(OLD) Contest Unfair Infractions Here

[Jamie]

This isn't even remotely the same thing. Off color jokes are no where near the same thing as actual physical molestation. Equating them as such is, as I said, nothing short of emotional manipulation. Trying to shame and guilt people into siding with you on an issue. We can't keep inflating this into a bigger issue than it actually is.

So what about the former one, where they say "Oh I want you so bad, I want to shove my...."?

I was asked to do that by DM, because he was afraid of the treatment he'd get if he did it himself. Being requested to do it is very different from making it your business to complain about someone's problem that doesn't exist.

I don't think it really matters HOW you ended up in the thread. If you are defending one side or another, it's the same thing. IDC who requested what.

 

[Emma]

So what about the former one, where they say "Oh I want you so bad, I want to shove my...."?

It really doesn't matter. No matter how much it upsets you, it doesn't matter how much you don't like a joke. You've got no right to tell people they can't say it. Especially if the other side is okay with it. You're not their parents. It is none of your business.

I don't think it really matters HOW you ended up in the thread. If you are defending one side or another, it's the same thing. IDC who requested what.

No it is very different, in that case I was specifically asked to help by the wounded party. In this case, third party people who were not involved in the situation at all are coming in here demanding punishment. That's not what this is for. This is the Contest Unfiar Infractions thread, not the "I don't like this person so please punish them" thread. If don't like what someone says, report it. If they don't get punishment and you think they deserve it, speak to the staff about it directly.

 

[Jirohnagi]

This isn't even remotely the same thing. Off color jokes are no where near the same thing as actual physical molestation. Equating them as such is, as I said, nothing short of emotional manipulation. Trying to shame and guilt people into siding with you on an issue. We can't keep inflating this into a bigger issue than it actually is.



I was asked to do that by DM, because he was afraid of the treatment he'd get if he did it himself. Being requested to do it is very different form making it your business to complain about someone's problem that doesn't exist.

And now you are saying the problem doesn't exist.

But by your own logic it wasn't YOUR business to side with DM at that time you just chose to aid him, it wasn't your business but because you were asked you jumped in.

The issue is, this forum seems to be intolerantly lax towards penalizing people for 1) breaking the damned rules and 2) Actually allowing someone to state they want to bang a minor, it doesn't matter if they lie about being a minor fact is you shouldn't be saying that type of stuff, you yourself blew it into a bigger problem when you started on the people who didn't want to hear that crap, but and here is the double edged sword, you state it isn't our right to intervene, it's not their right to state they want to bang a child. You cannot say what you want just because you feel like it or you think it's a joke, it didn't look like a smart response to a thread and nor did it look like someone who wasn't creeping on a minor would say.

You are trotting out many different defenses but it boils down to this. The rules were broken, mods were alert by other people because of concern, and to be quite frank i don't give a **** if loz thought it was a joke the way he went about it was in poor taste especially in this day and age. The mods handed him a punishment, a zero point infraction that means diddly squat.

You and those who side with him and think he did nothing wrong (which is what it boils down to in some cases and in yours, apparently defending peoples right to be perverted creepers) when he did, it doesn't matter who raised the horn at this point because multiple reports were lodged in the end, hell as far as i know the individual the remark was aimed even reported (unsure of that).

It literally comes down to the fact it explicitly states in the rules no sexual conduct anywhere but the MD, i won't say the mods have been lax but they have, i've seen it spilling into general discussion and into SB several times and it shouldn't, Lozjam broke the rules what he said or did at this point is irrelevant he got his infraction and that is all there is to it.

 

[Jamie]

It really doesn't matter. No matter how much it upsets you, it doesn't matter how much you don't like a joke. You've got no right to tell people they can't say it. Especially if the other side is okay with it. You're not their parents. It is none of your business.

What if it wasn't a joke, though? What if the comments in my quote were serious, and the other person was okay with it.

No it is very different, in that case I was specifically asked to help by the wounded party. In this case, third party people who were not involved in the situation at all are coming in here demanding punishment. That's not what this is for. This is the Contest Unfiar Infractions thread, not the "I don't like this person so please punish them" thread. If don't like what someone says, report it. If they don't get punishment and you think they deserve it, speak to the staff about it directly.

Nope, we are defending the staff's actions. You can defend one person but we can't?

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

No it is very different, in that case I was specifically asked to help by the wounded party. In this case, third party people who were not involved in the situation at all are coming in here demanding punishment. That's not what this is for. This is the Contest Unfiar Infractions thread, not the "I don't like this person so please punish them" thread. If don't like what someone says, report it. If they don't get punishment and you think they deserve it, speak to the staff about it directly.

