Spoiler The Eye Symbol V.S. the Gerudo Symbol (Good & Evil??)

[Admiral Makar]

Below is an in depth analysis of the Sheika tribe, Impa, the Gerudo, Hylians, demons and the EYE symbol. Please chime in!!! I'm looking for a long, active conversion about this! Any theories are encouraged and contradicting opinions to mine are encouraged, so don't be shy. I don't take it personally!

Okay, nobody is really going into discussion about this and I need someone more intelligent than myself to help sort it out. The Gerudo symbol and the Eye symbol (also associated with Sheika & Shadows & magic) is just plum everywhere. From good to evil all over the timeline. What led me to notice this was my attempt to see if Groose is infact an ancestor of the Gerudo race. (Some people say it's Batreaux but I really doubt it). To trace the Gerudos back to Groose you see a lot of closeness with the Sheika. The eye is all over the desert, the Gerudo and the Sheik have red eyes and dark skin and seem to be an ancient race, etc. There's ALSO a big crossover between the Shadow people (Sheika) and the demons that pop up in many games (lots of handhelds too). The Demons could be the ones who invented Majora's mask (This was hinted in MM), and/or the Twili (or the Demons are simply connected to both). Are the Sheika a tribe that came from the demon race? I find all of this very intriguing so everyone feel free to jump in and put forward your theories on any of these subtopics. I'd be glad to hear it.

First let me tell you my theory findings to support my ideas:

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At the end of the story (spoiler), Ganon swears to Link that his people (eventually becoming Hyrule) are destined to bear an ongoing curse (such is the price they pay for having something as powerful as the Triforce in the hands of humans) of the constant reincarnation of his Evil Spirit, regardless of how many times it is imprisoned. It was a nice explanation of why Ganon comes back to life more often than Jason Voorhees, but more, that his form is not limited to any one species (human, demon, sorcerer etc.).

I LOVE following the mysterious lines of evolution/lineage in Zelda. I like forming a timeline, however, I also take everything with a grain of salt. Like they say in WW, each story is just one version of a legend. Legends can always come with many different tales. In fact, before it was confirmed, I used to feel there was no COMPLETE timeline, but just many varying legends of the tale of Zelda and the Hero of Time.


* * *

Incase anyone missed it, the producers came up with a confirmed timeline for everyone to follow for now:

MAIN TIMELINE:
1. Skyward Sword
2. Minish Cap
3. Four Swords
4. Ocarina Of Time

SPLIT 1: Link defeats Ganon - childhood branch
a) Majora's Mask
b) Twilight Princess
c) Four Swords Adventures

SPLIT 2: Link defeats Ganon - adult branch
a) Wind Waker
b) Phantom Hourglass
c) Spirit Tracks

SPLIT 3: Link fails in Ocarina Of Time
a) A Link To The Past
b) Oracles
c) Link's Awakening
d) The Legend Of Zelda
The Legend Of Zelda II

* * *


1. In OoT, it is noted that there is a special separation between Hylians and other humans (Hyrulian humans and other species). You can usually tell by the Hylian tattoos and the long ears. In OoT and Link to the Past, the Hylians are more specially tied to the gods, compared to other humanoid races. There are many varying human-like races.

2. The eye symbol seems to be seen in many forms. So does the Gerudo symbol. In some cases, we see both symbols at once on characters. Click on the names to read more about the theories that I felt were important to notice.

The eye and Gerudo symbol appear everywhere in the game, and are associated with many conflicting good and evil things:
on Ganon, Ganondorf, Midna, the Twilight Princess Zelda, Twili, Fanadi, Telma, dominion rod, the sheika, gossip stones, eye of truth, the shadow temple, the fused shadow, Majora’s mask, Veran (Who has both, including a really exaggerated teardrop), Onox, Kafei, Agahnim, Zant, Vaati, Impa (though in WW, she is shown in stained glass to have a differing version of the eye above her head. It bears a tear, two longer curly lashes like Vaati’s, and only one triangle lash), Nabooru, the revised mirror shield, Twinrova, The master sword (one of them), the sword in twilight , The sword of the sages , the Timeshift stones

3.
When playing SS, first I "knew" groose was going to be a character who great great grandfathered the Gerudos / Ganondorf. I was throwing him out as a red herring. Then by the end of the story, I loved the symmetry that places Zelda in line with the royal bloodline, Link in line with the bloodline of courageous people who the Triforce chooses as its hero, and Groose as the bloodline of the Gerudos. I have a feeling Groose remains on the surface to play a part in the bloodline of the Gerudos. (At the end of the story you see Groose and his lackies flying west toward the desert.) He looks like a Gerudo and is a thief. He has a good heart like Nabooru (OoT), and is cocky just like the thief women tend do be, but he is not purely good like Link. The Gerudo women and Groose have a human weakness in them to be corrupted by greed. It makes sense that when Ganon needed to reincarnate himself into any one of the races in the world, that he would pick the Gerudo -- they are easily manipulated by greed and a lust for power. They would be tempted to seize the triforce of power. So when a Gerudo woman gave birth to Ganondorf, king of theives, he became the next Ganon. It makes sense. (I chose to ignore claims that all Gerudo are women. That could just be the ONE tribe in OoT/MM that operates like Amazon women, with a mostly women population, or perhaps just a trait they picked up many years later when OoT took place.)

That being said, Groose’s clothing symbol does not stand as a solid confirmation for any of this.

:chu: 4. Groose’s symbol could be any number of things.

In comparison, it does not look like the Gerudo symbol. In fact I think it resembles a few things. Look at the dominion rod for example, or the textures on Zant's robes. It might look like the Oocca symbol or what is on the hilt of Ganondorf's/The sages' execution sword. It also could be an owl face, like the MM (and many other games) owl statues, or Rauru the light sage / aka Kaepora Gaebora the owl. This makes no sense however (just sayin). It also has a shape to suggest the pattern on Telma’s dress in TP (she is rumored to be a Gerudo descendent), or Midna’s crown. One could even say it is similar to the pattern on OoT’s mirror shield (the bottom half). None of these options really make any sense lol. There are so many options and directions for this symbol to go in that I’m very excited to see if the franchise touches on this in the future ^_^

5. Impa and the Skeika are people of the shadows. She’s the sage of the shadow temple, and one of the last human like race to have magical powers in many games. There are also many parallels between the Sheika, the shadows, and evil beings in the franchise. They all seem to keep showing up with red eyes, magical powers, and a connection to the royal family. Some eye symbols have a tear and some don’t. I for one think the eye simply has a connection to magic or shadow-magic. Maybe the races branched out over the years into Sheik servants / evil sorcerers / twili people etc. Who knows.

(Warning: I'm reaching here.) Now, I haven't read enough about the backstory to correct myself if I'm wrong, but is it possible that the ancient Sheika were originally descendants of demons? Many demons wear eyes on their garb. It would explain why the Sheik/Impa are extremely magical. Maybe somewhere down the line there was a Sheika family that made a connection with the royal family and changed their ways. Maybe this was the first Sheika family to swear allegiance to the royal family (to devote themselves to being their guardians) and that family strayed away from other demons. They would form the first "Sheika" tribe (first good tribe) of demon people. And that could be the reason for the adoption of the tear drop to the demon eye symbol (like they are sorry or something, ha. It would mark them as separate from their demon descendants). That's a really big stretch that goes off of little evidence and of course (again) Veran throws a wrench into things. Whatever. It'd sure make for a cool story!

There are so many conversations that come from this that I really don’t want to get off topic.

6. Groose was close with granny aka Impa which represents the possible first instance of a close connection between the Gerudo race and the Sheika. Another close connection comes with Veran who wears both symbols.

7. Majoras mask was created by demon people and bares the same red eyes as Groose, Nabooru, Midna, and many other magical beings

8. I really didn’t think too much into Batreaux’s sub plot. I think if anything, the whole “I attract monsters cause I’m a demon” thing might be a reference to why a place becomes inhabited with monsters when dark forces gather. For example, Kokori forest is peaceful, then a dark evil enters the temple and suddenly the place is swarming with monsters. When you kill the temple’s boss, the evil monsters dissipate. Evil attracts more evil. Am I reaching? Maybe.

I guess what I’m saying is there is something greatly important about Groose in the plot of the Legend of Zelda. We just don’t know what it is yet. Here are a couple links some places I found all this information:

:ganondorf: 9. They say the original Hylia goddess changed gannon (or gannon's evil spirit) into his grotesque abomination form (demise) and imprisoned him. When they say Demise is the creature to born all evil demons (or something like that) I think they mean ganon since ganon is demise, right?? And also, theorizing that Groose helps to start the bloodline of the gerudo, I think it can be both. He is an ancestor to the gerudo and during one of the many reincarnations of ganon (gannondorf is just one of the reincarnations. the other being most of the games villians) the evil spirit picked a gerudo (ganondorf) to be his new coming. Ganondorf is a puppet, ganon is the reincarnation. I've noticed not everyone on other boards see it like that. What does everyone else think?

10. Look at the eyes in majora's mask, behind the mask of the knuckles, in most of the demons, in the twili, in the sheika/sheik, in groose and in the gerudo. There are a number more. In MM the happy mask salesman tells us that an evil tribe created the mask. I have read some pretty convincing theories connecting the fused shadow from TP with majoras mask , so that also links a connection between the twili and the MM demons. Where? Not sure. I hope another game in the near future touches on this.

11. Heck, if we're comparing the Gerudo, Groose, and Gannon, the articles section of the ZD website just posted a long article about what the cutscene in WindWaker revealed about Ganondorf's story, and how he is more like an anti-hero who was corrupted in his efforts to protect his Gerudo tribe above all, which fueled his hatred for the gods. I think the inherently good intended / yet easily corrupted Groose fits into this disposition very well. Even if its not Nintendo's intention to make Groose related to Ganondorf, one cannot ignore the heavy parallels here in personality AND physical appearance.

Have a look at these links to see what I've found:
http://www.zeldawiki.org/Eye_Symbol

http://www.zeldawiki.org/Gerudo_Symbol

http://ancientskullkid.livejournal.com/1349.html

http://forums.zeldainformer.com/threads/venerable-idealists-theorising-alliance.7778/page-34

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/124354-what-happened-to-the-sheikah-in-tp.html

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/62313-symbols-of-the-interlopers.html

http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2012/01/from-manipulative-villain-to-fallen-anti-hero-ganondorfs-transformation/

http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2011/12/comparing-skyward-sword-story-and-characters/#more-28096

:fairy: THANKS FOR READING!!! :fairy:

 

[Admiral Makar]

You're right, BlueRep. I think we should at least acknowledge that they are speculations which go off of hints and gossip stone mentions throughout the series. But I had the idea that the humanoid looking people (non zora, etc.) were separated into a few different kinds of people. First there is the whole distinction that has been noticed about the game specifically separating Hyrulean and Hylian in different instances. This link here talks about Hylians . I first noticed the difference when playing ocarina of time and talking to people in kakariko or talking to gossip stones. They say (what I gathered) that there are the humans who live in hyrule. These people are called Hyruleans. I guess you could call Gerudos hyruleans but since they are kind of a nomad tribe (also mentioned in games and on boards) they might not like to assiciate themselves as lemmings living in the kingdom under royal Hyrule rule. They ARE thieves after all so I could see them rebelling against government. Hylians have something special about them. In their family tree they are somehow linked to the original royal family or (now that skyward sword has expanded the backstory) the original race of skyloft. A Twilight Princess quote from "Shad" at the bottom of that page I just linked to details it. Its also mentioned in OoT and A Link to the Past that Hylians have traces of blood from magic people which makes them special (even if their magic abilities have been watered down over the lineage line). We see some physical distinctions with the long pointed ears. The only other races to have long pointed ears (besides the animalistic races like zoras etc.) are demon tribes and shieka. You'll notice that only some of the gerudo and some of the Hyruleans have pointy ears. This is the case in quite a few games. Theres also traditional markers such as blue tattoos or symbols they wear. Now as for the Gerudo skin i really think that can either be just from living in the desert, or being a warrior (in medieval times women liked to keep their skin pale. Those with tan skin were considered worker trash, slaves or savages-- in Impa's case she is a warrior). The red eyes and hair though is something that needs to be inherited. I still think the all women thing feels like a characteristic that is tied only to Oot since that's just how their specific tribe operated (and of course the bazaarro tribe in MM). There are lots of gossip stones that hint to specific people being Hylian (as opposed to hyrulean) in Oot. I'll try to find them somehwere on the web and post them. I think what the pointy ears thing can show us is that those further down the timeline with pointed ears are more closely related to the ancient race. Ancient races (skyloftians, hylians, sheika, demons and korkori etc) have closer ties to magic and might play a role in the mystery that unravels in the game plot

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

I really don't think Groose is in anyway connected with the Gerudo,Just because he has the red hair like them poeple have been jumping the gun and assuming there is a relation.
anyway the symbols thing is very interesting, great post.

 

[Admiral Makar]

Thanks dude! Alright well I guess because it's not really important I can drop the whole Groose is a Gerudo thing. It's much less interesting. What I'm most intrigued by is the involvement of the Sheika and the symbols. I wanna know how they are connected along the line, and whether they have a crossover with demons, twili or those people from minish cap. Even the Gerudo in general. The symbols and the red eyes (not just the plain ones, but the bloodshot red eyes with the yellow border and the pupils directly in the middle). I would love to hear what people know about that.

I have to be honest here. I never played Oracle, Minish Cap or Four Swords. I want to though. But I'm 24 and have a full time job & college courses lol. I have no time. I did read the stories and the cannon though. In case there are any hole in my knowledge about the villians or characters in these game I wanna ask everyone to chime in incase I'm off about something. Thanks!