Go_Dark_Link said:
So what to do. I want to be able to trust you Vergo, I really really do despite you not trusting me because it would mean the town can win the game right now. And I still feel that you’re probably in the cult. But your posts today have yelled nothing but mafia to me. I really hope I’m wrong, but here’s what I’ve been reading and the theory I’ve come up with which is another alternative to my theory yesterday:]
Hmm, you know, I want to be able to trust you, too. You’re a smart guy, and these really in-depth posts do a good job of conveying that. I still think you’re scum at this moment, but like I said at the beginning of the day – this day isn’t about you, nor should it be about whether or not you’re scum at the moment. I’ll at least attempt to spare you of the snide remarks I’d usually make throughout this response about how certain parts of your post are incredibly scummy, just because we have more sure options right now. There was a typo on my part in my post – I meant to say something to the effect of “I do acknowledge that Go Dark Link could be that single remaining townie”, which means I’m not sold on you yet. I really am sorry my posts scream “nothing but mafia” to you, but as you said yourself, I believe this might be you being a bit paranoid, as I was when I accused JC yesterday. I had convinced myself that I read through the lines, that I had seen something no one else could see, and that I was going to be the one that unraveled it and put an end to a dangerous mafia scheme. I was wrong, and I acknowledge that. I’ve made it to the final days of a game as town a grand total of one time – I hope I can use my behavior there as support for what I’m doing now.
Go_Dark_Link said:
You ask for a lot here, asking for trust with no evidence at all. Maybe on a not-lylo situation I would have an easier time understanding your sudden outburst in the game. But this just seems too convenient. “Guys, I swear I am town (even though I’m not) and I completely trust you (because I know you’re confirmed town and I want to lead you in the wrong direction) so trust me and lets win (and by lets I mean the mafia)!” So you see why I’m having a hard time giving you my trust just like that?]
Oh yeah, I am, I admitted that at the start. It’s probably shaky for the rest of the town to trust pretty much anyone at this point, but how about we reach a compromise here: You seemed convinced that I’m going to bus every single one of my fellow scumbuds, and then use that trust to stab you all in the back, right? Heroine has already claimed today, so unfortunately, I can’t. I can strongly hint at my previous role by saying that I’m incredibly confident in both a Big Octo and an Atticus lynch. I’ll claim tomorrow, give you absolute full details about everything, and then maybe we can reach an understanding. There’s that, but I also have to point out one thing, as it might do me some good – my “outbursts” at the end of a mafia game when I’m alive and when I’m town aren’t anything new. In fact, I first did this–
in the first mafia game on this forum . The town’s numbers were down, but we were close to having the rest of the scum cornered. I threw my trust on PJ(Austin) and Keyshe towards the end, and because we rallied, Hanyou, the Godfather, was lynched. One mafia member remained, and Keyshe thought I could be the one because I had “rallied” against the Godfather. She trusted me, we teamed up, and the town barely won the first game.
I actually advise everyone to read through the rest of that game, as the ending was quite spectacular. It’s the reason I’m still playing this internet game, actually.
So your sinking suspicion is something that happens a lot towards the endgame when the rest of the town is super paranoid about everything, granted, as I’m guilty of it myself (like I said above). And if you think I’m that one cunning mafia member going to lynch the entirety of his own for the sake of bolstering his own inflated ego (which I do tend to have on many occasions, how do you think I became a mod?), I’m flattered that you think I’d try to pull that, just as I was flattered when Keyshe accused me of it about four years ago. But as I said above, you don’t have to trust me completely today. Let’s assume you’re completely right; I’m mafia, and I’m leading you on a two-person mafia bus-throw-under. Do you have much to gain at all by not lynching one or the other? Do you really, really want to take that risk, risk the possibility that I’m not mafia once you lynch me, and the game ends right there? If you agree, at least, that Atticus is mafia, why would you not go along with her for today? Again, give me a chance here – I can claim tomorrow, and tell you every single little detail I know. I’m just as happy to lynch Atticus, as I’m almost as confident she’s mafia as Big Octo.
