Twilight Princess was too messy with its disjointed sub plots/plot threads

[Misty]

Dang it, I stopped reading it halfway because I wanted to see if Chevy would give it heart eyes so now I got spoiled

Anyway saying stories dont need structure is kind of silly imo haven't you seen that Martha speaks episode where Alice sucks at telling stories because she can't give it a beginning middle and end

I didn't say they don't need any kind of structure. I said they don't need to meet two classic structures (3 or 5 act) structure that keeps getting brought up. And they don't. I stand by that. Your life doesn't meet that structure actually, you just don't notice it because of how the human mind works. Generally speaking, the 3 and 5 act structure is how we as humans perceive our own existence. We are born, we have adventures, and we die. We are the main characters of our own stories and everyone else is either a very relevant secondary character or an NPC. Maybe if they're lucky they are the villain. But EVERYONE thinks this. We can't all possibly be correct that we are the main characters of our stories if there are other people in our stories. And realizing that in fact we aren't the main characters is often a very odd and even jarring feeling for a lot of people (myself included). It feels like a break with reality to not feel like the main character.

The structure of Twilight Princess (like much of the rest of the game) is jarring because it reflect the actual reality. The main character is not the main character. The story of link isn't the one he thinks he's in. He isn't particularly relevant. It's basically the only game where he isn't some over-hyped fated hero. He's a farmboy who got dragged in (think Ashitaka from Mononoke who is another example of someone who isn't really the main character of his story).

The story structure isn't what you're used to because it isn't Link's story. It is Midna's. And Midna's does actually (if you examine it) have the classic structure I see people complaining the game lacks. The game lacks it because the game is her story told from the perspective of someone who is not the main character. If you aren't the main character then it just seems like a disjointed series of events. Because life feels that way if you don't take the perspective of being a main character.

Also, this is how Slice of Life anime works by the by. It doesn't require those classic structures to be structured and meaningful. It finds meaning in the beauty of small moments which connected make up the majority of life. Twilight Princess is basically just Slice of Life, but instead of being focused on cooking, the breeze, petty school drama, and trees it is focused on bleak horror scapes, collecting tears, weird ass useless people you meet and have to help despite the fact you're busy trying to remove a curse from an impish tyrant that rides you around as a literal dog, and collecting butterflies for a sadistic loli. The structure is life. Not a grand story. Midna gets to have the grand story. You get to be her dog.

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

Bro you're typing way too much crap I cant engage in a meaningful conversation when you're prone to these bursts of soliloquy


I dont think anyone is arguing whether or not twilight princess has multiple adjacent storylines
And I dont think anyone is particularly arguing whether or not that makes the game worse

But stories arent real life. You seem to understand storytelling structure well enough (unlike some here *glare*)
I can kinda understand what you're saying with midna but I need you to be less dramatic about it and actually like analyze the story from midna's lens
One thing I think you're wrong about, I always thought her personality was just an act, not her actually growing

 

[GZ Zelda]

What seems to be happening here is that we are applying movie story structure to a video game. Why are we doing that? I completely agree with @Chevywolf30; the story is incredibly linear and all of the Ordon village/Ilia stuff is necessarily embedded within the linear structure. Now, the point that the Ilia stuff, textually, has nothing to do with the Zant/Ganondorf conflict is true. but that doesn't make it messy. There is a REASON that the Ilia stuff is in there; she is the sacrifice for Link's journey. Link gives up a relationship with Ilia in order to save all of Hyrule. Now, we can have a debate as to whether or not that was effectively communicated, but the subplots aren't messy.

 

[Misty]

Bro you're typing way too much crap I cant engage in a meaningful conversation when you're prone to these bursts of soliloquy


I dont think anyone is arguing whether or not twilight princess has multiple adjacent storylines
And I dont think anyone is particularly arguing whether or not that makes the game worse

But stories arent real life. You seem to understand storytelling structure well enough (unlike some here *glare*)
I can kinda understand what you're saying with midna but I need you to be less dramatic about it and actually like analyze the story from midna's lens
One thing I think you're wrong about, I always thought her personality was just an act, not her actually growing

Stories are real life. And stories are always inspired by and reflections of it. We're so us that all we can do is talk about real life. Even when we're playing pretend. Something being true or not has little to do with how real it is or is not. Some stories are more real than others. Twilight Princess is a more real story and (I would say) a more true story than the other Zeldas. It is part of why I like it. Instead of using a classic structure to shape itself, it uses the structure of reality and life.

Also, please stop telling me what I need to do for you and how I should address you. It's very rude and makes me want to be tetchy with you. Midna isn't the perspective from which the game is told, she's the main character of the over-all plot a lot of folks don't seem to think exists. But it is there.

Premise Ruler loses kingdom for being a dick.
1. Problems happen because ruler lost kingdom and it sucks for the ruler. (Act 1)
2. Ruler has to go on quests to learn not to be a dick. (Act 2)
3. Ruler learns not to be a dick and gets kingdom back. (Act 3)

This is literally her story. And it literally follows the three act structure to a perfect T. (Nintendo knows how to write a three act structure. They always have.) The story is about her, all events are because of her and are about her growth. But the actual game is told from the perspective of Link. Because that's how real life works.

It isn't an act. She sees Zelda sacrifice herself for her and then she sacrifices herself for them. And then she sacrifices her relationship with them in order to seal the worlds apart. The whole story is about teaching Midna to make sacrifices for others. If it were just an act, she wouldn't cry at the end, she wouldn't sever the worlds, and she would make the sacrifice play against Ganon. If she's acting, she's way over-committed to her part. It just doesn't make sense. This isn't to say she becomes a saint, but she's a decent leader by the end who cares about others. And that was what her story was meant to be about.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

(I think you mean Zant, not Vaati) I get the fact that the games is split into sections, with your original goal being to get the fused shadows/defeat Zant, and then it switches over to getting the mirror shards/defeating Ganon. Sometimes the lack of information helps to strengthen that- Midna never tells you why exactly she needs the fused shadows or what they do, Link only agrees to find them because if he does Midna will help him rescue the children. But once his friends are safe and you have those pieces Midna is more open, and their goal becomes more clear. This allows for a transition that makes sense, even though it's broken in half there's a reason for it. Link's goals and motivations shift from from helping his friends by helping Midna to helping Midna/the world by getting the shards, a very clear and literal plot shift occurs at this same point. Keeping with the theme that things aren't always as they seem and there's a lot going on that the player isn't aware of, Ganondorf is brought in and shows just how much is going on behind the scenes. There is a lot that the player, and by extension Link, doesn't know about and motivations/goals are kept fairly ambiguous to reflect that.

I guess I would say that Twilight Princess (and a lot of other games in the series) doesn't handle subtle storytelling well. What could come across as subtle and mysterious winds up feeling like the absence of meaningful writing that would build up the storyline into something more meaningful.