To be clear, I actually really like Lozjam and would hate to see him banned, but I'm not gonna stand by when he makes a joke that crossed a line. We're not trying to get someone banned because we don't like them, we're arguing that his warning, which means next to nothing, was entirely justified.

 

[Emma]

What if it wasn't a joke, though? What if the comments in my quote were serious, and the other person was okay with it.

It still wouldn't matter. It would be absolutely none of your business in that case either. Because, if it would, that would mean that you're making other people's sex lives your personal business to intervene in. The only people on Earth who ever could have remotely any valid say in such a situation are the parents, no one else. And even then, I think the person has every right to ignore the parent if they want.

Nope, we are defending the staff's actions. You can defend one person but we can't?

Uhm... no it's not? You were doing no such thing. You made it very clear you were angry at the staff for not punishing more. You insulted them for "not doing their jobs". You seem obsessed with punishment for the sake of punishment. It's more than a little disturbing.

 

[Jamie]

It still wouldn't matter. It would be absolutely none of your business in that case either. Because, if it would, that would mean that you're making other people's sex lives your personal business to intervene in. The only people on Earth who ever could have remotely any valid say in such a situation are the parents, no one else. And even then, I think the person has every right to ignore the parent if they want.

First of all, it's not their sex lives. This is Zelda Dungeon, a forum for ****ing Zelda fans. Not for having Sex RPs with minors.

Secondly, it's also illegal to have sexually charged discussion with minors (i know so from to catch a predator), so you're going to allow illegal activity to happen on ZD and the staff can't do anything about it?

 

[Jirohnagi]

It still wouldn't matter. It would be absolutely none of your business in that case either. Because, if it would, that would mean that you're making other people's sex lives your personal business to intervene in. The only people on Earth who ever could have remotely any valid say in such a situation are the parents, no one else. And even then, I think the person has every right to ignore the parent if they want.



Uhm... no it's not? You were doing no such thing. You made it very clear you were angry at the staff for not punishing more. You insulted them for "not doing their jobs". You seem obsessed with punishment for the sake of punishment. It's more than a little disturbing.

1) that DM issue was nothing to do with you and you still dived in so don't go there, being asked or not gives YOU no right to join in, don't think it does cuz it doesn't, when someone posts **** like "i'd bang you even though your young" onto a public forum board then it's EVERYONE's business because they might someone who will do harm overall, i think you personally have no stake in this as you weren't even there when this erupted in the first place you just dived into something that funny enough ISN'T your business by your standards.

I fully agree with Rep i think he got off lightly in this case but i respect the mods choice, i once got six points for flaming someone, where the bloody christ is it right someone can get six points for flaming someone but someone who makes what can be construed as sexual advances can get away with the 0 point infraction and then has the damned nerve to say " i don't deserve this"

 

[Lozjam]

1) that DM issue was nothing to do with you and you still dived in so don't go there, being asked or not gives YOU no right to join in, don't think it does cuz it doesn't, when someone posts **** like "i'd bang you even though your young" onto a public forum board then it's EVERYONE's business because they might someone who will do harm overall, i think you personally have no stake in this as you weren't even there when this erupted in the first place you just dived into something that funny enough ISN'T your business by your standards.

I fully agree with Rep i think he got off lightly in this case but i respect the mods choice, i once got six points for flaming someone, where the bloody christ is it right someone can get six points for flaming someone but someone who makes what can be construed as sexual advances can get away with the 0 point infraction and then has the damned nerve to say " i don't deserve this"

To think that I actually think that "I don't deserve" a warning" means you have not read any of my posts at all. I am merely saying that the rules in place with Zelda Dungeon don't exactly protect from this sort of thing. If this means changing the rules. Then fine. However, I brought up this issue not for me, but for others sake.

There needs to be a clear distinction of what may or may not be appropriate, and what is and isn't against the rules. As I didn't really break ZD's rules, as I have posted as to why above.

For example, you calling myself someone who would make sexual advances against a minor, it isn't very nice. Nor is it appropriate given the situation. Should you get a warning for this? No. Is it against the rules? No. It is merely what you think, and it is your thoughts. However socially unpleasant of a thought it may be, you are still allowed to have them, and voice them.

 

[Emma]

First of all, it's not their sex lives. This is Zelda Dungeon, a forum for ****ing Zelda fans. Not for having Sex RPs with minors.