Go_Dark_Link said:
If I go by my gut belief when reading your posts, I am quite sure that there are three mafia names mentioned in there. Yes, just three, Vergo being the fourth. I’ll get to that in a second.
Well, I guess I’ll point you to what I said above. I do think it’s good of you to at least entertain the idea that both Big Octo and Atticus are mafia. But it looks like I’m going to have to play defense here against your new theory. But again, I feel that this statement strengthens the proposition that I made above – Don’t take the risk today that I’m not mafia, and have the game end. And I know what you may be thinking here – “He clearly knows that Big Octo is a townie, so he wants to lynch him to end the game using this one chance!”. Actually, no, I’m not advocating just a Big Octo lynch. I thought it would be easier to agree on due to Pendio wanting to do the same thing in the past. However, I’m just as happy to lynch Atticus. Pick one or the other,I honestly don’t care which one, as I’ll get my chance tomorrow to prove my trustworthiness to all of you. If this is my grand-scheme for a mafia win on this very day, I would have to focus on a single candidate that I know to be town, which I’m not doing. You’re a smart guy; I think you can realize that, if I was mafia, this isn’t the way to try and end the game today.
I do feel kind of like a jerk for pointing this out, but how did your last “hunch” go exactly? You were downright convinced that Fig was the Cult Leader, voted for an extension, and kept your vote on him. Fig was the exact opposite of the Cult Leader, and we functionally lost two townies thanks to efforts that you helped spear-head. Don’t take this the wrong way, but you remind me a lot of myself. You get an idea, you convince yourself it’s correct, and you write long posts to try and reinforce your confidence in said theory and hopefully convince others. Your track record isn’t the best with these kind of theories in this game, and sticking with the status quo of us putting stock into your “hunches” is going to do exactly what has been done in this game up to this point – absolutely nothing.
Go_Dark_Link said:
So again you appeal to the three members that it seems is now common belief must be town, trying to gain their trust. And you offer them two options. The way I see it, this is the perfect move for a mafioso. On one hand, offer up a member of your own mafia group, on the other a townie. If we lynch the townie, it’s done we lose mafia wins. But if we lynch the mafia member, then Vergo now has the trust of the town and can easily lead the town against the other option he offered the next day and still win, because they would still have the members. Lynch a mafia today, three remain, they kill a nonmafia at night, so now there’s seven living people. Mafia still only need one vote to gain majority, like today, so there is absolutely no disadvantage to lynching one of their own. This is what I fear, that mafia really has nothing to lose by lynching their own member, and they would gain everything from it.
You know, the only thing that annoys me about online mafia is how anything, quite literally anything, can be spun as scummy if someone tries hard enough. Hell, some thought Fig was scummy by telling the cop to lay low. Anything can be scummy if you really want it to be, and if you’ve convinced yourself that it’s scummy. Although I’ve already encapsulated the majority of my response in the above two points – again, let’s assume you’re right and I’m just a downright nasty manipulator who wants to win by getting all the town with me and collectively stabbing them all in the back; why would you not give me a chance to prove myself right tomorrow, and what exactly does the town lose by lynching Big Octo or Atticus? By all means, if one of them flips mafia, DON’T trust me just because of that, as it’s obvious that you won’t. You can sling all the mud and suspicions tomorrow at me if you’d like, provided the game isn’t over and I’m still alive. I’ll be able to fully defend myself, and hopefully I can convince you otherwise. I’ll point, once more, to the first mafia game, which will back up my tendency to make these propositions when I put the pieces together and know that the town can win. Did I know for sure that Keyshe and PJ were town? Absolutely not. But we were in a situation so close to this one, that we HAD to take a chance and work together if we wanted to win. I’m emulating this performance, hoping that we can stop what seems like a dominant mafia victory.
Go_Dark_Link said:
This is exactly what I started thinking as I read your posts today, seemingly being a knight in shining armor and swooping in to lead the town to victory. And I hope you truly are town, or at least a cult member. But I’m having trouble picturing that now.
