Unless some can give a reason why you shouldn't be one, I don't have one. Kitsu has done enough to lose any chance of being a mod. Giving this situation nothing but a wrist slap is not going to set a good example. Something should be done. And the number doesn't have to mean anything. It doesn't make any sense to make that a condition. Actually could use another admin, or two, and several more moderators. We have far too few. Better that it was a short time ago, but still we need more. Mods need to take a more proactive role in participating in the forum and defusing situations before they get out of hand. Instead of jumping to infractions or even warnings as a first resort. It shouldn't be turned to as a first resort. I personally think if you infract anyone, you failed your job as a mod. I know, of course, of course, there are cases where you have no other course of action. But it shouldn't be viewed as a victory that someone got infracted. We need to encourage a more proactive approach that gives people the benefit of the doubt and works more on diffusing situations before they go too far instead of focusing on punishing the bad.
Administrator Roles in Moderating
- Thread starter Terminus
- Start date
Snow Queen
Mannceaux Signature Collection
Considering that most mods are too afraid for thier own reputations to do their jobs, then maybe yeah the admins should have mod powers.
Justac00lguy
BooBoo
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2012
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- Shewhale
Huh what? How exactly may I ask?
Snow Queen
Mannceaux Signature Collection
I see you haven't been paying much attention to my daily poor post quality and the incredibly spammy blogs hmm. Seriously, my posts are ATROCIOUS on a daily basis. Why am I not infracted? Just a bit ago I just quoted a guy with the comment "this" and nothing was done. So what's the deal? Why aren't you doing your goddamn job and infracting me for ****posting? Huh?
That's not surprising when just a few months ago, everyone was claiming that they were being too strict. And a few months before that, they were too lax? You can't have it both ways.
Snow Queen
Mannceaux Signature Collection
Strictness > Laxness. User safety and all that.
DARK MASTER
The Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2010
But I think some people want a Burger King moderator team.....That being said in my many years of experience moderating, a balanced is what's needed.
Justac00lguy
BooBoo
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- Shewhale
Honestly what is with your hostility today? It's come out of nowhere and entirely unnecessary. Baiting mods is just... what. Like I wouldn't even know why you would even ould try to do that.
Also "****posting", as you phrased it, i'sn't really grounds for an infraction, as long as it's not harmful (well. in the case of yours posts anyway). You haven't done anything that's really worth giving an infraction for and no one has reported anything of yours, so it's not a problem to deal with. And blogs, yeah they were spammy of course, but look at the general history of blogs, most are spammy. There is no rule to punish stuff like this and usually it's a case of matching the situation up with the person. You tend to be light hearted laid back person most of the time, so you can easily match these cases up with your personality so to say.
If you're actually attempting to bait the mods, just to prove some point that we're not doing our job properly, then stop. If anyone is unhappy with something, they can report It. If someone is happy with one of our actions, they can contest it. We can't please everyone and I think you're being very unfair by putting this label over us for literally no reason.
Posting quality was removed from the rules and the PPQ infraction was deleted.
Replying to this post again. Something else to say. I find your reasoning here kind of bizarre because Djinn does not have database access. So the one in four thing doesn't apply in that case? If you make the argument that some admins shouldn't have full access, then it should be okay to restrict any kind of access if that admin is not suited for it. Unless you give Djinn database access too, your reasoning here is just hypocritical. If Kitsu not having equal access doesn't seem right to you, why is Djinn not having full access acceptable? And I still think that it sets a very bad precedent for letting Kitsu get away with it with just a slap on the wrist. I'm sure you can find something in between demotion and a wrist slap if you just won't budge on the demotion. It sets an extremely bad example and it further erodes member confidence in the staff. Playing off as a 50/50 thing is absolutely ridiculous because it wasn't. It's not some ambiguous thing of one person's word against the other. There are logs that prove what happened. And prove that DM didn't do anything wrong and that Kitsu attacked him unprovoked. It can't look like anything but favoritism when you do a fifty-fifty split on the blame for an entirely one-sided event.
Jamie
Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
- Joined
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- trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
I'm sure Djinn can get DB access if he really wants to. Again, he has the permissions to delete everything in the db, just not access to the gui. Db access means nothing except for convenience; which is great for people who are coding.
The principle of the thing still is important. He has tried to get it many times, but several people violently argued against it and he hasn't got it. The principle still matters because it's the same thing going on in your example. They can't coexist without contradicting each other.
