Spoiler Wierd Changes in the Zelda World

[j-pod89]

When I played the part in Tp when you're in "old kakariko", I figured that it was the kakariko from Oot. But I noticed that there wasn't death mountain right there. That sort of made me change my thoughts. But after a while of thinking, I realized that it's very possible. In this post, whenever I say something's similar, or it's way different, I'm comparing and contrasting about Oot. Okay? Okay.

Let's look at the changes of Hyrule from the beginning of the game so we don't get lost. Remember the springs. They aren't in Oot. Come to think of it, hyrule wasn't even close to as big as it was in Oot. For one, there weren't the provinces. There wasn't even a Ordon village or a faron woods. I guess they replaced Kokiri forest with it. What happened to the kokiri anyway? Who knows? Maybe the reason Hyrule is so big is because they attacked other countries. Anyway, we move on to Eldin province. This Kakariko has no grass for one thing. It's sort of like a dessert. It's obviously bigger then the kakariko in Oot (what isn't?). The graveyard is similar. Also death mountain is there. It's similar when you scale it as well. Remeber that because were coming back to it. Next is Lanayru. It's MASSIVE! Even castle town is there. Zoras domain is similar to it's counterpart from Oot. But once again, it's bigger. Next we go to Gerudo dessert. First off, I want you guess if it's bigger or smaller then Oot's gerudo dessert. Obviously, it's bigger. When you enter it in Oot, it;s sort of like a canyon. However in TP you get shot out of a cannon and land there. From what i've seen, you can't leave unless you warp. Maybe i'm wrong but who cares? Anyway, the bulblin fortress is nothing like the gerudo fortress. It's bigger (who would have thought!) and it's mostly made of wood. The gerudo fortress is mostly made out of stone. That's probobly because the gerudo are far more inteligent (did i spell that right?) then the bulblins. Plus they had ganondorf at there side. So there's one thing we've seen with every province: everythings bigger. I was going to finish this one but i can't. Anyways, I only got a few more things to say so i'll finish it in another thread.

I forgot that you can edit posts so i'm gonna do that. I already have comments so i'll just say what I think about what some of you said. So first, old kakariko. Somebody said that it isn't the same one from Oot. Where does it say that? And i've seen the video walkthrough for TP here at zelda dungeon and I think that caleb says that it's the same kakariko from Oot. I may be wromg but from what I can remember, that's what he says. Somebody said that there was an earthquake or something that caused hyrule to change it's landscape. That's exactly what I think. Maybe a natural disaster happened and they had to replace castle town. Remember, the tempe of time was in castle town in Oot. But in TP, it's in Faron. That makes it pretty clear that castle town was in faron in Oot (if they had provinces). So that's pretty much it. Hope this helps!

 

[T Edoc]

TP geography is always a cool topic! ;-)
Everything's bigger, and strangely, there are canyons/crevasses everywhere in the land. So, a few friends and I have advanced a theory from an idea I had read somewhere, and which is that the land has changed due to some sort of earthquake / tectonic activity(ies). Which would explain why everything's bigger, why Death Moutain is not at the exact same place, why the mountain looks weird, why both Kakariko villages are kinda desertic, why there are three rivers instead of one, why Lake Hylia is lower, and why the desert is cut from the rest of the world. In fact, maybe the big goal of some earthquake was to cut the desert from people who would eventualy come to play with the (spoiler) mirror (spoiler). So maybe the earthquake was a cataclysm, like the flood in the Adult Timeline (WW etc.), possibly caused by the Godesses too.

 

[Djinn]

Unfortunately I believe the typical explanation for the growing size of the landscape would be due to later technology by the game developers and more memory allowed to add greater content to the game. However that is never interesting. So the addition of separate provinces and towns to the landscape of Hyrule could most likely be due to the success of the land. TP did take place after OoT so the population could have grown allowing for more growth. And when the population grows then they move further out requiring more villages which could be more easily governed by separating Hyrule into separate provinces.

Also Hyrule is a land separated multiple tribes that do not always get along. Plus there are threats from the Moblins, Bulblins, and various monsters. So it could be possible that a successful raid caused people to desert old Kakariko to settle in a safer area and build a new one or move to Castle Town.

