Xenoblade Chronicles Mafia: Destructive Reawakening

[Diego]

If I somehow become part of a group of people that lynched 3 townies in a row, then I EXPECT YOU GUYS TO LYNCH ME NEXT.
Nuff said

 

[Frozen Chosen]

Okay, allow me to translate for the rest of the human players: There's a curve in ALiT's activity. He never posts in any Day 1, but then she posts more as the days passes.
Awesome. We already knew that, thanks.
If he wants to stay alive, then he better spikes that activity curve, or else I'm extremely willing to send him to the graveyard with a banner on his cold body saying: "I should have talked in all this seven days"

And thanks for having your eye on me. At least is the only useful thing you seem to be able to provide me. Your eye.

So it says that you edited the post 40 minutes ago... Is that allowed? I forget. I know deleting posts is bad but what about editing?

 

[Diego]

I'm pretty sure editing for spelling errors is allowed.
If it's not, then I have no problem onto be punished by it in the way the GM believes to be necesary

 

[DekuNut]

It's, ah... usually punishable by death...

 

[DekuNut]

Although, since youre knew, the great god Crus may take pity upon your poor soul and grant you a one-time allowance with but a warning

 

[Ronin]

Generally, it isn't permitted to edit your posts.

Rules

• Do not edit your posts; instead double-post with EBWODP before your new message

However, I'd read Diego's post before it was edited and virtually none of the content was changed. That rule is in place so that later on down the road information can't be falsified (not implying that any player would do that), so technically Diego hasn't violated it. A mod, like JC, can look into the edit logs if necessary.

Double-posting to "correct" a spelling error is allowed and actually preferable so as to keep confusion to a minimum. I don't know how this is handled at ZU, but overall I'd like to keep this from happening again if at all possible.

Carry on.

 

[Diego]

Awesome. That's great to know.

 

[Frozen Chosen]

I wasn't sure either to be honest. Thanks for the clarification.

I'll post more about my thoughts on day one when I have more time tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Eoghan]

Deliberate silence is worse.

Vote: A Link in Time

You clearly have stated that you will punish inactivity and lynch people who won't post or are hiding, so let's say you lynch three Townies In a row who were inactive, would you carry on that plan the next day?

As I've said, an inactive lynch for day one is all I'd support. Until we have something (a flip or two), we're just hurting ourselves to kill one of the active ones.
Day 2 onward, I probably won't support a lynch of an inactive unless there's greater reason. Hold me to that.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

You seem to flip flopping a lot, is this because you're new to Mafia? Only reason I'm curious is that it's kind of making me think you're just going with the flow and using other people's reasonings. It can be perceived as scummy behaviour

Yeah, honestly I'm flip flopping because I'm trying to get people to post.

---

Putting the game aside, yes, I'm having issues figuring out how to play.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Also, I'm not using other people's reasonings, I am just agreeing with reasonings that I feel similar about.

 

[Diego]

Oh look who came here to play....
Sup A Link in Time?

 

[Ronin]

pkfroce (1) - pkfroce
Diego (1) - SavageWizzrobe
A Link In Time (5) - Rosa Luxemburg, Frozen Chosen, Diego, Spiritual Mask Salesman, Eoghan
Spiritual Mask Salesman (1) - musicfan

Day 1 ends on Sunday, July 26th, at 8:00 PM CST time. With 15 players, it takes 8 for a majority lynch.

 

[A Link In Time]

Hey, guys. I apologize for not posting in the last nearly four days in real life time.

Nope. I refuse to ignore what happens on Day 1. That's literally THE most anti-town strategy ever.

Why?

Because Day 1 is the only instance when the Mafia doesn't have the chance to coordinate nor create a believable cover for scummy actions. If we take everything as a joke on Day 1, then they are free to slip up without being punished by it.

If we are active, and start asking questions, no matter how silly they are, they will commit mistakes. they will say things that make no sense, and they will be punished.

That being said it only makes sense to me to start with the two first posters, who were also the two first votants.

Why did you voted? Random is not a good excuse, btw, and I will not accept it.