No, it's you telling people what they have the right to say and what they should be offended about. Which is in effect a controlling expression of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Trying to be in control over everyone, being the sole arbiter of morality.

Secondly, it's also illegal to have sexually charged discussion with minors (i know so from to catch a predator), so you're going to allow illegal activity to happen on ZD and the staff can't do anything about it?

Actually this has been hugely exaggerated. To Catch A Predator is not an objective source of legal information. It is a show with an agenda that tries to slant things towards that agenda. The law in question is not even a law, it's an agency policy that is very obscure and almost never enforced, and its constitutionality is questionable and hasn't always held up in court. It's filmsy. The only time you see it is in sting operations, and even then they can't actually bring criminal charges unless they gain actual evidence.

In any case, this obviously has nothing to do with this case. You're just going about how much you hate pedophilia and how evil anyone who questions the dogma around it are and how they want to hurt children if they don't agree. Suspiciously similar to radical feminist claims of anyone who criticizes their ideas on rape hate women and want women to raped even though that's not true). Instead of bogging up this thread with this obvious derailment, why not make an MD thread about pedophilla instead where you can go on about it.

1) that DM issue was nothing to do with you and you still dived in so don't go there, being asked or not gives YOU no right to join in, don't think it does cuz it doesn't, when someone posts **** like "i'd bang you even though your young" onto a public forum board then it's EVERYONE's business because they might someone who will do harm overall, i think you personally have no stake in this as you weren't even there when this erupted in the first place you just dived into something that funny enough ISN'T your business by your standards.

I fully agree with Rep i think he got off lightly in this case but i respect the mods choice, i once got six points for flaming someone, where the bloody christ is it right someone can get six points for flaming someone but someone who makes what can be construed as sexual advances can get away with the 0 point infraction and then has the damned nerve to say " i don't deserve this"

That's an extremely dangerous precedent. Here you are joining on attacking someone for questioning the treatment they got, along with several others doing the same. And you are trying to insist that if they're too afraid to stand up for themselves they can't ask for help. "Too bad, shut up" that's it? I was asked to help in that case. By the party in question. That is completely different from going in, unasked, demanding punishment and ridiculing people for not agreeing. This isn't helping anything. This should be more constructive. We can't go around telling people that if they fear for their safety in bringing up a complaint, that they should just know their place and stay quiet.

 

[Jamie]

No, it's you telling people what they have the right to say and what they should be offended about. Which is in effect a controlling expression of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Trying to be in control over everyone, being the sole arbiter of morality.

What the heck are you talking about? You're supporting the idea of someone having a Sex RP with a minor on a Zelda site by describing in detail what they'd do with them, and saying "DON'T INVADE THEIR SEX LIVES". I'm ****ing not. I'm saying this isn't the site for that, and also, sex with minors is illegal, but you're saying "well they can say literally anything they want as long as the targeted person is okay". Then why do we even have rules?

 

[Jirohnagi]

To think that I actually think that "I don't deserve" a warning" means you have not read any of my posts at all. I am merely saying that the rules in place with Zelda Dungeon don't exactly protect from this sort of thing. If this means changing the rules. Then fine. However, I brought up this issue not for me, but for others sake.

There needs to be a clear distinction of what may or may not be appropriate, and what is and isn't against the rules. As I didn't really break ZD's rules, as I have posted as to why above.

For example, you calling myself someone who would make sexual advances against a minor, it isn't very nice. Nor is it appropriate given the situation. Should you get a warning for this? No. Is it against the rules? No. It is merely what you think, and it is your thoughts. However socially unpleasant of a thought it may be, you are still allowed to have them, and voice them.

Actually you did clearly break the rules, again as i'd said before, in the Stay clean sub section it states all sexual crap stays in the MD, clearly things have been lacking in that area.

For example, you calling myself someone who would make sexual advances against a minor <=== i won't apologize for that because to be blunt when i saw what you posted that's is indeed what went through my head, the shock that someone i had respected and fairly liked as an individual would say something like that. I don't think you are personally in any situation to go on about appropriateness in that regard.

What i will apologize for is misconstruing your first post, i did go back a read it and i am sorry for not seeing what you intended in that post.

And no i don't think i should've said it but it did need to be gotten across, i won't deny i wasn't angry, mainly dealing with someone who thinks no is right for doing something they should do and then has in the past gone against what the profess. I will admit my temper got the best of me.

