The Ideal Warriors Package

[Mido]

Dynasty Warriors. Samurai Warriors. Warriors Orochi. Warriors All-Stars.

Techmo-Koei's signature Warriors brand is a recognizable staple in the gaming industry, its hack-and-slash formula well-established. However, aside from its recent crossover games that include the likes of Gundam, Hyrule Warriors, and the upcoming Fire Emblem Warriors, the series has always remained as something of a niche franchise. The games often got mixed reviews (although generally more positive) due to the repetitive nature of the game. Nevertheless, the formula still presses forward, maintaining a solid level of consistency throughout, and it seems the crossover titles are blazing trails in some respects. Is it because they add certain degrees of depth to the formula such as a strong story or a variety of game modes? Does the gameplay change? These questions are answered through various methods, especially in recent entries.

This all being said, what is your ideal Warriors formula? What would you say contributes to what you see as a successful Warriors game?

 

[Libk]

Well considering I wasn't interested in any warriors games until Hyrule warriors, for me it's theme theme that makes it for me. I'm excited for Fire Emblem Warriors too because of theme.

 

[Princess Niki]

I agree the theme makes the game. I want the next game to be Pokemon Warriors or Smash Warriors.

 

[Libk]

To be honest, Star Warriors could be really cool(Star Wars).

 

[Princess Niki]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I 2nd that idea! Star Wars would be the best.

 

[Spirit]

Dynasty Warriors. Samurai Warriors. Warriors Orochi. Warriors All-Stars.

Techmo-Koei's signature Warriors brand is a recognizable staple in the gaming industry, its hack-and-slash formula well-established. However, aside from its recent crossover games that include the likes of Gundam, Hyrule Warriors, and the upcoming Fire Emblem Warriors, the series has always remained as something of a niche franchise. The games often got mixed reviews (although generally more positive) due to the repetitive nature of the game. Nevertheless, the formula still presses forward, maintaining a solid level of consistency throughout, and it seems the crossover titles are blazing trails in some respects. Is it because they add certain degrees of depth to the formula such as a strong story or a variety of game modes? Does the gameplay change? These questions are answered through various methods, especially in recent entries.

This all being said, what is your ideal Warriors formula? What would you say contributes to what you see as a successful Warriors game?

Why did you make an interesting thread when my mind doesnt work properly?

I like all versions of Warriors games but they have their pros and cons.

I like Warriors games based on anime like Arslan, Berserk and Attack on Titan. But the story is abridged in these games and they lose a lot of character building and key scenes for narrative consistency.

I like games based on other IPs like Hyrule Warriors but the stories there are major fluff and while fan-tickling references are fun they do make the games feel a little shallow. Plus there's the non-canon hole where the point of playing should be given that these games have the titles of known IPs.

Warriors Orochi and All Stars will no doubt be fluff too but perhaps the fluff here is worse in some ways. They dont need to pay homage or stay within the rules of loaned IPs like HW. They have a chance to be more interesting and free... but the Orochi games really didnt thrill me with the story. Need to see where All Stars goes. I also didnt like the 3 in a team gameplay. I much prefer the one warrior or tag team body jumping like Samurai Warriors.

I guess my favourite would be Dynasty and Samurai. They tell focussed stories and have proper character building. They have a lot of characters to play as and a lot of modes. The games feel comfortable in their own skin which i like. Hyper attacks in SW4 are awesome btw.

 

[the8thark]

This all being said, what is your ideal Warriors formula? What would you say contributes to what you see as a successful Warriors game?

You forgot to mention Dragon Quest Heroes. I've just finished the first game and am playing the second game now. Both are very good. I would recommend both to muso/warriors fans. Sure some of the post game challenges require near max level to complete and some of the side quests need reduce freeze time accessories but the core story is doable without too much hassle.

What makes a good muso/warriors style game?
Getting the core game mechanics right. If that's done well then the rest fo the gasme will fall into place. The IP that the game is set in doesn't really matter. That only exists to gets fans of those series to play a muso/warriors game. I don't care at all for Fire Emblem but I want to play FE:Warriors because it's a muso/warriors game.

Is there a muso/warriors game or two that explains a bad muso/warriors game well?
Yes. Hyrule Warriors and Warriors All Stars.

Firstly Hyrule Warriors. The story there is great. Fun and works well. The adventure mode as a concept is another brilliant idea. Also the wide range of characters helps too. Not as many as some other muso/warriors games but Hyrule Warriors different weapons pretty much equal a different character in other muso/warriors games. However past this, the game breaks down and fails in the following ways:

• Collectable loot that does nothing for the player. The heart pieces are worthless if you are going for A Rank. The armour badges are useless because all of the harder adventure mode stages don't have an element.
• The bosses are fundamentally broken. Having to wait for weak points to hit bosses just breaks the fast paced style of game play that muso/warriors style games try to achieve. Dragon Quest Heroes does this better. The DQH bosses do have weak points you can expose for more damage but you don't have to use them, you can do respectable damage without triggering them. This keeps the flow of battle vs bosses better as you are always attacking and there's no down time waiting for weak points to appear.
• The above point about fundamentally broken bosses is compounded with stage time limits for A Rank. It's RNG for the boss weak point to appear and this can easily push you over the time limit for A Rank. Failing the time limit because of a lack of skill or loot or levels seems fair. But failing the time limit because of RNG is just not fun.

Secondly Warriors All Stars. The concept is a good one, cram as many muso/warriors characters all into one game and have fun. However it's one of the worst muso/warriors games out there. Poorly done, combat does not flow as it should, the character progression system is broken and overall the game is jsut not fun. It feels like a rushed job just to milk the franchise. Orachi 3 is a much better multi-IP muso/warriors game.

So what do I think makes a good muso/warriors is the following.

• A diverse set of playable characters. I am ok if the initial 2-3 characters you can choose from in the story are clones (as they are in DQH / DQH2) because having the male/female choice is nice. But past this every character needs to feel different to play as. This gives scope to some easier to play as and some harder to play as characters. The harder to play ones would be optional. As in you don't have to play as them to finish the story mode. Note well - Having them on your party is ok as long as you can just use another party member to attack with.
• All bosses should be attackable (for decent damage) without requiring exposed weak points. This keeps the pace of the combat up. So there is no downtime waiting for weak points to be exposed. Sure the boss dies faster if you use the weak points, but they are optional, not required.
• All collectable loot has a use in game. Hyrule Warriors had worthless heart pieces and worthless armour badges. This kind of thing should never happen in any muso/warriors style game.
• A good free mode to grind experience with all currently unlocked characters. This helps to give you that edge in the story or required for the harder optional content.
• Grinding experience needs to be fun. muso/warriors games are all about the grind, not about being super hard.
• Prioritise fun over difficulty. Sure the game can be harder in spots, but nothing unfairly hard at all. These games exist for mindless hack and slash fun. Too easy is alright for these kind of games (story mode at least). Fun is the main aim here.
  
• Time limits (including NPCs/structures you have to protect or fail the mission) need to be based on player skill and player level. These stages should never be failable due to RNG as was the case in Hyrule Warriors.

I agree the theme makes the game. I want the next game to be Pokemon Warriors or Smash Warriors.

I actually disagree. I thought Hyrule Warriors is an alright game for short term play but is totally broken when you play it for many many hours. A good example of a great theme used in a bad muso/warriors style game.

 

[Spirit]

You forgot to mention Dragon Quest Heroes. I've just finished the first game and am playing the second game now. Both are very good. I would recommend both to muso/warriors fans. Sure some of the post game challenges require near max level to complete and some of the side quests need reduce freeze time accessories but the core story is doable without too much hassle.

What makes a good muso/warriors style game?
Getting the core game mechanics right. If that's done well then the rest fo the gasme will fall into place. The IP that the game is set in doesn't really matter. That only exists to gets fans of those series to play a muso/warriors game. I don't care at all for Fire Emblem but I want to play FE:Warriors because it's a muso/warriors game.

Is there a muso/warriors game or two that explains a bad muso/warriors game well?
Yes. Hyrule Warriors and Warriors All Stars.

Firstly Hyrule Warriors. The story there is great. Fun and works well. The adventure mode as a concept is another brilliant idea. Also the wide range of characters helps too. Not as many as some other muso/warriors games but Hyrule Warriors different weapons pretty much equal a different character in other muso/warriors games. However past this, the game breaks down and fails in the following ways:

• Collectable loot that does nothing for the player. The heart pieces are worthless if you are going for A Rank. The armour badges are useless because all of the harder adventure mode stages don't have an element.
• The bosses are fundamentally broken. Having to wait for weak points to hit bosses just breaks the fast paced style of game play that muso/warriors style games try to achieve. Dragon Quest Heroes does this better. The DQH bosses do have weak points you can expose for more damage but you don't have to use them, you can do respectable damage without triggering them. This keeps the flow of battle vs bosses better as you are always attacking and there's no down time waiting for weak points to appear.
• The above point about fundamentally broken bosses is compounded with stage time limits for A Rank. It's RNG for the boss weak point to appear and this can easily push you over the time limit for A Rank. Failing the time limit because of a lack of skill or loot or levels seems fair. But failing the time limit because of RNG is just not fun.

Secondly Warriors All Stars. The concept is a good one, cram as many muso/warriors characters all into one game and have fun. However it's one of the worst muso/warriors games out there. Poorly done, combat does not flow as it should, the character progression system is broken and overall the game is jsut not fun. It feels like a rushed job just to milk the franchise. Orachi 3 is a much better multi-IP muso/warriors game.

So what do I think makes a good muso/warriors is the following.

• A diverse set of playable characters. I am ok if the initial 2-3 characters you can choose from in the story are clones (as they are in DQH / DQH2) because having the male/female choice is nice. But past this every character needs to feel different to play as. This gives scope to some easier to play as and some harder to play as characters. The harder to play ones would be optional. As in you don't have to play as them to finish the story mode. Note well - Having them on your party is ok as long as you can just use another party member to attack with.
• All bosses should be attackable (for decent damage) without requiring exposed weak points. This keeps the pace of the combat up. So there is no downtime waiting for weak points to be exposed. Sure the boss dies faster if you use the weak points, but they are optional, not required.
• All collectable loot has a use in game. Hyrule Warriors had worthless heart pieces and worthless armour badges. This kind of thing should never happen in any muso/warriors style game.
• A good free mode to grind experience with all currently unlocked characters. This helps to give you that edge in the story or required for the harder optional content.
• Grinding experience needs to be fun. muso/warriors games are all about the grind, not about being super hard.
• Prioritise fun over difficulty. Sure the game can be harder in spots, but nothing unfairly hard at all. These games exist for mindless hack and slash fun. Too easy is alright for these kind of games (story mode at least). Fun is the main aim here.
  
• Time limits (including NPCs/structures you have to protect or fail the mission) need to be based on player skill and player level. These stages should never be failable due to RNG as was the case in Hyrule Warriors.

I actually disagree. I thought Hyrule Warriors is an alright game for short term play but is totally broken when you play it for many many hours. A good example of a great theme used in a bad muso/warriors style game.

Nice post.

DQH is so buggering hard in places. Enemies take so much damn punishment.