I agree with your statement that Day 1 events shouldn't be ignored, however, it isn't always wisest to piece together the puzzle haphazardly. It's much more valuable to return to early posts as the game progresses and new information is revealed.

There was a case like this in a mafia game here on ZD a few years back. Raindrop14 made a random vote for Vergo on the first day with a rather ridiculous reason as to why she was voting for him. Later on, she made a post asking people not to be rash about lynching JuicieJ, who turned out to be a member of the mafia. Raindrop's allegiance only became clear after several more in game days. Unfortunately, I can't link the post revealing the role of the aforementioned players due to the game mod of said game being banned, but you can confirm my statements by scrolling down page 52 of the game thread I linked the previous posts from.

I'll definitely return to take a closer look at how events pan out, but I firmly believe acting on intuition is a foolish strategy. Mafia members change up their strategies from game to game. A stale strategy is a predictable one.

---

The main thing I see after this is a debate about the merits of random votes on day ones. I can definitely vouch for the value of pressure votes to get people talking, but I'm not a fan of just throwing a name out there just for the sake of having voted. There was a period where I started most game with a random vote for Crus@der77x, but that was more of a running joke than anything else. That said, random votes have some value in that they gauge peoples' reactions to being voted for. Again, it's not information that I would necessarily use on day one, but it could prove useful as the game progresses.

Activity - specifically low activity - is a place where scum love to hide. Another way to read people (and possibly scum) is to find people in contradiction. Player 1 is highly critical of Player 2 in the first day, and the second day. By the third day they've completely backed off and don't interact with Player 2 any longer. Why? This is one example of catching contradictions. It could be they were scum trying to distance each other by throwing accusations. It could be Player 1 is a cop, finally investigated Player 2 and learned they're town. Regardless, we can read back over the day and notice their blatant inconsistency and we have a reason to question them.

I don't agree with the first sentence of this post, since, as I alluded to earlier, people can change their play styles and interactions from game to game, but the latter part of this paragraph raises a really good point. This is why I'm a proponent of not hastily acting on information, and instead returning to older posts as players die and their roles are revealed or a role claim is made. The example I linked above from Majora's Mask Mafia illustrates how a mafia member can distance themselves from his or her allies early on in the game under a "silly" pretext for voting.

Do not silence players because they're being talkative. That's punishing people for activity which is anti-town. If we silence our fellow players and make it a policy of casting suspicion on anyone who is trying to stir up activity, we encourage silence. This lets scum hide. This lets them remain in the shadows while they watch players they know aren't in their faction accuse each other and keep the heat off of themselves and their fellow mafioso. And if we call them out on that lurking - well, they can just say they had nothing to add because players X and Y were too busy going back and forth.

I agree and disagree. Discussion should be free flowing. A lack of discussion doesn't point to a sure conclusion, however. Townie power roles can also lurk in the shadows if their role is particularly valuable, such as a cop or a doctor. These people usually try to make just enough posts to be off peoples' inactivity radars but not enough to attract any unwarranted attention.

Anyway, I think it would be a mistake to lynch Diego this early on. If he's Town then it looks like we're losing a valuable asset. Even if Diego is wrong about Deku or Music, his attitude towards Mafia is very aggressive and it's what the Mafia hate (In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Mafia were planning to NK him). I honestly think you guys are misreading his intentions since he's new to ZD's flow to the game. He could definitely be Mafia playing a very risky Day One strategy, but that would be a reckless game plan in my opinion.

I'm fine with this for now. There's no way to determine his allegiance at present. There have been mafia members with his aggressive play style on ZD before, but if he is town, there definitely is a chance the mafia may target him tonight. Only time will tell.

Alit generally never posts on Day One, but that isn't an excuse so I'd like to hear from him since he could just be laying in wait.

I generally post a bit less on day one, because nothing of interest tends to happen in mafia games on ZD. This game is a clear exception. Since there has been activity at every point in this game, I foresee myself being active from here on out until I die.

