Three Master Swords Timeline Theory (Skyward Sword is NOT the 1st Game!)

[JamesBond007]

I'm even making this timeline wider by using my Four Sword/Trident rule (placing all three Four Sword games close to each other and "Trident" games after that) to avoid questions like "What happened to the Four Sword for several hundred years?". Result - TMC/FS/FSA--ALttP/OOX/LA--(TLOZ/TAOL).

 

[Pinecove]

I agree with all this exept the OoX part. I honestly have no idea why so many people think that OoX is a sequel to ALttP. I have played all three games (ALttP and both oracles) through several times and I've seen no evidence to support them being related. Please enlighten me if I missed something.

It has nothing to do with evidence, it has to do with creator intent. And we have evidence, that sometime around 2000, the magazine 64DREAM reported OoX Link as being the same person as ALttP Link.

I'm even making this timeline wider by using my Four Sword/Trident rule (placing all three Four Sword games close to each other and "Trident" games after that) to avoid questions like "What happened to the Four Sword for several hundred years?". Result - TMC/FS/FSA--ALttP/OOX/LA--(TLOZ/TAOL).

TMC Link is not FS Link. Besides that, good job.

 

[startimer]

It has nothing to do with evidence, it has to do with creator intent. And we have evidence, that sometime around 2000, the magazine 64DREAM reported OoX Link as being the same person as ALttP Link.

I went and googled this- it came up with a ZU thread about it. (posted by you, in fact).

I'm still reading through it, but so far it seems shaky at best. I'll get back once I've read the whole thing.

 

[Pinecove]

I would advise not reading the entire thing. That thread was upon first discovery of the "quote." and hence has a lot of confusion as to what the source actually is. I can tell you right now we don't have the quote - but we do have several sources citing it.

 

[startimer]

I would advise not reading the entire thing. That thread was upon first discovery of the "quote." and hence has a lot of confusion as to what the source actually is. I can tell you right now we don't have the quote - but we do have several sources citing it.

Well, I read through it anyway- I didn't get much, though I have been inspired to add AST to my timeline

Anyway, I can't say for sure whether ALttP/OoX share the same Link, but I'm now heavilly inclined to believe it.

But that doesn't invalidate putting it on the CT.

The Oracles came out after MM, so even if it hasn't been officially confirmed the timeline had already split. If OoX was made as a sequel to ALttP, it's more than likely Nintendo had moved ALttP to the child timeline (likely due to inconsistencies with OoT/Seal War). Twinrova's a major character, and that can't be ignored, so they wouldn't have included her if it was going on the AT.

By the way, when did they start work on WW? Because I'm starting to wonder if maybe they were already working on WW when they finished the Oracles. Call it a hunch.

Excuse me, I need to go update my timeline now...

 

[Pinecove]

The Oracles came out after MM, so even if it hasn't been officially confirmed the timeline had already split. If OoX was made as a sequel to ALttP, it's more than likely Nintendo had moved ALttP to the child timeline (likely due to inconsistencies with OoT/Seal War). Twinrova's a major character, and that can't be ignored, so they wouldn't have included her if it was going on the AT.

They didn't begin development on TWW (in its cel shaded form) until around late 2000, 2001.
I had this debate a few months ago. Basically, a timeline of

OoT
\MM-ALttP/OoS/OoA/LA-LoZ/AoL

does not work because it assumes no action is taken against Ganondorf. I would argue that until FSA was developed, ALttP didn't fit on the child timeline at all. And even then, it causes confusion, because TP was meant to connect to FSA and TP was originally on the adult timeline. MEaning FSA would have originally been on the adult timeline too.

You can only place ALttP on the child timeline if somehow TP moved FSA's place in the timeline when it moved (unlikely because all references to FSA were removed from TP). Unless you intend to separate FSA and ALttP.

 

[Locke]

By the way, when did they start work on WW? Because I'm starting to wonder if maybe they were already working on WW when they finished the Oracles. Call it a hunch.

Q: When did development begin on The Wind Waker, and how far after Majora's Mask was that?

Miyamoto: It was before that, even.

Eiji Aonuma, Director: We already knew that the GameCube was coming when we completed Majora, so we already begun planning by that time.

Miyamoto: If you count all the graphic development, then it took over two and a half years. The actual direction and scriptwriting didn't begin until right after Majora, but we were already drawing graphics and experimenting with them before that. That's why we were able to show that movie with the more realistic Link fighting Ganon at the Nintendo Spaceworld show that summer.

