Exactly, you can't move on to the Fused Shadows until you free the Light Spirits
Twilight Princess was too messy with its disjointed sub plots/plot threads
- Thread starter Silver_sparkle95
- Start date
But that proves the point that the plot is very segmented.
And apparently that's a problem. I think the flow is fine, but you're free to think it's choppy, can't say I can relate.
but from what I remember, the fused shadow isn't introduced until after, I know definitely the mirror of twilight pops out and now all of a sudden it's key to the story
Midna pulls it out as a last resort, she thought the Fused Shadows would work but they didn't, so her dying wish was for Zelda to tell Link about it, then she got the Triforce.
I didn't prove it, I just reiterated what's already presented in the game. Ganondorf is alluded to eariler than his reveal via the dialogue. Zant's presentation by the camera, from the first time we meet him, conveys silently that he is a farce and won't be the main villian we deal with. It's all there to see, I'm just pointing it out.
I'm pretty sure in A New Hope they mention "The Emperor" in some brief dialogue when Darth Vader meets at that round table with a bunch of generals?
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I'm sure the emperor isn't mentioned at all in a new hope actually
I can't remember if there are any other scenes, but here General Tarkin says the Emperor has dissolved the council (the senate) permanently.
Mikey the Moblin
if I had a nickel for every time I ran out of spac
mandela effect moment
oh ok, thanks for pointing it out, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the only line about him
It's definitely an issue. There doesn't feel like a sense of urgency to Twilight Princess's plot, just two different multi-step fetch quests along which you're shuttled because the game absolutely assures you that they're definitely important and that a ton of lives are absolutely at stake. Even stuff like the forced inclusion of Ganon seems to intentionally break the plot up into chunks: the Zany chunk and the Ganon chunk.
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I know I'm not really qualified to speak compared to the rest of y'all given my slim knowledge and relatively low level fan status, but this is the internet, so why let that stop me because I'm pretty well informed and taught about art!
I think a lot of y'all including OP may be sort of...forcing a structure and expectations on this game that at no point and level does it seem like it is attempting to meet. I say judge a work on the target it chooses and how well it hits that target. No story has to follow a three or five act play structure to be good. And it can be purposefully disjointed because life is that way. Characters do not have to be relevant to the overall plot or indeed at all for a story to work as it is intended. Characters don't even have to have depth for them to be done well in stories.
To my second point first, how many people have you met in your daily comings and goings and even what you would consider your personal life character arcs that were totally irrelevant to the over-all story of your life? I would say this describes most people we all ever encounter. A story isn't bad because it reflects this fact or utilizes it. Link has no character arc and yet you all seem just fine with him. Savage Illia basically because you didn't spend an entire game running around in her skin? That's not fair. They're both equally thin characters with no real point. You could swap in any other character to where Link is and have the same damn story. Because it isn't Link's Story. Or Illia's. Or any of these other people's stories. And that's not a failing, it is a perspective.
Midna is the only real character in here. The entire story and arc of Twilight Princess is (aptly) about taking Midna from being a selfish doddling **** who doesn't care about anyone or anything to someone who is well, capable of great sacrifice for those she doesn't know or care about. You play the game from her perspective more or less. A disjointed series of unimportant and kind of annoying people who are in the way of solving her curse plus her loyal dog (Link).
You don't have to like it, but I do think this is on purpose and for me personally, it is kind of refreshing not to have this perfectly interconnected web of little mini and major stories that are perfectly orchestrated.
To my first point second, Twilight Princess is...pretty different from a lot of Zeldas. I think that's what draws a lot of us to it. It's pretty dark in tone, it is pretty weird at every level, and the word moody can be applied basically everywhere. It is pretty one of a kind in this respect. It certainly has the beats of a Zelda and isn't without all the references, but it has a haunted darkness no other game does.
And I bring this up because I think all of this together explains what you're calling the "shoe-horned" Ganon. Not all evil is this larger than life looming figure of chaos who you've known was the bad guy since the beginning of the story. In fact, most of it isn't that way. Most of it lurks in the shadows barely revealing itself until it has no choice. It's just in the air you breath and just out of your vision when you blink. It has pawns and puppets and plays games. And you don't know about it because you aren't that important or informed.