I call bull****. No townie asks for the vigilante to nightkill their opressors, because chances are you're to blam by playing in a scummy way, and they are just townies doing their work.
No Townie gives up so early in the game, especially a "veteran" like you guys told me he is.
No Townie attacks active players for being pro-town...

I know it's hard to believe. This is indeed msuicfan's normal behavior, whether town or mafia. That said, he usually behaves this way later in game. Musicfan's decision to call the vig for back up is quite strange. Obviously, it won't work if he dies today, and he's mafia. If he's town, on the other hand, there's no reason for him to resign to his fate so early. I'm not willing to vote for musicfan at this juncture after his soft claim. If the cop investigates him, it will gives us more information. Of course, the cop should by no means claim if only one mafia member is discovered. They need to figure out another way to signal the players of possible scum. I only support the cop claiming if they can reveal at least half of the mafia members in a given game with their claim.

A lot has been said, but most of it about nothing particularly relevant. I also kind of skimmed because I'm kind of busy at the moment. Honestly my biggest suspect this game is JC. I'm going to outright say I have little basis for this. However, it just seems out of character for JC to be supportive to a new player and put so much weight on him, especially someone so arrogant, JC usually seems more cautious, and aggressive. Or is that just me? He honestly just seems to be off so far... I'll come back to you if I can find something more solid.

JC's behavior doesn't stand out to me. He's typically been against lynching inactives and he posts a lot during all phases of the game. This is exactly what you're describing when you refer to him as "cautious and aggressive".

@A Link In Time come out and play. You already had 5 days to post, yet you said nothing of value besides a random vote and some jokes regarding my name.
I don't buy the "Day 1 is useless so I will not post". I want you here.

I don't recall making jokes about your name. Anyhow, as I've repeated several times in this post, I myself have never said day one is useless. It's important to keep in mind as the game progresses and more information is revealed.

I would prefer to lynch A Link in Time basically because at the very least, Deku Nut was active, shady, but active, and I want to encourage that. On the other hand, A Link in Time is clearly not an inactive player, but rather a passive one. I'm not okay with that, not okay wit skipping Day 1, and not okay with taking no risks. It's not necesarilly a super scummy thing to do, but it is Anti-Town.

I think "passive" is a bit of a misnomer. I enjoy playing mafia like solving a puzzle. My activity in game increases exponentially from day to day as more information is revealed, and the pieces of the puzzle start to come together. What I do oppose is acting on impulse.

And yes, I know that my talking out against Diego right now will cause him to focus on me more, and that, if we let this go on and I do it again on a later day, I'll get lynched for fighting against the man who has led the town for days. This is why I don't like people taking charge. When they do, and if they're scum, the majority will keep following them, making them near-impossible to lynch and very easy for the scum to win. While I enjoy activity as much as the next guy, having someone like that who's both aggressive and looking to take charge makes me uneasy. Similar to what Rosa said, I've seen towns tear each other apart because a scum got in charge. I don't want to chance that, especially with someone I can't read.

My experience with "town" leaders has been mixed. Some are town and lead the rest of the townies to victory, some are town and completely flounder, and some are simply very deceptive mafia that are adept at role playing. I think everyone who has this type of play style has to be evaluated on an individual basis. I haven't played with Diego before this game, and I'm not sure whether his behavior will remain consistent or change with future game days. Everyone who's unconfirmed, which is basically everyone except maybe musicfan, should be treated with suspicion. Even then, we can't fully rely on a soft claim until it's hinted at or openly confirmed by a cop of other investigative ability.

Alit isn't inactive, though. She's passive and intentionally lying low. He posted a few times, I think. Once to cast a random vote on Rosa, then to make fun of my name (seriously, there was nothing more in that post) and a few more times just for the lulz of it.
As I said, I'm not okay with that. Is either that, or a different lynch. It's not necesary scummy behaviour, but it is extremely Anti-Town.
And I'm not having that. I never vote on someone unless I want to see them dead. And I want to see Alit dead

I'm extremely confused. I never made fun of your name. You're probably confusing me with someone else. All I did was reply to Rosa Luxemburg.

 

[Diego]

Yeah, I confused you with Spaceballs. I already appologied for it