(source)

OoX was not developed by the same team that developed WW. It was developed by Flagship, a joint team between Nintendo and Capcom from what I understand, headed by Fujibayashi.

And even then, it causes confusion, because TP was meant to connect to FSA and TP was originally on the adult timeline. MEaning FSA would have originally been on the adult timeline too.

Could the connections have been added after the move?

 

[startimer]

Thanks Locke, that was some useful info. I have a lot more to think about now...

They didn't begin development on TWW (in its cel shaded form) until around late 2000, 2001.
I had this debate a few months ago. Basically, a timeline of

OoT
\MM-ALttP/OoS/OoA/LA-LoZ/AoL

does not work because it assumes no action is taken against Ganondorf. I would argue that until FSA was developed, ALttP didn't fit on the child timeline at all. And even then, it causes confusion, because TP was meant to connect to FSA and TP was originally on the adult timeline. MEaning FSA would have originally been on the adult timeline too.

You can only place ALttP on the child timeline if somehow TP moved FSA's place in the timeline when it moved (unlikely because all references to FSA were removed from TP). Unless you intend to separate FSA and ALttP.

Right now I have LoZ/AoL before the Alttp-through-LA arc. Going by the the assumption that FSA's ganon is a reincarnation of the last one, and that the Oracles share the same link+ganon with Alttp, I'm left with

TP--LoZ/AoL--FSA--ALttp/OoX
(Ganon-less games omitted).

Ganon having survived TP, at least the beast part--Dieing in LoZ/failing to be revived--Reincarnated--killed again--ressurected

There are most likely problems with this order, as there would be with any order, but at least the condition of Ganon stays consistent.

 

[Pinecove]

Could the connections have been added after the move?

No, seeing as how some of the connections were taken out after the move.

Right now I have LoZ/AoL before the Alttp-through-LA arc. Going by the the assumption that FSA's ganon is a reincarnation of the last one, and that the Oracles share the same link+ganon with Alttp, I'm left with

TP--LoZ/AoL--FSA--ALttp/OoX
(Ganon-less games omitted).

Ganon having survived TP, at least the beast part--Dieing in LoZ/failing to be revived--Reincarnated--killed again--ressurected

There are most likely problems with this order, as there would be with any order, but at least the condition of Ganon stays consistent.

What reason does LoZ/AoL have to move to before ALttP? The last we heard of it, LoZ was still after ALttP.

 

[startimer]

No, seeing as how some of the connections were taken out after the move.



What reason does LoZ/AoL have to move to before ALttP? The last we heard of it, LoZ was still after ALttP.

"still"? Last I heard, there was no reason other than a mistranslated box to place ALttP before LoZ. I may have to check the quote page again, but I thought that the quote retracting the Myamoto order was unconfirmed.

Plus I'm one of those people who believe that FSA is the Seal War, at least in part. And if, like I mentioned before, FSA Ganon is truly a reincarnation, then FSA has to follow a game in which Ganon dies. Since ALttP is after it, that leaves LoZ/AoL.

P.S. While I still am inclined to believe the ALttP/OoX/LA arc, and will accept it without question if an official source is found, for now I'm going to move OoX back to where I had it before.

 

[Pinecove]

"still"? Last I heard, there was no reason other than a mistranslated box to place ALttP before LoZ. I may have to check the quote page again, but I thought that the quote retracting the Myamoto order was unconfirmed.

The box was never mistranslated. Poorly translated, (and later embellished) yes, but the box states ALttP-LoZ clear as day.
The quote where Miyamoto said OoT-ALttP-LoZ is found on page 17 of the January 1999 issue of the Dengeki64 magazine.

Plus I'm one of those people who believe that FSA is the Seal War, at least in part. And if, like I mentioned before, FSA Ganon is truly a reincarnation, then FSA has to follow a game in which Ganon dies. Since ALttP is after it, that leaves LoZ/AoL.

FSA was developed to be the seal war, but is not now. No triforce, no sacred realm, no origin of Ganon using the Triforce.

 

[ganonlord6000]

The box was never mistranslated. Poorly translated, (and later embellished) yes, but the box states ALttP-LoZ clear as day.
The quote where Miyamoto said OoT-ALttP-LoZ is found on page 17 of the January 1999 issue of the Dengeki64 magazine.