I love that the final boss is both not the guy you expect because he hasn't been in the entire game and also is the guy you expect because he's always the final boss. I think that's a stroke of genius actually.
P.s. This post was written in a purposefully disjointed fashion. You didn't notice it, but your brain did.
I think a lot of y'all including OP may be sort of...forcing a structure and expectations on this game that at no point and level does it seem like it is attempting to meet. I say judge a work on the target it chooses and how well it hits that target. No story has to follow a three or five act play structure to be good. And it can be purposefully disjointed because life is that way. Characters do not have to be relevant to the overall plot or indeed at all for a story to work as it is intended. Characters don't even have to have depth for them to be done well in stories.
To my second point first, how many people have you met in your daily comings and goings and even what you would consider your personal life character arcs that were totally irrelevant to the over-all story of your life? I would say this describes most people we all ever encounter. A story isn't bad because it reflects this fact or utilizes it. Link has no character arc and yet you all seem just fine with him. Savage Illia basically because you didn't spend an entire game running around in her skin? That's not fair. They're both equally thin characters with no real point. You could swap in any other character to where Link is and have the same damn story. Because it isn't Link's Story. Or Illia's. Or any of these other people's stories. And that's not a failing, it is a perspective.
Midna is the only real character in here. The entire story and arc of Twilight Princess is (aptly) about taking Midna from being a selfish doddling **** who doesn't care about anyone or anything to someone who is well, capable of great sacrifice for those she doesn't know or care about. You play the game from her perspective more or less. A disjointed series of unimportant and kind of annoying people who are in the way of solving her curse plus her loyal dog (Link).
You don't have to like it, but I do think this is on purpose and for me personally, it is kind of refreshing not to have this perfectly interconnected web of little mini and major stories that are perfectly orchestrated.
To my first point second, Twilight Princess is...pretty different from a lot of Zeldas. I think that's what draws a lot of us to it. It's pretty dark in tone, it is pretty weird at every level, and the word moody can be applied basically everywhere. It is pretty one of a kind in this respect. It certainly has the beats of a Zelda and isn't without all the references, but it has a haunted darkness no other game does.
And I bring this up because I think all of this together explains what you're calling the "shoe-horned" Ganon. Not all evil is this larger than life looming figure of chaos who you've known was the bad guy since the beginning of the story. In fact, most of it isn't that way. Most of it lurks in the shadows barely revealing itself until it has no choice. It's just in the air you breath and just out of your vision when you blink. It has pawns and puppets and plays games. And you don't know about it because you aren't that important or informed.
I love that the final boss is both not the guy you expect because he hasn't been in the entire game and also is the guy you expect because he's always the final boss. I think that's a stroke of genius actually.
P.s. This post was written in a purposefully disjointed fashion. You didn't notice it, but your brain did.
This. Think of Lord of the Rings. Sharon is alluded to in the Hobbit, but he doesn't really come up until the LotR books, and even then he's hardly present, yet everyone knows he's evil and a force to be dealt with.
Mikey the Moblin
if I had a nickel for every time I ran out of spac
Dang it, I stopped reading it halfway because I wanted to see if Chevy would give it heart eyes so now I got spoiled
Anyway saying stories dont need structure is kind of silly imo haven't you seen that Martha speaks episode where Alice sucks at telling stories because she can't give it a beginning middle and end
(I think you mean Zant, not Vaati) I get the fact that the games is split into sections, with your original goal being to get the fused shadows/defeat Zant, and then it switches over to getting the mirror shards/defeating Ganon. Sometimes the lack of information helps to strengthen that- Midna never tells you why exactly she needs the fused shadows or what they do, Link only agrees to find them because if he does Midna will help him rescue the children. But once his friends are safe and you have those pieces Midna is more open, and their goal becomes more clear. This allows for a transition that makes sense, even though it's broken in half there's a reason for it. Link's goals and motivations shift from from helping his friends by helping Midna to helping Midna/the world by getting the shards, a very clear and literal plot shift occurs at this same point. Keeping with the theme that things aren't always as they seem and there's a lot going on that the player isn't aware of, Ganondorf is brought in and shows just how much is going on behind the scenes. There is a lot that the player, and by extension Link, doesn't know about and motivations/goals are kept fairly ambiguous to reflect that.