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This has been an extremely important thread. I think it's been valuable to this community and it's strongly contributed to a much better system. But now that we figured that out, we need streamline everything and having this rather informally started one represent this function is no longer is...

Yeah.... never, ever trust angry statements thrown out in the shoutbox in the middle of a controversy. People tend to... well to put it bluntly... lie about other people to make them seem worse than they are to get people to side against them. It's a common behavior a lot of people take part in...

For one last time, I was asked to support last time. And here I am defending the person in question from the unsolicited attacks being subjected by the rest of you. Shaming tactics are not going to change the validity of your argument. The comment is harmless because the target was not offended...

Uhm... for when they're not okay with it? The rules don't even cover explicitly this because they shouldn't. This is too subjective and manipulative of a thing to be in there. The actual rules that relate to how people are treated are more about treating everyone fairly and equally. If there's a...

No, it's you telling people what they have the right to say and what they should be offended about. Which is in effect a controlling expression of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Trying to be in control over everyone, being the sole arbiter of morality. Actually this has been hugely...

It still wouldn't matter. It would be absolutely none of your business in that case either. Because, if it would, that would mean that you're making other people's sex lives your personal business to intervene in. The only people on Earth who ever could have remotely any valid say in such a...

It really doesn't matter. No matter how much it upsets you, it doesn't matter how much you don't like a joke. You've got no right to tell people they can't say it. Especially if the other side is okay with it. You're not their parents. It is none of your business. No it is very different, in...

This isn't even remotely the same thing. Off color jokes are no where near the same thing as actual physical molestation. Equating them as such is, as I said, nothing short of emotional manipulation. Trying to shame and guilt people into siding with you on an issue. We can't keep inflating this...

Porn is entirely different and you know it. As for everything else, yes, people should be able to say racist things. You don't have to like what they say, but you have no right to tell them they can't say it. And yes, if the target was not offended, it absolutely is no one else's business. You...

As has been said, several times already, it absolutely does not matter in what way you feel offended by something that wasn't directed at you. Preaching about the evils of pedophilia doesn't change that. Trying to shame people for "how dare you defend pedophilia" doesn't strengthen your...

That isn't even remotely what I said. You're confusing two completely different things. You're equating my saying that OTHER PEOPLE shouldn't have a say in complaining about being offended on behalf of someone else, even if that someone else was never offended, with people complaining about they...

As I said, it doesn't matter how something makes you uncomfortable, your discomfort doesn't give you the right to say people shouldn't say it. And yes, people should be able to make racist comments. That doesn't mean you have to like them. Saying something racist in general is a whole other...

Finding it offensive and finding it "creepy and pedophillic" are the exact same thing. The latter is just a more condemning way to say "offensive". But it doesn't make it any more okay. Exactly how other people think something is offensive doesn't make it any more okay to be "offended" on...

We were just going over this. And it was more than a little unwise to jump on board and doing this right as it was going on. First of all we can't expect age appropriateness because, as has pointed out, people can lie about their age, or at least don't have to be honest about it. Many people...

You refusing to discuss them doesn't make them irrelevant. Actual thread posts are getting dealt with rather readily. SB posts are not. And there is no way to report them. there is no direct report feature for SB posts, and the staff is notoriously unwilling to respond to me in PMs or Skype...

Formatting every one of your points prettily doesn't stop each of them from being completely wrong. And asserting they're not doesn't make them go away. As you keep constantly ignoring, the conversation WAS manipulated as taking it in context completely changes the situation. No amount of...

Your exact words were:

There is also the tiny nagging issue of this being made entirely clear in the Skype conversations with the three of you (as Kitsu has had me permanently contact blocked on Skype since he was promoted, which you do intermittedly yourself now and then). All were quite clear about really not liking...

Maybe the whole "talked about it for a week" when it was entirely a non issue, and the times when he was wrongly warned/infracted before without any of the four of you caring in the least was a clue?

I am an admin of the wiki. The wiki is struggling with getting activity. A forum is usually the primary source of users for a wiki, while a main site or other things are a source of mostly viewers. A forum viewing its staff as corrupt is less inclined to join the site's wiki as they'll assume...

What he did still wasn't worth punishing. And he made the point he set out to make and you people keep pretending it doesn't exist. There is open mocking and ridiculing going on right now in the shoutbox, with you participating in it, and you're doing nothing about it. That was his point. That...

Did say they did. If you read what I posted, you'd have seen that I said that on their own, in context, they're not that bad. And you'd have also seen that I said other people have been making sexual comments that are on the same scale and nothing happened to them. Don't pretend you don't know...

As long as the staff continues to ignore open ridicule of other people constantly being committed by a select few in the SB on a daily basis? Yes. None of what you just listed is worth punishment if you refuse to do anything about the ridicule. Until that time, it's never going to look like...

It made it look more direct and forceful than it actually was and it took out the context that explained that he wasn't the only one making fun of it and that most people didn't even understand his original joke which makes including the first part completely pointless because you cannot justify...

This does not change that is was unfair. Kitsu still manipulated the conversation, left out content that showed it was taken out of context with others doing the same thing. It still showed how no one got the joke until I explained it. Yet I wasn't singled out, he was. Kitsu openly lied to us...

Kitsu is the bad one. The other two are just too biased against DM. They're fine in other areas. Other than this, Seth and Batman have been doing a fantastic job and I've been pleased with their work otherwise. Rep you're not that bad, just really off on this. Kitsu is the one that harasses...

