos about it, or anything like that. Ventus made some videos a while back and then they were posted in the blogs here. No one has hacked the site in recent times, last incident was when a moderator's password was bruteforced.
 

Locke

Hegemon
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
Redmond, Washington
The thread wasn't a discussion, it was a baited attack. You can't respond to a baited attack; the only thing to do is to identify it as such and discard it. Censoring his opinion was never a consideration. If he wished to express it properly then there wouldn't be any issue. I don't know where you're getting the impression that anyone's trying to make him seem stupid.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
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If Kitsu hacked the site, then so did Term, Loz, Seth, Thareous, Stitch, Mellow Ezlo, Sydney, Locke, myself and anyone else who used the vbshop exploit at some point.
 

Beauts

Rock and roll will never die
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Location
London, United Kingdom
I didn't say I agreed with the guy, I was trying to make a general point about the possibly not so responsible behaviour of certain members of staff, both in what their activities might imply and in their lackadaisical approach to moderation. But nice way of steering clear of my actual point guys, well done.
 

Emma

The Cassandra
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Location
Vegas
But when it's a baited attack on anyone other than staff, for example, Christians, Atheists, liberals... those threads are fine.
Someone expressing an opinion that is different from what your personal beliefs are is not baiting. No matter how much people wish it to be. It's not respecting people's right to have their own opinion by insisting that dissenting opinions to held ideas are "baiting". Participation in any thread is mandatory. And the only thing you can ever assuredly call baiting is something that is directed towards a person specifically, and not an idea or belief system. The thread in question though was posted in the heat of this incident with undeniable references to what was going on. Everyone's emotions were high and all that should have been done was locking it.
 

Emma

The Cassandra
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Location
Vegas
You're right, he didn't hack hack the site.

He abused the exploit immensely. Who's to say he won't abuse any more powers he has?

Just saying. Defending that it wasn't a hack of the site doesn't mean he didn't outright abused the exploit.
That image thing was never that big of a deal, and many people clearly enjoyed it. I don't think he'd ever do anything to actually seriously harm the site. I just think he can't control his anger and that he would be tempted to utilize the moderating powers against people or make big decisions that the staff should discuss first without actually letting them discuss it. But "hack" or actively be malicious towards the place with a destructive mindset, I don't see that at this point.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
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If you weren't here during 95% of Kitsu's time as an Admin, I'm not sure you are qualified to speak on it.
 

CynicalSquid

Swag Master General
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Location
The End
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Apache Helicopter
If you weren't here during 95% of Kitsu's time as an Admin, I'm not sure you are qualified to speak on it.

K then

My opinion never really mattered to begin with. If no one wants my input then I'm just going to stop wasting my time. I'm not ranked anyways so I don't matter at all. Thanks for belittling me.

P.S. I sincerely feel that way. And I did find it kind of hurtful. You basically said "Your opinion doesnt matter".
 
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Emma

The Cassandra
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Location
Vegas
If you weren't here during 95% of Kitsu's time as an Admin, I'm not sure you are qualified to speak on it.
Could you maybe instead discuss the proposed code of conduct for admins instead of just focusing on Kitsu's value? There are rules and expectations of everyone, even staff members. There should be punishments when that is violated. If you refuse to do so, you're not treating everyone fairly and it's playing favorites with the more privaledged and that sets a terrible example. This whole incident is about trust in the staff. Excusing away what happened with barely anything but a wrist slap, dismissing those who complain about it is only going to reinforce the negative reputation of the staff. Which means you will run into more incidents like this, you'll have more resentment and hostility towards the staff, and that when these things happen they'll go on longer. Absolutely nothing is to be gained by trying to brush this under the rug.

Failing to condemn what is done effectively condones those actions and it encourages future excesses of power. Anyone who might do it would see that they can do what they wish and attack who they want and get away with it with barely a wrist slap. And their target will be thought less of because they argued against the staff and the staff, like they did this case, refused to put full blame on the guilty party and instead split it over onto the victim. At the very least that is poor management. And it is bad politics. It's not taking into consideration the consequences of those actions. The more you try to insist nothing serious happened, the more people are going to think a coverup is at work and that doesn't help anyone.

C'mon, can ANYONE here honestly say they like this drama? It's happening because we can never reach an agreement on such problems. There is little denying how badly the staff drags their heels in these situations. A bad infraction is never deal with unless a public scandal is started over it. The mods refuse to actually do anything about anyone's complaints about bad posts or insults themselves and instead tell people to "report it," even if they already saw the material in question or were told exactly where it is. YOU ARE MODERATORS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! It is your JOB! If you are told where it is, GO DEAL WITH IT!. Don't belittle and dismiss the person by telling them they need to make a report first for you to care. And in this case now, all of you have constantly been avoiding the topic of setting up some ground rules for what admins and mods can and can't do with their powers. Instead all we ever get is excuses to ignore or diminish questionable actions that already happened. That's not a solution. That's not even a bandage. It's ignoring a problem that is just going to get infected and swollen if it's not tackled directly. That's the main reason why things get so insane all the time because we never actually try to sit down to figure out some kind of checks and balance system to prevent this. An example, with non-spambot situations, absolutely no infractions or formal warnings should EVER be handed out, ever, without a staff discussion on the issue first to determine if it is really justified. I think that's fair and reasonable and its a decent starting point. That way, if any such warning or infraction that does happen gets contested, it's not one staff member on the line like usual and things would be far, far more likely to NOT explode into a disaster.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
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Gender
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K then

My opinion never really mattered to begin with. If no one wants my input then I'm just going to stop wasting my time. I'm not ranked anyways so I don't matter at all. Thanks for belittling me.

P.S. I sincerely feel that way. And I did find it kind of hurtful. You basically said "Your opinion doesnt matter".

You disqualified Seth's posts by saying what he said didn't matter because you weren't there, so I am using the same logic against you. You weren't there so you can't just go off of what happened in the last week.
 

DARK MASTER

The Emperor
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Side note: Xinn, according to her once used her admin powers to make Erebea an HK, she might be lying about her abusing her power, but personally I tend to trust her.

This happened in the past, but I found it interesting and relevant.
 

Emma

The Cassandra
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Location
Vegas
I think we need to get back to the issue. All the staff requires, at minimum some ground rules. For one, they actually have to hold up to all all members are equal rule. No more blaming users for misdeeds conducted by mods. If a staff member insults someone, or starts a fight, no more of this "they had it coming" or saying that it has equal blame. Infractions and warnings have to be an absolute last resort. And they have to be discussed first before making one. Bad infractions and warnings, even if they are reverted, are still on someone's record. And this hurts people. This history can, will, and has been used against people in the past. I never, ever deserved any of the warnings or infractions I got. The staff has largely agreed eventually that they were unwarranted, but they were still there on my record and it was used against me, mods and admins have used them to say I have a "history" of getting infractions even though it's not really true. And what about brand new staff members who have NO idea what happened? What about if its forgotten? Then they look at the records and see them in there and use that as a justification to say punishment is likely warranted for a "first offense", even though it isn't. Or if it is warranted, they might use it to justify a harsher punishment for that one case. It is not cool. These accusations leave a permanent mark that does harm. It shouldn't be so casually thrown around and it never should be taken lightly. SOMETHING should be done to point out how individual infractions and warnings weren't valid if we're not willing to find a way to actually delete them. I know it's possible in a roundabout way of accessing the database. Not convenient. But from my wiki experience, I know it's possible to write php code that could automate it.
 

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