Ew, there’s absolutely no way I’d ever be a Knight, they’re just a bunch of inactive elitist who instill pointless hierarchy systems among the rest of us.
/tasteless forum politics joke
I guess there’s not much serious to say about this part, because I’ve already covered all of this above. I only do this kind of thing at the end when I think it’s possible to pull out a close victory. I honestly play mafia on this forum just because of games like this, where everything is down to the wire.
Go_Dark_Link said:
Firstly, YES it is extremely likely a mafia member would attempt a rally like this at the last possible second! You said it yourself, none of them are dead. They have enough power that all they need now is one single vote. Just one town or cult member that they manage to lead into their trap, and they can win the game. What good would it do the mafia? By coming in and offering “salvation” like this, taking control of the situation, they have so many more chances of leading a town member astray. In fact, I would even dare to say that for mafia at this point to not come in and take control would be outright stupid. They have more members than the town alone AND the cult alone. They know town would need to unite with the cult to beat them, but since town has no idea who the cult even is they need only push them in one way or another to cause a mislynch. It’s not rocket science, it’s basic logic!
Let’s look EXACTLY how this game has played out so far – incredibly and just downright dastardly inactivity on the part of all but a select few. The mafia’s strategy, leave us to hunches like YOUR’S that get Lovers lynched, has been incredibly effective up to this point. Just why oh why on earth would that change here at the end when they have the extreme advantage? And why, would they send ME to do this on top of what I accomplished yesterday? You’re ignoring one important fact – I prevented that justac00lguy lynch yesterday. Despite the extension, Thareous had the bright idea of still voting for JC, when he was so very obviously not mafia at that part due to the combination of two claims. Why would I not let JC die, if my grand master plan was to swoop in at this last second and try to manipulate all of you? Why would I advocate, THE ENTIRE TIME, that I thought the Fig lynch was a terrible idea if it was going to be so easy to just let him be lynched (Fig is waaaaaaay easier to convince than JC, at least trust me on that)? I thought both of those choices were terrible, and here’s the difference between what you and I have done in the game so far – I was right, and you were wrong. JC isn’t mafia, and Fig wasn’t mafia. So tell me one thing, exactly – what makes you credible at all? Sorry if this is devolving, but this is true. Your theories, your speculation, and the wild assumptions you’ve made to this point and included in this post do absolutely nothing for you when it comes to any of your theories having water at all. But I digress, I’ve side-tracked. Color me this: Why would I appeal just to these confirmed townies, collectively, in the first place if I had the entirety of the mafia to back me up? Is it really worth appealing to all three of them, and trying to get them to trust each other? If I’m mafia I WANT them all confused, and I’d use just a few of them coupled with my own mafia votes to get my dirty work done. These scenarios that you’re playing through your head trying to justify truly do depend on far, far more things falling into place that just aren’t happening as opposed to my simple, simple suggestion that we team up and lynch Atticus or Big Octo. Again, call me a liar to my face tomorrow, and don’t trust me at all. But don’t try to rationalize these wild ideas when the alternative is something simple that’s far less risky. It’s basic logic.
Go_Dark_Link said:
Except we don’t only lose if the mafia confuses us and divides us.
You most certainly lose, 100%. Again, just look at this game; we’ve all blundered about with pointless lynches with no backbone to them, being left to our own, DIVIDED devices in hope that one of us just randomly stumbles across a lucky break and something happens. News flash: That hasn’t worked. At all. You’re advocating the status quo where we punish the people attempting to salvage this game, where we lynch someone based on being “too townie” with stretches in logic that could feasibly only happen in one’s imagination. Your ideas and theories haven’t worked, GDL, and your individualistic approach to how we should attempt to salvage this game points to either an extremely paranoid townie, or a very, very skilled mafia player (I still think you’re the latter).
Go_Dark_Link said:
I’m thinking Vergo’s trying to subconsciously introduce the idea that we should lynch Big Octo rather than Atticus, because Atty is the mafia and Big Octo is town/cult. But that’s just my guess.
