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Sonic: Is it too late to improve?

Sonic is still around, we see him in Mario Olympic games and Smash Bros. Recently he has had two (technically three) exclusive games on Nintendo consoles but each of them have been progressively worse than the last.

Production disagreements and tensions seemingly ruined the big alternate universe push that was Sonic Boom, and now with Sega looking heavily into the mobile gaming sector it could be a while before we see Sonic again in an HD home console release.

One would think that Sonic would be a winner on mobile devices if he returned to his 2d roots.

However, if there were to be another home console Sonic game, do you think his recent (decade long run of) bad games have deterred people entirely from his games?

If a 3D home console game that was actually decent were to be released do you think people would be interested and take that leap, or is it simply too late for Sonic to improve both his games and his name?
 

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
V2 White Male
Quite honestly it's got to a point now where I think Sega need to put this guy down or at least allow the hacking community behind some fantastic Sonic game hacks to produce some 2D sonic games as they seem to have a firm grasp on what constitutes as great level design. Many of you probably know Sega has more or less lost the source code to many of their older Master System and Genises titles, including the Blue Blur's.
A guy called the The Taxman and another well known member that come from within the Sonic fan hacking community pretty much made a near identical engine to the classic sonic games.
Sega were cool to allow Taxman and co to use the engine the duo had made to remake and add additional content to older Sonic games and port them to new devices, so these aren't mere emulations. Their engine currently powers Sonic CD for Android, IOS, and PC furthermore both Sonic 1 and 2 for Android also run on their enging, for some strange reason Sonic 1 and 2 haven't been released for PC, which sucks as these games include widescreen support and additional features such as a lost level.
Taxman wanted to add a couple more zones to Sonic CD and wanted to come up with a true final boss for the game since these features had been cut from the original but Sega weren't happy with that, which is a great shame.

It would be cool if the hacking community could use that engine to release a new original 2D Sonic title in the same manner of Megaman 8, it may not be a step forward but it would at least mean we could have some decent 2D sonic games again. :(

Picture-7.png

Concept of the final fever level Whitehead had planned for the newer version of Sonic CD

As for the 3D Sonic games I'm not really sure what you can do there, Sonic Generations was good but I'm not sure if I was merely being blinded by the huge amount of nostalgia it packed with it.
Sonic never did transition well with 3D, and I've seen literally hours worth of people analysing as to why this is, and I think they pretty much nailed one of the key factors being that sonic never truly was focused on speed alone which is what many of the 3D titles try to do. The Megadrive games had those zones were you could speed through them as fast as you wanted, but you also had the choice to pick another route which focus more on platforming. What stood out about Sonic's platforming compared to other games at the time like Mario was all of it's angles and general physics of Sonic himself. It's really satisfying to roll into a ball, descend a slope, gain huge amounts of momentum launching high into the air and remembering where a position of a Badnik was so that you could then land on it and proceed to launch even higher into the air and discover that secret platform; No game at the time had those sorts of physics and that to me is what made Sonic more featured oriented than Mario.

I believe Sega somewhat realised this and tried to emulate those old features into Sonic Lost World but from what I've heard that game turned out terrible. Slowing down sonic during certain segments may be the answer. The 3D games need to be less like a Rollercoaster ride and more like a playground for us to goof around with some decent physics.
So to conclude, Since Sega have some diehard Sonic fans (somehow.... maybe it's all just furries now... :I) I guess we can say it's never too late to turn it around, I mean things were looking up with Sonic Colours and Generations which were released in succession, then Sega fudged it all up again. ;I

In the meantime I'll carry on playing brilliant half made Sonic rom hacks that get abandoned after a year or so. :)
 

Mercedes

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Location
In bed
Gender
Female
Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations I would say proved it isn't too late, with the latter having sold quite well to boot. But I'd say absolutely no game is beyond saving; you just need the right developer.