And while some things stay relatively the same, with Death Mountain in the north East and the Gerudo Desert in the west (as long as we are using the GCube version anyway) Lake Hylia and Zoras Domain move around between OoT and TP. How these moved cannot easily be explained. Water routes do change over time but definitely not in the time between OoT and TP. The Zora could also have moved their society due to population pressures or need to a safer location. The domain in OPoT was much smaller than the one in TP. There really is no more space for a larger population already. Plus they were easily defeated by Ganondorf and Jabu Jabu cursed. They might have moved to a different area that was not accessible in OoT for defense reasons. Or to be a little more hidden from Hylian encroachment since they seemed to be spreading out at the same time.

And as far as the size of the landscape I have assumed that we were always supposed to believe that it was much larger than it appeared in OoT. If we look at a map of OoT, Hyrule does appear to be tiny. But in game time it can take Link about a day to make it from one side of Hyrule field to the other. I think we are supposed to pretend that a larger area is being crossed in that time.

 

[T Edoc]

@Djinn : I think the lake Hylia changed place cause the river sepratated and changed place.
But you're right for the land of Ocarina of Time, it's sure meant to be bigger (in TP too, which if we consider the time Link takes to travel by feet from the very north to the very south in game days, that Hyrule is probably 300 km long North-South).

 

[Locke]

"Old Kakarico" isn't OoT's Kakariko. Kakariko is Kakariko. The one next to Death Mountain with the graveyard and such. Old Kakarico was said to have been founded by Impa, while Impa was said to have grown up in Kakariko. You can't found the town you grew up in.

Remember the springs. They aren't in Oot.

Gameplay

Come to think of it, hyrule wasn't even close to as big as it was in Oot.

The games never (except possibly TP and WW) depict the actual size of the land. Just as they never display every individual who lives there as an NPC (how can the race be so great and have survived so long yet have so few people? answer: only a few are important for the gameplay and atmosphere).

There wasn't even a Ordon village

Ordon Province is not part of Hyrule, so it wasn't depicted in OoT.

What happened to the kokiri anyway?

They weren't important to the gameplay.

Most of the geographical changes were because they wanted to create a more expansive overworld for gameplay purposes. To explain these changes in-universe, one could referece beta intent, or something like an earthquake or similar fanfic.

 

[T Edoc]

@Locke64 : The Impa of OoT ''opened the village to common people''. She grew in it when it was a Sheikah village, then she 'founded' it for the common Hylian people.

It's cool that you agree that the actual land's size is never shown, cause that's a notion several people have trouble to accept. :-)

Of course they care of the gameplay before everything, but if you make some searchs, you'll find interviews in which Eiji Aonuma dn Shigeru Myamoto state that they have a main document containing the events that took place in Hyrule, and the order of the games in the timeline. They have written such documentation for themselves, just like J.K. Rowling with Harry Potter or J.R.R. Tolkien with Lord of the Rings.

 

[Pinecove]

@Locke64 : The Impa of OoT ''opened the village to common people''. She grew in it when it was a Sheikah village, then she 'founded' it for the common Hylian people.

No that's wrong.

The Hylian people were already in the village by the time of OoT, and in TP the hidden village is not open to people except the sheikah at all. The only way she could have founded the village was by building it, and seeing as how she was born and grew up in Kakariko.....

 

[T Edoc]

At the foot of Death Mountain you will find my village, Kakariko. That is where I was born and raised. - Impa, Ocarina of Time

This village used to be a Sheikah village, but the great Impa opened it to everyone. - Soldier in Kakariko Village, Ocarina of Time

Zelda's attendant, the great Impa, opened this village to the common people. - Soldier at the entrance of Kakariko Village, Ocarina of Time

I am the boss of the carpenters that Impa hired to improve this village and make it into a true city! - Boss of the Carpenters, Ocarina of Time

My name comes from the great one who built this village so long ago... - Impaz, Twilight Princess

This village was once the secret home of a proud tribe who served the royal
family... - Impaz, Twilight Princess

Plus, if you use the Hylian Alphabet translation sheet (authentic), you can read ''Welcome to Old Kakarico'' on the sign at the entrance of the Hidden Village in Twilight Princess. Several people said the ''C'' instead of ''K'' was the proof it's not the Kakariko Village of OoT, but of course, that sign's been written by Japanese people, not by the Nintendo of America translators. Just like the walls of the Sacred Grove say ''Sanctuary'' instead of Sacred Grove, and ''Copy Rod'' for Dominion Rod.