No, not at all. I, personally, am nearly positive of Big Octo’s scummy-ness, but if you think Atticus is a better choice, let’s do that instead. I’m not trying to “sub-consciously” imply anything to you or others in a wild attempt to end this game right here and now. My fault with Big Octo is that 1.) I have reason to strongly believe he’s mafia, moreso than Atticus, and 2.) It seemed at the beginning of this day we could all reach a satisfying conclusion with Big Octo as opposed to Atticus. But if lynching Atticus instead with give you some sort of peace of mind, let’s do that instead. When I’m either night-killed or able to claim, you’ll understand that they’re both mafia and they should both be lynched.
Go_Dark_Link said:
You have a better chance of winning by trust us?
DekuNut said he wasn’t sure about any of us, as backed up by his vote staying on JC yesterday. You and I both know Deku decides this game, and we both know that whoever convinces him today wins. I need him to trust in others. Why else would I work so hard to get JC and Heroine in the safe light?
Go_Dark_Link said:
I would’ve thought by this you meant JC, Heroine, and you, but considering JC and Heroine haven’t openly stated whether they trust you or not… could you mean by trusting /you/, the mafia?
This is where I absolutely start to think that you have anti-town intentions in mind. JC and Heroine have BOTH said they’re erring on the side of me not being mafia, same as you, actually. You seem to be grasping at extreme straws here, when there’s a perfectly logical reason for me to attempt to get Deku, JC, and Heroine to all trust each other as, again, opposed to your view that we should all do our own thing and hope for the best because we can’t POSSIBLY trust someone in a do-or-die situation.
Go_Dark_Link said:
No, we have absolutely no chance of winning by voting by ourselves. But if you truly are supporting the town, Vergo, then you have to let us discuss all possibilities, and yes form an alliance of trust among each other to win, but not just lead us into what may very well be a trap. I might be one of your suspected mafia, but like I said I really want to believe you are not lying.
This is preposterous. I’ve left the door open to several theories, including yours above when I was humoring you for the sake of not brushing you off. I have never, ever said that must follow a single action or accept a single theory that isn’t likely; as I said above, please, lynch either Big Octo or Atticus, I honestly have no real reason for wanting one or the other dead before the other. Make your choice, make your own decision. I’m “truly supporting the town” by doing the last thing we can do at this point – working together and having to go out on a limb and trust others. Your alternative, apparently because of the quote below, is to lynch me based on a hypothetical situation you’ve formulated in your head dealing with me manipulating all of you. If you don’t take anything else away from this response, please take this – let me either claim, or let me be night killed. Lynching me seals the town’s fate.
Go_Dark_Link said:
That and the fact that it is lylo and a vote would be taken advantage of at this point is the only reason why I’m not voting you.
Exactly what I expected, to be honest. I don’t have much more to say in response to this. If I’m not lynched today, I die during the night, and this game isn’t over, I hope this acts as your final indictment.
Go_Dark_Link said:
So to the other townies I say slow down, stop and breathe. Take everything into account before you make a move. I am thinking very hard on this. If you want to know who I think is the best candidate for a lynch (apart from Vergo) it’s Pendio. But I’m not sure if anyone thinks my suspicions are valid. Everything I’ve said in this post might be considered paranoia, I guess, but we’re on the verge of losing. And when that happens I tend to be as cautious as possible. And for me right now that means not being able to trust Vergo.
Absolutely no one, I repeat, NO ONE, is trying to hurry up and speed lynch anyone, so I have no idea where this is coming from. If I wanted this to be fast and quick, I would’ve voted as soon as I thought JC and Heroine thought me to more likely than not be town. The fact that you think Pendio or me are the best lynch candidates, not giving a thought at all to Big Octo or Atticus, furthers the notion that you clearly don’t like what’s going on here, and you’re desperately trying to change course. Which is what the mafia wants right now for sure.
I don’t trust you in the slightest, because you’re a brand new player who’s obviously very intelligent and knows what he’s doing. I’ll reiterate once more –
If you’re town, please, don’t take the risk of lynching me today. Make a much safer lynch that nearly everyone agrees on, and let me better prove myself either tonight or tomorrow.