 

[Emma]

What the heck are you talking about? You're supporting the idea of someone having a Sex RP with a minor on a Zelda site by describing in detail what they'd do with them, and saying "DON'T INVADE THEIR SEX LIVES". I'm ****ing not. I'm saying this isn't the site for that, and also, sex with minors is illegal, but you're saying "well they can say literally anything they want as long as the targeted person is okay". Then why do we even have rules?

Uhm... for when they're not okay with it? The rules don't even cover explicitly this because they shouldn't. This is too subjective and manipulative of a thing to be in there. The actual rules that relate to how people are treated are more about treating everyone fairly and equally. If there's a joke between two people that you think is offensive..... well.... too bad. It's between them and none of your business. You're not treating people fairly by insisting that your own feelings and your own perceptions are more important than other people's. That is exactly what you're doing by demanding punishment for this. Going on about how offensive it is. It absolutely doesn't matter how offensive you think the joke is, it has nothing to do with you. Trying to manipulate people by using fear and shame to get your way doesn't help anything.

 

[Jirohnagi]

No, it's you telling people what they have the right to say and what they should be offended about. Which is in effect a controlling expression of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Trying to be in control over everyone, being the sole arbiter of morality.


Actually this has been hugely exaggerated. To Catch A Predator is not an objective source of legal information. It is a show with an agenda that tries to slant things towards that agenda. The law in question is not even a law, it's an agency policy that is very obscure and almost never enforced, and its constitutionality is questionable and hasn't always held up in court. It's filmsy. The only time you see it is in sting operations, and even then they can't actually bring criminal charges unless they gain actual evidence.

In any case, this obviously has nothing to do with this case. You're just going about how much you hate pedophilia and how evil anyone who questions the dogma around it are and how they want to hurt children if they don't agree. Suspiciously similar to radical feminist claims of anyone who criticizes their ideas on rape hate women and want women to raped even though that's not true). Instead of bogging up this thread with this obvious derailment, why not make an MD thread about pedophilla instead where you can go on about it.


That's an extremely dangerous precedent. Here you are joining on attacking someone for questioning the treatment they got, along with several others doing the same. And you are trying to insist that if they're too afraid to stand up for themselves they can't ask for help. "Too bad, shut up" that's it? I was asked to help in that case. By the party in question. That is completely different from going in, unasked, demanding punishment and ridiculing people for not agreeing. This isn't helping anything. This should be more constructive. We can't go around telling people that if they fear for their safety in bringing up a complaint, that they should just know their place and stay quiet.

What i don't support is that you are full of crap in this matter, my point is you claim that myself and the others had no right to report the incident when they had no right to post the comment yet you yourself defended someone for their issue.

You are literally preaching hypocrisy, you are stating right here and now that we shouldn't be defending the mods decision nor should we have reported what you seem to think of as a "harmless" comment yet you were willing to defend someone over the exact same thing. Like i said in this matter out of everyone that was both there and involved you have the least right to do anything

You say we have no right to do this but then you dived on in here to state we had no right. Again it's you who just dived on in.

It's reason like this why people say they are fine with an issue because they don't want it to become a deal, just because the original person said they were fine with it doesn't mean others are.

If you saw someone being raped do you have a right to report it? Yes you do.

If you saw someone making comments to what amounts to a child and the child went along with it would you say or do anything to prevent it Matt?

That is literally what it boils down to here, you are saying that because we witnessed someone make lewd comments to child about banging them we shouldn't say anything even though that is called accessory to it?

 

[Jamie]

Uhm... for when they're not okay with it? The rules don't even cover explicitly this because they shouldn't. This is too subjective and manipulative of a thing to be in there. The actual rules that relate to how people are treated are more about treating everyone fairly and equally. If there's a joke between two people that you think is offensive..... well.... too bad. It's between them and none of your business. You're not treating people fairly by insisting that your own feelings and your own perceptions are more important than other people's. That is exactly what you're doing by demanding punishment for this. Going on about how offensive it is. It absolutely doesn't matter how offensive you think the joke is, it has nothing to do with you. Trying to manipulate people by using fear and shame to get your way doesn't help anything.

I'm not talking about a joke. You're ignoring me. I'm talking about a hypothetical situation where someone ACTUALLY makes sexual advances on a 12 year old and they aren't offended by it. You're telling me "well, that's just their sex life." So where do we draw the line? What if they were 8 years old, still okay as long as they aren't offended by it? I'm pretty sure we'd universally agree that's emotionally manipulative.

Furthermore, even if you think it's totally okay to non-jokingly make sexual advances on an 8 year old, this still ISN'T A SEX SITE. It's a ZELDA site, and we have rules against that.