And another thing, not necessarily directed at you, I'm absolutely confounded at the rationalization people seem to be using to justify what Kitsu did. In that, because he has the power to do it, it must be justified. If that's not what they meant, then why go on about how he has the power to do it anyway? What you can do is completely different from what you SHOULD do. There should be rules of conduct for everyone, staff included. And if they break those rules, they should be punished appropriately. Instead of making excuses "well he's an admin so we can't punish." SOMETHING should be done. Passing off the blame of a staff member's misconduct onto their target is horribly unethical. "They had it coming." That's basically what happened here. People made excuses to say that DM had it coming and that, while excessive, was well grounded with solid reasoning, even though it didn't. It's not something we can just let go and ignore.
Terminus
If I was a wizard this wouldn't be happening to me
I don't think that anyone's really disputed that Djinn should have DB and all that good stuff.
Beauts
Rock and roll will never die
Other than speaking to a few people here separately, I've steered clear of this debate because... well, tbh I mostly don't care.
However, while this is slightly off topic but none the less relevant overall, RE the MD thread which made strong reference to this 'debate' (*eye roll*):
It's all well and good to argue that certain users are making unfounded accusations about members of staff and/or other forum members and their possible activities. And yes, that thread may have been an extremely immature and cavalier way of trying to open discussion about it an environment which is not this section of the forums. I.e. the one where all non members of staff appear to be getting shouted down. However, one would argue that in future if situations like this arise, instead of doing the very thing that people are complaining about, e.g. having their opinions and threads locked, censored and taken down, not to mention ridiculed, just because they put the status quo slightly off kilter (lol what status quo, it's a DISCUSSION forum or so I thought) you let these things stand alone as examples of ludicrousness and let people actually respond and have an opinion of their own. If you cannot see that this example highlights the exact problem that he is complaining about, however clumsily that may be... I mean, you've basically just gone some way to proving his point, not making him seem stupid which is evidently the target. He could've done that all by himself if he wanted to.
Please note this is just one example of this instance.
Second of all, I have no actual problem with Kitsu. Please allow me to once again state that I have a life outside of ZD so I don't particularly feel up in arms about this. HOWEVER, as has been mentioned, there are principles at stake here. We are supposed to be able to trust staff members not to hack, mess with, and whatever else he did, this website. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you SHOULD. I COULD go on a murder spree and kill people and I don't. SAVVY?
But if you are in any doubt of the point I am making with this, refer to the first paragraph of this comment: it pretty much seems that staff members, regardless of how 'well' or 'ethically' they do their job, can abuse their power and wield it as they please. I can't believe there are some of us here that need the reasons this is wrong to be explained to them. Saying that, most of the people who need it explaining appear to be staff members or people who like to believe they are close to staff members.
However, while this is slightly off topic but none the less relevant overall, RE the MD thread which made strong reference to this 'debate' (*eye roll*):
It's all well and good to argue that certain users are making unfounded accusations about members of staff and/or other forum members and their possible activities. And yes, that thread may have been an extremely immature and cavalier way of trying to open discussion about it an environment which is not this section of the forums. I.e. the one where all non members of staff appear to be getting shouted down. However, one would argue that in future if situations like this arise, instead of doing the very thing that people are complaining about, e.g. having their opinions and threads locked, censored and taken down, not to mention ridiculed, just because they put the status quo slightly off kilter (lol what status quo, it's a DISCUSSION forum or so I thought) you let these things stand alone as examples of ludicrousness and let people actually respond and have an opinion of their own. If you cannot see that this example highlights the exact problem that he is complaining about, however clumsily that may be... I mean, you've basically just gone some way to proving his point, not making him seem stupid which is evidently the target. He could've done that all by himself if he wanted to.
Please note this is just one example of this instance.
Second of all, I have no actual problem with Kitsu. Please allow me to once again state that I have a life outside of ZD so I don't particularly feel up in arms about this. HOWEVER, as has been mentioned, there are principles at stake here. We are supposed to be able to trust staff members not to hack, mess with, and whatever else he did, this website. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you SHOULD. I COULD go on a murder spree and kill people and I don't. SAVVY?
But if you are in any doubt of the point I am making with this, refer to the first paragraph of this comment: it pretty much seems that staff members, regardless of how 'well' or 'ethically' they do their job, can abuse their power and wield it as they please. I can't believe there are some of us here that need the reasons this is wrong to be explained to them. Saying that, most of the people who need it explaining appear to be staff members or people who like to believe they are close to staff members.