I'd say so yes. Both you and Kitsu have shown yourselves to be incapable of being unbiased when it comes to DM. You look for the tiniest things and say it warrants action, when it is always taken out out context, ignoring that other people were doing the exact same thing, playing along, and yet...

Except no one ever responds on those other channels they ignore everything. You've personally been ignoring me for a week. But none of you hesitate to share everything I said with everyone else with no regard to privacy. It is relevant to this case because Kitsu issued this warning and he's...

I literally just posted an example a page ago. And ALIT posted some examples too. Don't try to pretend this isn't happening. You know exactly who I'm referring to so let's not tapdance around it. Kitsu. Kitsu can be as abusive as he wants and no one does a thing. You are not helping by ignoring...

But only people who annoy the staff of course. There have been plenty of it from staff and nothing is done about that. And I already explained that a more strict policy is a bad idea. The staff is already under fire for playing favorites and holding grudges. When you suddenly decide to be more...

I literally just said this wasn't about adding warnings to stuff from the SB. I explained, though maybe unclearly, that there was nothing mentioned publicly about some rules being more strictly enforced, which Kitsu and Seth both used to justify this thing. That's what I was referring to, not...

Except there was no such notice about the rules being more strict, not the sb warnings, no one even brought that up. And it's not listed in the rules, as it should be. And that "touch yourself" was a reference to Family Guy. I've made that reference before too. You're looking for an excuse. And...

I should note also how immeditately after this occured, Kitsu went and started his usual trolling on the shoutbox. There he's openly mocking someone, me in this case. That'd go against your new "more strict rules" that are allegedly in place. And he also uses a power swear. I don't care much...

I should also mention how discussing a new policy, if that even happened which I doubt, doesn't make that policy official and doesn't entitle you to enforce it until after the entire forum is informed about the change. They were not. There is nothing in the rules about this change about being...

Because he did it so quickly that there couldn't have been a discussion. It takes more than ten minutes to discuss anything. Less than ten minutes, more like eight. Kitsu's not supposed to be handing out infractions at all. If he actually did post anything in the staff chat, it'd be the altered...

Because I'm not afraid of you. And I am a wiki admin. What happens to this site is my business and other staff members abusing their authority to play out their childish grudges is my business. Your actions reflect badly on the site as a whole and I need the site to have a good reputation to get...

Kitsu, you did this within minutes of it happening. That's not nearly enough time to discuss this incident in the mod chat. Especially with no one else online on ZD at the time. Meaning no discussion happened because if it did, they'd have checked it out and shown up as online at the forum. And...

I'm contesting an infraction on behalf of someone else. Kitsu just infracted the user DARK MASTER for an exchange on the shoutbox. Kitsu has a well known grudge against DM and has falsely infracted him for a shoutbox conversation before. The message was: Kitsu altered the conversation in his...

Okay. This isn't exactly an infraction. But it's the only suitable place to bring it up. And it definitely qualifies as an unfair punishment. I think it brings up an important point that needs to be addressed regardless so I'm doing it. I'm bringing this up on behalf of someone else. It seems...

Because if there was a distinction, we wouldn't get these excuses to justify the action because it'd be explicitly out of their bounds and there'd be no question about what to do.

Where are you getting this? He did do this a million years ago. But not at all in the last two years. Ancient history isn't relevant to what happened NOW. And nothing he's done on the forums in the last few months back up this claim on "baiting". Kitsu HAD no reason to do this. The conversation...

They should be split back up given this incident. The defacto distinction should be made official.

Given how badly he mishandled that power, it should be revoked from him. We should make a distinction between tech admin and community admin and moderator. Not everyone suited for one can do the other.

We've had unfair infractions and warnings before that were entirely unwarranted. Leaving these in a person's record can harm them in the future when newer admins and mods, or dare I say, another abusive mod or admin, who are not aware of what went on, see that on someone's record and assume they...

And as the other part of our conversation said, his value doesn't excuse what he did. The moderators have a bad reputation as it is of ignoring things the staff does wrong and making excuses for them to get away with it, as well as being overly harsh. The current staff has made it quite clear...

His worth as an admin doesn't erase his actions here. You never should use someone's value in a position to justify or ignore acting like he has in it. He's been verbally abusive for weeks and this infraction is entirely unjustified. Being knowledgeable in tech doesn't justify acting like he...

I know for a fact that Kitsu didn't give any real evidence whatsoever because no such evidence even exists. You can scour everything about DM has had on the forums in the last two months and it doesn't support Kitsu's claims. He's imagined this entire thing. Whatever Kitsu said in staff areas...

It's silly, but I'd hardly call that sexual or baiting. And you're ignoring the fact that at the time JJ was doing his usual attack pattern and in context, DM's statement doesn't stand out against what JJ was saying. And I'd say Kitsu was being irresponsible there by again ignoring JJ and...

Given that there is absolutely no justification for the infraction, and that in the event in question, there's undeniable proof that it was in fact Kitsu who was hostile and aggressive, not DARK MASTER, and that he did the infraction almost immediately after his own shouts were reported and he...

I feel I should point out that the entire conversation is logged in my post and that is not what happened. Refer back to it if you wish. Dark was carrying on a conversation and Kitsu attacked him unprovoked. There was no baiting whatsoever.