FSA was developed to be the seal war, but is not now. No triforce, no sacred realm, no origin of Ganon using the Triforce.

Doesn't the Japanese ALTTP box imply that ALTTP is a prequel to LOZ as well?

P.S. While I still am inclined to believe the ALttP/OoX/LA arc, and will accept
it without question if an official source is found, for now I'm going to move
OoX back to where I had it before.

I think a better translation of that quote was found which implies that ALTTP/OOX having the same Link was an idea from an early era of the development of the oracles. At that time, there were at least four or six games being developed(LOZ and AOL remake, new game, Triforce Trilogy. Was narrowed down to the two we got), so any pre-release intent is on pretty shaky ground since the oracles project was changed many times and six games were condensed to two. It is just like FSA which was going to be the IW(I still have some old NP screenshots in which a gamecube FS had ALTTP sprites, including Link. I assume that became FSA) until Miyamoto had the story changed towards the end of development. ANY pre-release intent can be ignored for the most part. TWW was going to be before OOT at one point, TMC was going to show the origins of the MS, and TP was going to be on the AT.

If we're lucky, SS will fix up some of the problems with those games, especially the FSS.

Going back to the original idea of this thread, where did the idea of three Master Swords come from? The one in the oracles isn't canon as it is part of a side quest that spans both games, and the one in SS is the same MS from OOT. Aonuma even mentioned in a NP interview that since the MS already exists in OOT, it is safe to say that SS occurs before it. Besides, if there were multiple Master Swords why would Nintendo be making a game on the origins of it?

 

[JamesBond007]

I made this theory for few reasons. Some people still puts A Link to the Past in the Adult Timeline after The Wind Waker, even if there is no Master Sword after that game. In some games (other than TWW) Hyrule looks like an island(s). MS can shoot Sword Beams only in certain games. If Skyward Sword takes place before Ocarina of Time, then my Hero's Clothes theory (from Kokiri Tunic) is screwed. So I made a theory about creation of another Master Sword in the Adult Timeline, after the old one was lost and forgotten. And this new Master Sword is the Skyward Sword. Unlike the old one (from OOT/TWW/TP), this MS can shoot Sword Beams. This 3MS timeline theory still have some flaws (like the other ones), but Nintendo must unveil more details about Skyward Sword (the game) inself.

 

[Pinecove]

Doesn't the Japanese ALTTP box imply that ALTTP is a prequel to LOZ as well?

That's what I said.

I think a better translation of that quote was found which implies that ALTTP/OOX having the same Link was an idea from an early era of the development of the oracles. At that time, there were at least four or six games being developed(LOZ and AOL remake, new game, Triforce Trilogy. Was narrowed down to the two we got), so any pre-release intent is on pretty shaky ground since the oracles project was changed many times and six games were condensed to two. It is just like FSA which was going to be the IW(I still have some old NP screenshots in which a gamecube FS had ALTTP sprites, including Link. I assume that became FSA) until Miyamoto had the story changed towards the end of development.

This is wrong. There were only going to be three games. IGN just mixed stuff up.

ANY pre-release intent can be ignored for the most part. TWW was going to be before OOT at one point, TMC was going to show the origins of the MS, and TP was going to be on the AT.

How is any of this not important? IT shows us EXTREMELY clear developer intent.
And for the record, Miyamoto was talking about FS, not TWW.

If we're lucky, SS will fix up some of the problems with those games, especially the FSS.

ST already did that for us.

This 3MS timeline theory still have some flaws (like the other ones), but Nintendo must unveil more details about Skyward Sword (the game) inself.

Nintendo told us that SS is before OoT. How much more evidence do you want? I've already disproven your notion that Nintendo doesn't know what they're saying.

 

[Locke]

And for the record, Miyamoto was talking about FS, not TWW.

Are you talking about the following NP quote?

NP: Where does the latest Zelda game fall into the series' mythology? Early in the series or after Majora's Mask?

Miyamoto: This is the very first Zelda story. If all we ever did was try to continue the story, we'd lose some of the interest. It's fun to jump back and forth.

I had assumed he said that because a reporter told him that a few months earlier:

Q: I think I'm right in saying the new Zelda takes place before the other Zelda games, right?

Miyamoto: I'm not that deeply involved in the Zelda project, but if that is actually the case we have decided that the setting for the game will be near the beginning.

(E3 2002 roundtable)