What Happens to One World Happens to the Other?

[Retro Ganon]

SAHASRAHLA, IN SWAMP PALACE:

Link, it is I, Sahasrahla.
Objects in the Light and Dark
Worlds mimic one another.

If the form of a thing changes
in one world, it will change the
shape of its twin in the other.


I was thinking about this when playing through TWW recently. The game does note the existence of the Dark World when the KoRL is talking to Link about Ganondorf.

So I was wondering if this means the Dark World is flooded just as Hyrule is during TWW? And if so, does this mean the Dark World is destroyed, thus nonexistent after TWW?

I'm not sure if Ganon's makai only reflected that of Hyrule's continent/country or the entire globe. If the latter, then maybe I'm answering my own question here. lol

 

[Shadsie]

Hmm. Interesting idea...

I honestly don't think Nintendo gave much thought to it. That could be a concept demanding fan fiction... (darn it, I want to work on my original thing right now, I've got to stop getting cool ideas from people)!

 

[Retro Ganon]

Well, that's why they call it a theory?

I'm speaking in theoretical terms concerning how the Zelda Universe canon works. Fanfiction would imply I'm not using canon to support my theory.

 

[Pinecove]

So I was wondering if this means the Dark World is flooded just as Hyrule is during TWW? And if so, does this mean the Dark World is destroyed, thus nonexistent after TWW?

Eh I wouldn't go that far. The reason things happen like Sahasrahla says is because the DW in ALttP is parallel to Hyrule whereas in other games it is not.

 

[ChargewithSword]

Eh I wouldn't go that far. The reason things happen like Sahasrahla says is because the DW in ALttP is parallel to Hyrule whereas in other games it is not.

That doesn't seem true. In FSA, the Dark World has affected the real world when trying to solve puzzles.

 

[Shadsie]

Well, that's why they call it a theory?

I'm speaking in theoretical terms concerning how the Zelda Universe canon works. Fanfiction would imply I'm not using canon to support my theory.

I wasn't calling your idea fan fiction. I am sorry you mistook my words for that.

I was merely saying that I found the theory *inspiring.* You see, writing fan fiction is one of my major hobbies. I get ideas from everywhere and I was just saying - "Hey this idea would be interesting to explore in writing," not that it was somehow invalid.

 

[Retro Ganon]

Eh I wouldn't go that far. The reason things happen like Sahasrahla says is because the DW in ALttP is parallel to Hyrule whereas in other games it is not.

How is the continent of Hyrule not parallel to the one within the 'Dark World' after its creation in OoT?

Unless we're falling back on OoT =/= the SW or Ganon's Makai reflects the entire globe which Hyrule is a small/large part of?

I wasn't calling your idea fan fiction. I am sorry you mistook my words for that.

I was merely saying that I found the theory *inspiring.* You see, writing fan fiction is one of my major hobbies. I get ideas from everywhere and I was just saying - "Hey this idea would be interesting to explore in writing," not that it was somehow invalid.

Ah... I see. Well, no offense taken.

 

[Pinecove]

That doesn't seem true. In FSA, the Dark World has affected the real world when trying to solve puzzles.

Yes, but that DW isn't confimed to be the SR.

How is the continent of Hyrule not parallel to the one within the 'Dark World' after its creation in OoT?

In OoT the Sacred realm is not parallel to Hyrule because Ganon's wish has not come into effect yet.

Unless we're falling back on OoT =/= the SW or Ganon's Makai reflects the entire globe which Hyrule is a small/large part of?

Even if OoT is still the SW, it doesn't involve the Ganon from OoT. Henceforth, AlttP's Ganon's wish doesn't come into effect yet.

At any rate, I retract my previous statement regardless: things are affected in ALttP because Ganon is breaking/has broken the seal of the sages.

 

[Retro Ganon]

In OoT the Sacred realm is not parallel to Hyrule because Ganon's wish has not come into effect yet.

Then you mean to imply that OoT is not the SW.

Part of the reason I feel FSA Dark World is a make up of ALttP is because in the Palace of Winds we see statues of Ganon in both worlds. I already stated by theory of the Dark World, Light World, and Twilight Realm mixing together in the Dark Tribe thread, so it would be pointless to carry on that debate here until I formally address it there.

Even if OoT is still the SW, it doesn't involve the Ganon from OoT. Henceforth, AlttP's Ganon's wish doesn't come into effect yet.

What???

 

[Pinecove]

Then you mean to imply that OoT is not the SW.

I never said that, although that is my stance on the case right now.

I'm saying OoT Ganondorf =/= ALttP Ganondorf, hence OoT attempted wish =/= ALttP wish.

What???

ALttP doesn't connect to OoT directly anymore.

Aka: OoT-ALttP-TWW/PH-ST is impossible.

Do you get what I'm saying?

 

[Retro Ganon]

I never said that, although that is my stance on the case right now.

Which was the inclination and why I pointed out the obvious based on other debates going on.

I'm saying OoT Ganondorf =/= ALttP Ganondorf, hence OoT attempted wish =/= ALttP wish.

I agree and understand the first part. Though when you say OoT's attempted wish, do you mean to say that because Ganondorf did not get the True Force that his wish was not fully fufilled? If that's the case, then it seems to still match up to ALttP's account for the wish because Ganon didn't get to rule the entire world like he wanted to either.

ALttP doesn't connect to OoT directly anymore.

I might concede here, yet what I have witnessed in other debates elsewhere... it seems some people believe OoT and FSA sort of skew the SW concept into different phases, distorted by time, etc.

Aka: OoT-ALttP-TWW/PH-ST is impossible.

Do you get what I'm saying?

I believe so. Though I'd never put ALttP there in a timeline anyway. lol

 

[Pinecove]

I agree and understand the first part. Though when you say OoT's attempted wish, do you mean to say that because Ganondorf did not get the True Force that his wish was not fully fufilled? If that's the case, then it seems to still match up to ALttP's account for the wish because Ganon didn't get to rule the entire world like he wanted to either.

In OoT Ganondorf only got the Triforce of power, so he never got a wish on the Triforce. That's why he kidnaps Zelda and tries to kill Link:To get the Triforce. Same in TWW.
In ALttP Ganon gets his wish on the Triforce.

Different scenarios entirely.

I might concede here, yet what I have witnessed in other debates elsewhere... it seems some people believe OoT and FSA sort of skew the SW concept into different phases, distorted by time, etc.

That still involves different seals and different Ganons.

Relating this back to the original argument: ALttP's Triforce wish is what turned the Sacred Realm parallel to Hyrule. Since OoT does not feature the same Ganon or the same wish as ALttP, it does NOT act parallel until ALttP...which kind of makes you ask yourself how in hell FSA's DW can be ALttP's DW unless Ganon got a wish in FSA which isn't implied by any of the statues. In FSA The Ganon statues don't have a Triforce but in ALttP they do.

FSA:

ALttP:

DW =/= MGW.

 

[Retro Ganon]

In OoT Ganondorf only got the Triforce of power, so he never got a wish on the Triforce. That's why he kidnaps Zelda and tries to kill Link:To get the Triforce. Same in TWW.
In ALttP Ganon gets his wish on the Triforce.

Different scenarios entirely.

Ganon got his wish to rule Hyrule in OoT.

Since Ganon's entire mission from OoT to TWW is reclaiming the lost two parts of the Triforce to fulfill his entire wish to rule the world, I don't have reason to see a difference between the two scenarios. Ganon finally succeeds some time after FSA, obviously.

That still involves different seals and different Ganons.

Relating this back to the original argument: ALttP's Triforce wish is what turned the Sacred Realm parallel to Hyrule.

Considering we are indirectly using some beta canon from FSA original script (which I don’t see as canon, but I’ll humor the idea for theory sake) to assume the game as the SW, I want to use a bit of my own from TP to prove the two Ganons relate to each other.

Removed Lines from Ganondorf’s Last Words

Source http://forums.legend...h...st&p=394045

QUOTE
[FONT=&quot]選ばれし力を持つ者が現れる時[/FONT]
When one who holds the chosen power appears...
When the chosen ones appear...

[FONT=&quot]必ず、その対極を成す者が生まれ出ん[/FONT]
Necessarily, one to accomplish the antithesis of that will be born.
They are always born into this world in perfect balance.

