(OLD) Contest Unfair Infractions Here

[Emma]

Kitsu did give Dark Master a warning regarding the purple text, but otherwise I think we are beyond warnings with him. This has been going on for a long time, and he has a mountain of infractions. It is clear that warnings are not enough to stop him from breaking the rules. Kitsu did his job correctly not because of some grudge, but because he is genuinely concerned with the safety of the users. Dark Master is a threat to the safety of the people here, therefore he is being punished. I fail to see how Kitsu's actions are not justified.

He completely overstepped his bounds. For one, the conversation proves DM didn't do anything wrong. Also, no admin or mod is supposed to put out an infraction on their own without discussing it with the others first. And he did not seem to do that. He gave no justification for it and he had no justification. For either the earlier warning or the infraction.

 

[Vanessa28]

Kitsu did give Dark Master a warning regarding the purple text, but otherwise I think we are beyond warnings with him. This has been going on for a long time, and he has a mountain of infractions. It is clear that warnings are not enough to stop him from breaking the rules. Kitsu did his job correctly not because of some grudge, but because he is genuinely concerned with the safety of the users. Dark Master is a threat to the safety of the people here, therefore he is being punished. I fail to see how Kitsu's actions are not justified.

Not an official warning because then we mods should have been able to see that and for your information the latest infraction DM received was 3 years back. So to say a mountain of infractions is exaggerating. Let's keep it a bit realistic. There has been no communication about this at all so a little bit of information would have been great. And to call someone a threat to safety is something I would not dare to say about people I only know online or on a gaming forum.

 

[Snow Queen]

He completely overstepped his bounds. For one, the conversation proves DM didn't do anything wrong. Also, no admin or mod is supposed to put out an infraction on their own without discussing it with the others first. And he did not seem to do that. He gave no justification for it and he had no justification. For either the earlier warning or the infraction.

I'm not sure what exactly the rules are myself, but Kitsu did in fact give justification and evidence for the infraction. The fact of the matter is that Kitsu did the right thing, end of story. This is the reason the moderators here are so pathetic. Any time an infraction takes place and somebody doesn't like it, there is a big bru ha ha about it. This scares the staff from doing the right thing. It's the people who fail to see justice that are a threat. When the right thing is done we must accept it whether we like it or not.

 

[Justac00lguy]

Kitsu did give Dark Master a warning regarding the purple text, but otherwise I think we are beyond warnings with him. This has been going on for a long time, and he has a mountain of infractions. It is clear that warnings are not enough to stop him from breaking the rules. Kitsu did his job correctly not because of some grudge, but because he is genuinely concerned with the safety of the users. Dark Master is a threat to the safety of the people here, therefore he is being punished. I fail to see how Kitsu's actions are not justified.

There wasn't an official warning sent out to DM - which is usually the first course of action. Kitsu may have contacted him to stop using purple text or something but that's as far as I know.

I don't know where all these "warnings" are coming from. Maybe from DM's past time here, what, like 2, maybe more, years ago? I wasn't even a member then and either were you. I'm not one to judge on that time and I don't even really know DM all that well other than the whole purple text and his raer selda phenomenon. Anyway, past warnings (that of 2 or so years ago) don't apply here at this current moment. It's not a case of he's got several warnings and failed to abide. Whatever warnings and infractions that were given were a long time ago if they occurred, so he hasn't recently been informed about his actions on the forums.

Also, where he has he broke the rules time and time again? And how he is he putting people at risk? I've seen much much worse on the forums than the few examples I've seen of DM since his return.

 

[Vanessa28]

I'm not sure what exactly the rules are myself, but Kitsu did in fact give justification and evidence for the infraction. The fact of the matter is that Kitsu did the right thing, end of story. This is the reason the moderators here are so pathetic. Any time an infraction takes place and somebody doesn't like it, there is a big bru ha ha about it. This scares the staff from doing the right thing. It's the people who fail to see justice that are a threat. When the right thing is done we must accept it whether we like it or not.

We are a team. When someone takes actions out of their own without informing the other staff you can expect people to be cautious. This has nothing and absolutely nothing to do with people who fail to see justice. The fact is this is something that happened out of the blue. No discussion. I'm not saying Kitsu is a bad staff member nor am I saying he is abusing his powers but communication is something that is needed. When you're at work you also expect from your coworkers to tell them what you are doing so others know what to expect. Not doing things out of the blue.

 

[Snow Queen]

We are a team. When someone takes actions out of their own without informing the other staff you can expect people to be cautious. This has nothing and absolutely nothing to do with people who fail to see justice. The fact is this is something that happened out of the blue. No discussion. I'm not saying Kitsu is a bad staff member nor am I saying he is abusing his powers but communication is something that is needed. When you're at work you also expect from your coworkers to tell them what you are doing so others know what to expect. Not doing things out of the blue.

If somebody is clearly breaking the rules, why does there need to be a group huddle?

 

[Justac00lguy]

If somebody is clearly breaking the rules, why does there need to be a group huddle?

Because sometimes it's not always a case of an immediate infraction. When something is clear, such as a direct attack/threat or something like posting porn, then that's an easy decision and doesn't need any communication. Other situations aren't as crystal clear. One view may differ to another - a warning or an infraction, how many points? Etc.

 

[Snow Queen]

Because sometimes it's not always a case of an immediate infraction. When something is clear, such as a direct attack/threat or something like posting porn, then that's an easy decision and doesn't need any communication. Other situations aren't as crystal clear. One view may differ to another - a warning or an infraction, how many points? Etc.

Then have your group huddle and talk. I can guarantee that the result will be the same.
The infraction will stay.

 

[Justac00lguy]

Then have your group huddle and talk. I can guarantee that the result will be the same.
The infraction will stay.

Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Sometimes it is a case of getting confirmation, but no communication completely renders the idea of Mods, CCs, and Admins working together pointless. I really don't know where this came from, something as little as communication is something to complain about? It actually helps making the right decision.

 

[tketle]

I think it's pretty clear Dark Master did nothing wrong and Kitsu was acting on impulse (not unprecedented). The infraction should be reversed.

 

[Jamie]

I wasn't going to get very involved in this but I'll throw in my 2 cents. Should Kitsu have communicated with the staff members his decision? Absolutely, especially considering there have been numerous staff discussions about how to handle these situations and Kitsu has acted without discussion in the past. Does this constitute as power abuse? Absolutely not. Kitsu gave his reasoning and felt he was justified in giving the punishment that he gave to Dark Master. Was the punishment fitting of the actions? I don't want to get into that. But just because you disagree with his justification or you don't like the way he went about doing it doesn't mean he is abusing power. That phrase is thrown around way too often.

 

[Justac00lguy]

I don't agree with the decision, but yeah, I don't think it's "power abuse" or anything of that kind.

 

[Fraxinus]

I'm trying to stay neutral in this argument so I can see both sides clearly, but I was still a witness last night, so let me see... I still picked up a condescending undertone in DARK MASTER's post. It reads as if he's playing the victim, which probably is not the best thing to do, period. I also want to point out that if DARK was baiting anyone in the shoutbox last night, it was Kitkat himself. Let it be known that the tension between DARK and Kitkat is not a one-way thing. While DARK does present himself better on the forums (than on skype), to a degree, I could see why what he did last night was baiting. They have a history--I don't know the exact details, but I do think DARK knows how to get under Kitkat's skin, and relishes in it. The way I see it, DARK baited Kitkat by playing victim (in this case, I suppose the "sexual remark" thing was a little out-of-line, but it's technically still sexual). Kitkat clearly was already agitated by the conversation at hand, and as a witness to this, I do think DARK thrived on the opportunity to push him until he snapped.

So, while this was baiting, in my opinion, I do think the infraction should be reversed, because the entire situation last night was... I-don't-even-know. Any mod action that is taken by a moderator/admin who was a victim in a given scenario is usually branded as a vengeful act, regardless of how justified it is. I'm not saying this particular action was, but I know of some that were, and they still got questioned. I was uncomfortable with the topic because, one, it was out of the blue, and two, it went straight to sexual attraction rather than just general attraction. But, the only person who can dictate if that were sexual harassment would be Snow, which I think she was fine with the subject. DARK did offer to change the subject, which I thought was nice of him, since he detected that I was kind of on-edge. Either way, I think it'd be best to reverse the thing and move on. Covering an entire page of this thread over something as minor as this is kind of overboard, especially since from what I'm seeing, the sides are drawn based on who likes/dislikes the people involved, which I think is pretty childish.

We are a team. When someone takes actions out of their own without informing the other staff you can expect people to be cautious. This has nothing and absolutely nothing to do with people who fail to see justice. The fact is this is something that happened out of the blue. No discussion. I'm not saying Kitsu is a bad staff member nor am I saying he is abusing his powers but communication is something that is needed. When you're at work you also expect from your coworkers to tell them what you are doing so others know what to expect. Not doing things out of the blue.

It's difficult for this to happen late at night, especially if it's for something that probably requires immediate action. This goes back to the thing about there being no one else around, and relying on mod actions of the person who was attacked. Depending on how bad the situation was, the moderator (administrator, in this case) is usually a little shaken and as a result, the judgement is poor. This alone should be the reason for the reversal of the infraction. I don't necessarily think Kitkat should have to pay the consequences for this slip-up, though, because again, I can list quite a few examples of this happening with other mods, in which their actions usually ended up being out-of-line and later reversed without any punishment but a slap on the wrist. It's not power abuse, it's trying to enforce the rules despite not being in the right mind.

One last thing I'd like to add is that the shoutbox during the wee hours (in my timezone, it's the wee hours, so shush), usually ends up either really serious about touchy subjects (such as what happened with DARK and Snow) or really stupid and nonsensical (like 20x stranger than it is during the daytime). Since hardly anyone is online, these sort of conversations shouldn't be that big a deal. For this reason, what happened last night really caught me off-guard.

 

[Emma]

I'm trying to stay neutral in this argument so I can see both sides clearly, but I was still a witness last night, so let me see... I still picked up a condescending undertone in DARK MASTER's post. It reads as if he's playing the victim, which probably is not the best thing to do, period. I also want to point out that if DARK was baiting anyone in the shoutbox last night, it was Kitkat himself. Let it be known that the tension between DARK and Kitkat is not a one-way thing. While DARK does present himself better on the forums (than on skype), to a degree, I could see why what he did last night was baiting. They have a history--I don't know the exact details, but I do think DARK knows how to get under Kitkat's skin, and relishes in it. The way I see it, DARK baited Kitkat by playing victim (in this case, I suppose the "sexual remark" thing was a little out-of-line, but it's technically still sexual). Kitkat clearly was already agitated by the conversation at hand, and as a witness to this, I do think DARK thrived on the opportunity to push him until he snapped.

I feel I should point out that the entire conversation is logged in my post and that is not what happened. Refer back to it if you wish. Dark was carrying on a conversation and Kitsu attacked him unprovoked. There was no baiting whatsoever.

 

[Justac00lguy]

Well I don't expect (or think) any actions to be taken against Kitsu.

As an Admin/Mod etc. sometimes you are forced into making a decision and I guess a that time (the ZD dead hours) there was no other mod online to dicuss with (though it might have been best to give a warning). He made the decision and there have been occasions where, in the past, mods have made decisions on the spot. I disagree with the infraction, but I certainly don't think it's power abuse nor should it be punishable.