It's hard to know what's true... She says 'built', but what Kakariko could be 'old' when it's more recent?

 

[Non-Epic]

You know, if we try, we could rotate OOT's Hyrule, and change a bit, and it will be almost exactly like TP. Just a guess, someone try.

 

[Djinn]

You know, if we try, we could rotate OOT's Hyrule, and change a bit, and it will be almost exactly like TP. Just a guess, someone try.

This has been studied a few times in the past. Even on this site. http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2010/05/hyrule-geography-and-cartography/
There are similarities. And things are generally kept in the directions of the map, although not perfectly placed in the same location.

I thought this was an interesting discussion on the various Hyrule Maps and their similarity.
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums...499-st-hyrule-is-alttp-fsa-tmc-loz-aol-7.html
Scroll down some and you will see that someone has placed most of the maps together for comparison.

 

[Pinecove]

Plus, if you use the Hylian Alphabet translation sheet (authentic), you can read ''Welcome to Old Kakarico'' on the sign at the entrance of the Hidden Village in Twilight Princess. Several people said the ''C'' instead of ''K'' was the proof it's not the Kakariko Village of OoT, but of course, that sign's been written by Japanese people, not by the Nintendo of America translators. Just like the walls of the Sacred Grove say ''Sanctuary'' instead of Sacred Grove, and ''Copy Rod'' for Dominion Rod.

It's hard to know what's true... She says 'built', but what Kakariko could be 'old' when it's more recent?

I'm sorry, but I'm going with the word "built" along with the graveyard, the well and the direct connection to death mountain, over a sign and some weird logic. No offence, but it's REALLY hard to get around the word "built."

 

[j-pod89]

I'm glad that I caused some commotion. My next thread will have to be good.

 

[T Edoc]

@LinkedTHRULife : You know, what you say is not all wrong. Nearly all the maps of the games have precise cardinal directions : Up is North and so on. All of the maps except one : Ocarina of Time. The compass rose on it has a dark arrow that doesn't point up, and the mention 'N'. If we refer to that mention, Lake Hylia is south and Kakariko Village is North... (in Ocarina of Time, that is)

@Pinecove : Interresting that now you leave the original references made by the Japanese to give credence to the english translations of the dialogues... :-/

 

[Djinn]

I might as well link the image here as well since it is a large part of the discussion. But thank Nerushi on Zelda Universe for it's creation.

There are still some similarities between the maps of OoT, TP, and LttP. The Desert is still in the west, the Waterfall and Zora'a domain is still in the relative northeast of Hyrule Castle, and Lake Hylia is still south of Hyrule Castle.The positions of the Lost woods and Death Mountain seems to change slightly per title. The Lost woods moved from the northwest in LttP, to the southeast in OoT, to roughly sough in TP. While Death Mountain slowly migrated east.

 

[Pinecove]

@Pinecove : Interresting that now you leave the original references made by the Japanese to give credence to the english translations of the dialogues... :-/

This IS the Japanese. DO NOT critisize me on something you obviously haven't taken the time to look at:

Edit: Sorry if that sounded harsh.

私は、この村に住むインパルという者です
I am Impal, the one who lives in this village.

その昔、この村をおつくりになった偉い御方の名前をもらいました・・・
My name comes from the great one who built this village so long ago…

Source: http://forums.zeldainformer.com/topic/5425-japanese-re-translations/page__p__94915&#entry94915

@The image above:

1. The lost woods seem to indefinitely be some sort of woods that surround all of Hyrule (we just access them in different places in each game - hence why they always lead to different places.)
2. Zora's domain seems to be a different one in TP than anywhere else (like in ALttP or OoT - of coarse if ALttP comes after ST, that point is moot).
3. Mt. Crenel is almost certainly Death Mountain: