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What Happened in Development of Twilight Princess?

Akuhime-sama

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Okay, I am utterly confused. I'm getting two different stories here, about Twilight Princess.
First of all, I want to know what was made first? Gamecube or Wii version?

Now, first of all, I looked up release dates. Everywhere I look says that it was released on November 16th of 2006 on Wii. That was the first release date for it in existence. All other release dates are in December. Now, I have been told by numerous sources that GC was "made first" or at least hinted that it was. Even in 'The Official Guide to The Legend Of Zelda 2nd Edition: Revised & Updated' it gives the reader the impression that GC version was made first (on page 37); and this is more than just hinting. It says, down in a box labeled "A Southpaw Goes North" the following content:

The unique properties of the Wii Remote and Nunchuck controllers presented an enticing opportunity for the Twilight Princess development team, but they also created some unexpected headaches. Among the strangest was the matter of Link's sword hand: Link has traditionally been left-handed, but it felt terribly off for players to swing their right hands to make Link swing a sword in his left hand. There wasn't enough time to reprogram the way Link controlled and how the enemy AI reacted to him, so the developers fixed the problem the only way they could: by horizontally flipping the entire Wii version of the game. This made Link right-handed, but it also made the Wii version of Hyrule into a mirror image of the GameCube version; left became right, west became east, and everyone in the Wii version became the reflection of their Gamecube counterpart. If you're ever really hard-pressed for a "master quest" of Twilight Princess, perhaps its mirror-world version will do the trick?

This OBVIOUSLY states GC was first... or at least "developed" first.

Now, I know ALL about Wii to GC and how one is essentially just Mirror Mode of the other. I kinda knew that from the start. However, I have only ever played the Wii version until recently, when I purchased the Gamecube version in Japan. (I also have the Freeloader for GC, which I bought on Codejunkies.com, so that's how I can play the game) Anyway, I ALSO know, that this magazine has already made some TERRIBLE mistakes. This post at ZeldaUniverse expresses these mistakes. (some of witch are arguable though, and not entirely "mistakes")
The Official Guide to The Legend of Zelda - I AM ERRORS - Zelda Universe Forums

I have played the Wii Version several times, and decided to play GC for the challenge. (Not only will it be flipped, you can only have two items on, AND its Japanese, so no help for me HAHA!)
Anyway, on to the topic at hand. My issue with this, is the fact, that, on my first play-through on the GC version, I noticed that the Deku symbol on the Forest Temple doors, are backwards. Totally flipped. This gives way to the theory that Wii was made first. However, if they were developing it for the GC, then why would they have the symbol OBVIOUSLY flipped in the one they were working on first? Also note, that the Wii Version Forest Temple doors have the correct Deku symbol on them! Figure that one out! O:

So anyway, I was talking about it with a friend, who, although he has never played the game, came up with a theory that maybe, they were developing it for Gamecube, but then they wanted it on Wii instead, so, in mid-development they flipped the entire game to fit Wii controls. That did make sense for the most part, but that still doesnt explain why the Wii was out first AND why the Deku Symbol is correct on Wii, but flipped on GC. I'm sure Nintendo knew THEIR OWN symbol, and how it was supposed to look, so what happened here?

Also, on a separate note, I want to know why Link's Crossbow Training is modeled after the GC version when clearly the Wii was released first, AND the fact they are both Wii games.
Oh, here's another head scratcher; in one of the scenes, it shows Gannon holding Midna's Imp hat (the Fused Shadow) held up to the sky. I remember that Scene, and if it were flipped in the GC version, it would be facing the other way, but its exactly how I remember it, except for one detail. The part that covers her eye. In the GC version, I noticed that it covers what would be HER left eye, but to us, it looks like its on the right. However, In an image I saw while trying to explain to my friend the changes, its showing it on HER left eye. (Which is what the GC version is like all the time) And I'm pretty certain that all cutscenes were flipped too.

Now there may be more of these minor "flaws" if you will, but I have only noticed these two. The main focus is the Deku symbol for now, because I know that is definite. I had to see an image for the other one, so it might not be a very good example.

So, I would like to know what happened during development that made these "flaws" and I would like to REALLY know HOW it happened in the manner it had. If anybody knows, or maybe has a theory at least, I would love to hear it, because nothing I can think of makes any sort of sense. Let alone the fact I have no idea how to tell which one was in development first because each detail contradicts the other it seems. Dx

Until I know for sure, I'm sticking to the fact that Wii came out first.


(oh and note, I'm sorry if I put it in the wrong place, but I'm really unsure where to put this topic, so I thought it would be most fitting in theory/discussions)
 
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Twilight Princess, long before the Wii was announced, was in development as promised to come out as a CG game. THEN the Wii was announced and Zelda as a launch title? of course that is a good idea! The team wanted TP on the Wii, however they already promised and almost completed the game on the Cube, so what to do? Issues developed, such as the right-hand vs left-hand conspiracy: it would be easier for the gamer (who is more commonly right handed) to relate to Link if he too was right handed, thus the idea to make Link be right handed developed. To make this occur it was easier (apparently) to mirror mode the GC version and port it over to the Wii (other functions such as a controllable camera in GC were lost, but new functions were added in, such as the obvious use of the Wii mote for aiming functions/targets). In short, they promised TP on the GC so they could not go back on that promise, however, they wished they could. They wanted TP to be on the Wii at this point - with a new system they want a new popular title on the launch list to make people interested in the game (its the reason i even bought a Wii, for instance). So if there are flaws such as the symbols being reversed in GC but not Wii, it might make sense to me

As to other interesting issues related to TP GC vs Wii specifics (such as screen quality and controller "wobble" issues), I recommend you take a look at this guys thread: The definitive Twilight Princess Wii vs. Gamecube thread

As for the CrossBow Training being like GC, well, the fact is CrossBow Training was created for the Wii, so nothing needed to be mirrored (like TP was mirrored). In other words because the CG version of TP is how the developer originally intended TP to look, it only makes sense CrossBow Training looks like the CG version of TP or the non-mirror mode version of the game because that is how the world of TP is suppose to look. The developers did not want TP to actually be mirrored (they created the game with Link as left handed and this is how they wanted the game to appear). So why wouldn't they maintain their original stance? It would make little sense to make CrossBow Training in mirror mode when they now have a clear view of all the issues involved. Such as for Skyward Sword, they KNEW Link would be right handed for the gamers aid so they were able to accommodate and create the game in this fashion (instead of making a whole game where Link if left handed so they could flip it so he appears to be right handed).

As for the Deku symbols being upside down, etc, really I am not sure about that issue. I do not want to say you are wrong, nor am I saying you are wrong, but it seems like a flaw someone might have pointed out before now if it was the case. I would love to see some screenshots of it. Perhaps it is a Japanese game issue? (that seems unlikely though).
 
C

CosmicCucco

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I'd Say It Was Gamecube Because If You Look Closely At The Wii Version. IT'S The Mirrored Version. Forest Temple "Z" On Floor For Gale Boomerang. The GameCube Is The ACTUAL Game. Theres No Actual Gameplay Difference. Just That If It Were To Happen To Hyrule It Was The Gamecube. Link Is Left-Handed, Not Right-Handed. Wii = Right-Handed.
 

Locke

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TriFrog explained it fairly well. It was promised and developed as a GC game to be released late 2005, but then they extended it a year to produce the Wii version. They released the Wii version first to help push the Wii (it wouldn't sell very well if everyone already had the GC version), and then the GC version a month later.
 

Akuhime-sama

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As for the Deku symbols being upside down, etc, really I am not sure about that issue. I do not want to say you are wrong, nor am I saying you are wrong, but it seems like a flaw someone might have pointed out before now if it was the case. I would love to see some screenshots of it. Perhaps it is a Japanese game issue? (that seems unlikely though).

I could, but would taken by a Camera be sufficient? I'm not sure how else to get a screenshot :x
Anyway, I can do that to actually show you, instead of just writing about it.

Edit: Here, just in case anybody wanted to see, I have pictures.
----

Wii Version:
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/Akuhime-sama/01-NonBackgrounds/100_2749.jpg
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/Akuhime-sama/01-NonBackgrounds/100_2747.jpg

Gamecube:

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/Akuhime-sama/01-NonBackgrounds/100_2741.jpg
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/Akuhime-sama/01-NonBackgrounds/100_2740.jpg

The pictures aren't best of quality, but they show my JP Gamecube version, compared to my Wii Version.
Which, by the way, I had already completed the Wii Version in this pic, so I had traveled from Hyrule Castle to the temple.
(That's why I have those items and those many hearts.)
 
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Cfrock

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The reason it was released on the Wii first was to encourage sales of the Wii at the time of launch. Nothing sells Nintendo consoles like Nintendo's big franchises, this is why they release most alongside a Mario game (NES, SNES, N64, Gameboy, Gameboy Advance, DS). With the Wii coming out and an almost completed Zelda in their hands, Nintendo decided to delay the release, make a Wii version and use Zelda to drive sales of their newest console.
If it was just out on Gamecube, many fans will have held out on getting a Wii until, maybe, Super Mario Galaxy came out in 2007.

Like TriFrog77 said regarding the Deku symbol, I've never seen it brought up before so maybe that's not the case. I don't know though, I've never played or even seen the Gamecube version so maybe the symbol is the wrong way.
 

Akuhime-sama

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Like TriFrog77 said regarding the Deku symbol, I've never seen it brought up before so maybe that's not the case. I don't know though, I've never played or even seen the Gamecube version so maybe the symbol is the wrong way.

Well, I have posted images.
I really would like to know why the Wii version's deku symbol is right, but the Gamecube version's symbol is flipped,
When, in reality, it seems people keep saying Gamecube was in production first.

That's the only thing I don't understand.

Oh! I also noticed while continuing to play, that, well, you know the scene where you are stuck as a wolf, after clearing the Water Temple, and Zelda waves her hand across you and her Triforce glows? Well, I watched her hand, and the wrong part of the Triforce glowed in that cutscene. I know its probably because the image is flipped, but it looks as if the Triforce of Courage is glowing, when it SHOULD be wisdom. (as in, the bottom right was glowing, instead of bottom left)
 
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Cfrock

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Sorry, I didn't notice your post with the pics. I feel stupid.

But there it is, the symbol is the wrong way round on the Gamecube but not the Wii, despite the Wii being the flipped version. Curious.
Is it possible Nintendo manually flipped the symbol in the Wii version because they knew it would be the most played version and wanted it to be correct? But if they did, that still doesn't explain why it's backwards in the Gamecube version.

It seems highly unlikely that Nintendo simply got it wrong in the first place so there must be a reason. Quite the mystery.
 

Akuhime-sama

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Sorry, I didn't notice your post with the pics. I feel stupid.

But there it is, the symbol is the wrong way round on the Gamecube but not the Wii, despite the Wii being the flipped version. Curious.
Is it possible Nintendo manually flipped the symbol in the Wii version because they knew it would be the most played version and wanted it to be correct? But if they did, that still doesn't explain why it's backwards in the Gamecube version.

It seems highly unlikely that Nintendo simply got it wrong in the first place so there must be a reason. Quite the mystery.

I know, right?
That's the whole purpose of my post here xD
 

felipe970421

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I say Wii, why do I say this is because u play the game and u notice useless, but interesting facts like: HEY LOOK LINK IS RIGHT-HANDED. Or: the Wii makes me seem like I'm actually aiming the bow and arrow :)

You say Wii to answer what question?
 

The Joker

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I think what had happened was that they began working on the GC version of TP and then halfway into it, they stopped production on it and started working on the Wii version. This accounts for why the world layout is flipped but the Deku symbot is correct on the Wii version, while the world layout is correct but the Deku Symbol is flipped on the GC.
 

Akuhime-sama

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I think what had happened was that they began working on the GC version of TP and then halfway into it, they stopped production on it and started working on the Wii version. This accounts for why the world layout is flipped but the Deku symbot is correct on the Wii version, while the world layout is correct but the Deku Symbol is flipped on the GC.

but couldn't it be so simple as to make it correct on both versions?
I mean, I'm pretty sure Nintendo didn't INTEND on a flipped symbol, and why would they?
and how hard would it be to change a simple texture?
I'm no programmer, but I'm pretty sure that, for the professional programmers, it wouldn't take too long.


The only other explanation that I can think of, is that maybe they KNEW the GC version was flipped compared to Wii, and thus, they didn't think it would matter, because they thought "Oh, well, the players would just figure that the GC is flipped" so they never bothered to realize the symbol was wrong in hopes of assuming people would know that it's that way because its mirrored (compared to Wii) since they released Wii first... BUT, that also poses the question, "why not use their original designs?" ... I'm pretty sure that they had the forest temple done when they swapped production to the Wii. So, they would have had the Deku symbol correct on GC at this time, right? Well, I know they might have flipped it for Wii, and relised, "Its not right" and flipped the symbol by itself. So.... when they brought it to Gamecube, didn't they just use old data? And if not, couldn't they just use old data? Now, if they DID use old data, then the Deku Symbol whould be correct on Gamecube... but... its not.

So, maybe they re-did it for GC? Or, if they HAD used old data, then they went out of their way to flip the symbol for "mirror mode" of Wii?
But why would they do that?
 

MiniMouseofPyru

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Twilight princess was being made as a GC game long before the Wii was ever announced. The Wii version is a lazy version of the game, as Nintendo decided to be lazy and just flip the ENTIRE game. The gamecube version might've been purposefully released later, but I have no reason to believe this. I'm also unsure of the deku symbol thing.
 

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