[FONT=&quot]それが、お前達が信じる神が与えた紋章を持つ者の運命だ[/FONT]
That is the fate of those who bear the crests that were awarded by the gods you believe in.
That is the destiny of the chosen. That is the fate decreed by your gods, the only path for those who bear their crests.

[FONT=&quot]この世に紋章を持つ者が現れる限り[/FONT]
Whenever those bearing the crests appear in this world...
When this world brings forth another marked as you are...

[FONT=&quot]何度でも、流血の時代が訪れる[/FONT]
An age of bloodshed will come, as often as need be.
Know too, that it shall also be visited by one of my blood.

[FONT=&quot]これで、全てが終わったと思うなよ[/FONT]
Do not think everything ends with this...
Do not think this ends here...

[FONT=&quot]これが、光と闇の血塗られた歴史の始まりだと思え！[/FONT]
Think of this as the beginning of a bloodsmeared history of light and darkness!
The history of light and shadow will be written in blood!

This is fulfilled by the events of FSA, and relates somewhat to the Great Cataclysm prophesy of ALttP . If the corrupted SR of OoT turns into a makai, it makes sense why this Ganon is attracted to it (even if he’s not the original maou ruler).

Since OoT does not feature the same Ganon or the same wish as ALttP, it does NOT act parallel until ALttP...which kind of makes you ask yourself how in hell FSA's DW can be ALttP's DW unless Ganon got a wish in FSA which isn't implied by any of the statues. In FSA The Ganon statues don't have a Triforce but in ALttP they do.

DW =/= MGW.

The fact that the SW would be FSA or occur some time after it to lead into ALttP, this doesn't affect the statues having the Triforce or not.

Ganon has statues in the Dark World implying his dominion over the domain. How he gets the entire Triforce between FSA and ALttP is a fan restriction. Ganon certainly wouldn't have a problem replacing the torch with a Triforce after the fact.

 

[Pinecove]

Ganon got his wish to rule Hyrule in OoT.

No, he conquered Hyrule using the ToP.

Since Ganon's entire mission from OoT to TWW is reclaiming the lost two parts of the Triforce to fulfill his entire wish to rule the world, I don't have reason to see a difference between the two scenarios. Ganon finally succeeds some time after FSA, obviously.

But why would he do that if he already ruled the world? You can only wish on the Triforce once.

And Ganon in FSA =/= Ganon in OoT as that Ganon dies in both TWW and TP.

The fact that the SW would be FSA or occur some time after it to lead into ALttP, this doesn't affect the statues having the Triforce or not.

Yes it does affect it. Ganon gets the Triforce in the Seal war.

As I said, what on earth does the Triforce do pre ALttP if the SR is already parallel and corrupted by FSA?

 

[Retro Ganon]

No, he conquered Hyrule using the ToP.

He got to rule Hyrule. Zelda tells us that in order to gain true mastery of the world he needed the True Force. In Ganondorf's eyes, he only got part of his wish fulfilled.

But why would he do that if he already ruled the world?

Because he only ruled Hyrule. And then when he was dethroned by the Hero of Time, he eventually broke free from the Sages Seal to reclaim what he had won. Yet the gods got in his way and sealed Hyrule, and other portions of the world, under the Great Sea, prohibiting him from living out a wish that he earned. The only way to fulfill his desires would be to obtain the True Force.

You can only wish on the Triforce once.

I don't recall this ever being stated in any game explicitly. Please prove me wrong and I'll gracefully shut up.

And Ganon in FSA =/= Ganon in OoT as that Ganon dies in both TWW and TP.

I agree with this. However if there is NO connection between the two by any means, I don't see what's the point in trying to fit the 2D titles around the 3D series. But that is another debate in itself.

Yes it does affect it. Ganon gets the Triforce in the Seal war.

He cant just call in his minions for a replacement after FSA-SW?

As I said, what on earth does the Triforce do pre ALttP if the SR is already parallel and corrupted by FSA?

That depends if we are looking at this from a CT or AT placement. We don't know what the full state of the Triforce(s) is/are after TP or TWW up until FSA takes place. Unless we rely on LoZ/AoL and or OoX helping us scope out where it is in the Zelda Universe, we can only guess.

For the record, I don't subscribe to the idea that the Triforce goes back to the SR after it has been wished upon. The games have not yet proven this to be fact thus far.