Sonic is just in that awkward spot that Silent Hill was in, and I suppose with the cancellation of the latest installment still is in that there's nothing wrong with the franchise as a whole, no inherent design flaws that need sorted, it's just that the publisher kept handing it to incompetent developers. And interest will die down when crap gets churned out. But the audience can still be saved if the quality of the games as a whole rises. I thought that was going to happen when we had Colours > Generations, seemed to be continuous improvements, but then Sonic Boom happened.
 

Lozjam

A Cool, Cool Mountain
Joined
May 24, 2015
Quite honestly it's got to a point now where I think Sega need to put this guy down or at least allow the hacking community behind some fantastic Sonic game hacks to produce some 2D sonic games as they seem to have a firm grasp on what constitutes as great level design. Many of you probably know Sega has more or less lost the source code to many of their older Master System and Genises titles, including the Blue Blur's.
A guy called the The Taxman and another well known member that come from within the Sonic fan hacking community pretty much made a near identical engine to the classic sonic games.
Sega were cool to allow Taxman and co to use the engine the duo had made to remake and add additional content to older Sonic games and port them to new devices, so these aren't mere emulations. Their engine currently powers Sonic CD for Android, IOS, and PC furthermore both Sonic 1 and 2 for Android also run on their enging, for some strange reason Sonic 1 and 2 haven't been released for PC, which sucks as these games include widescreen support and additional features such as a lost level.
Taxman wanted to add a couple more zones to Sonic CD and wanted to come up with a true final boss for the game since these features had been cut from the original but Sega weren't happy with that, which is a great shame.

It would be cool if the hacking community could use that engine to release a new original 2D Sonic title in the same manner of Megaman 8, it may not be a step forward but it would at least mean we could have some decent 2D sonic games again. :(

Picture-7.png

Concept of the final fever level Whitehead had planned for the newer version of Sonic CD

As for the 3D Sonic games I'm not really sure what you can do there, Sonic Generations was good but I'm not sure if I was merely being blinded by the huge amount of nostalgia it packed with it.
Sonic never did transition well with 3D, and I've seen literally hours worth of people analysing as to why this is, and I think they pretty much nailed one of the key factors being that sonic never truly was focused on speed alone which is what many of the 3D titles try to do. The Megadrive games had those zones were you could speed through them as fast as you wanted, but you also had the choice to pick another route which focus more on platforming. What stood out about Sonic's platforming compared to other games at the time like Mario was all of it's angles and general physics of Sonic himself. It's really satisfying to roll into a ball, descend a slope, gain huge amounts of momentum launching high into the air and remembering where a position of a Badnik was so that you could then land on it and proceed to launch even higher into the air and discover that secret platform; No game at the time had those sorts of physics and that to me is what made Sonic more featured oriented than Mario.

I believe Sega somewhat realised this and tried to emulate those old features into Sonic Lost World but from what I've heard that game turned out terrible. Slowing down sonic during certain segments may be the answer. The 3D games need to be less like a Rollercoaster ride and more like a playground for us to goof around with some decent physics.
So to conclude, Since Sega have some diehard Sonic fans (somehow.... maybe it's all just furries now... :I) I guess we can say it's never too late to turn it around, I mean things were looking up with Sonic Colours and Generations which were released in succession, then Sega fudged it all up again. ;I

In the meantime I'll carry on playing brilliant half made Sonic rom hacks that get abandoned after a year or so. :)

Sonic Lost World wasn't as bad as the press and people made it out to be. Sure, Sonic Lost World did have some issues, but it was truly fantastic in some levels, while just eh in others. This isn't unlike Sonic Adventure 2.
Just a reminder as well, Sonic Lost World got a very similar metascore to Hyrule Warriors. Is Hyrule Warriors a "terrible game"? No it isn't! The same is very much the same for Lost World.
Lost World is a good step in the right direction, they just need to shore up their mechanics.
 

Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Location
England
Gender
Absolute unit
Sonic needs putting down for a long time.
His reputation is tarnished and I think people just need to forget for a while.
Then in 10 years time, perhaps a new developer can give a reboot a shot.
 

mαrkαsscoρ

Mr. SidleInYourDMs
ZD Champion
Joined
May 5, 2012
Location
American Wasteland
sonic has been reduced to meme now
he's a good example of an icon character who fell down HARD,so to be honest,its hard to take him seriously these days

generations was still the last good sonic game
 

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
V2 White Male
Sonic Lost World wasn't as bad as the press and people made it out to be. Sure, Sonic Lost World did have some issues, but it was truly fantastic in some levels, while just eh in others. This isn't unlike Sonic Adventure 2.
Just a reminder as well, Sonic Lost World got a very similar metascore to Hyrule Warriors. Is Hyrule Warriors a "terrible game"? No it isn't! The same is very much the same for Lost World.
Lost World is a good step in the right direction, they just need to shore up their mechanics.

Yeah I've heard it's more of a mixed bag, I've seen some really good reviewers touch upon both it's faults and what it does right. I've been meaning to give it a purchase once I can find a decent price for a used copy to play it for myself.
 
I've never been the biggest Sonic fan, but it really is disheartening to see one of gaming's most iconic franchises reduced to a laughing stock. There are still some signs of a good game from time to time, like Sonic Colors and Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1, but they're too few and far between. The majority of Sonic games are Sonic Boom quality.

I think the best thing that can happen to Sonic is having Sega be bought out by another company willing to improve the franchise. Nintendo, Ubisoft (Rayman), and Media Molecule (LittleBigPlanet) stick out in my mind. Sonic needs to be created by people who are willing to bring the franchise up to modern visual, platforming, puzzle, and self-created standards.
 

ihateghirahim

The Fierce Deity
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Location
Inside the Moon
At this point the fanbase is tired and the company is tired. There's also never been that definitive highly-rated well-designed 3d sonic. It's a franchise that never made the jump properly. Honestly, with Sega focusing on mobile, I'd predict Sonic's console decline.

He's by no means dead, but I'd say Sega's not gonna put much money into his future. Sonic needs a savior or to be sold to the Big N fast. These days with Mario and Sonic, Lost World , Boom, and Smash Bros, he feels like a Nintendo character already.
 

Bishop Rodan

Godslayer
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Sonic Lost World wasn't very good. I'd say the stage in Sonic Adventure 1 of the same name is better than the entire game.

That aside, while I won't go as far as to say Sonic is beyond saving, it looks pretty grim for the Blue Blur. Sonic Boom is a new nadir for the series, on the same level as the infamous Sonic 2006 (which to date is the worst game I have ever spent money on. Even if it was only two bucks, it wasn't even worth that). And with Sega downsizing, I'd say the best hope for Sonic is for Sega to be bought by someone who has the resources and the drive to invest in rebuilding the franchise. Sonic is pretty much at rock bottom now; hopefully, there's nowhere to go but up.

If that doesn't happen, though, I'm not sure what's next for Sonic, or if the franchise even has a future. Still, it's a shame he couldn't go out on a high note.
 

Salem

SICK
Joined
May 18, 2013
No, it's not too late, Sega just needs to pull their heads out of their asses, that's all, it shouldn't be too difficult.
 

onebizarrekai

gay energy
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Location
New York
Gender
Agender
It's the inconsistency that's Sonic's problem, they can't seem to decide what they want to do with their games. Sometimes it goes well, and sometimes not so much.

The whole point of a series is constant improvement, so it's never too late, in my opinion.
 

Lozjam

A Cool, Cool Mountain
Joined
May 24, 2015
Not if they never learn...
Weeeeeeee

Even without regarding Rise of Lyric, the Sonic Boom name is still heavily tarnished. Shattered Crystal was underwhelming to say the least, and yet they seem to think highly gimmicky gameplay is the answer to fix it.
Go home Sega... Go home....
 

Justac00lguy

BooBoo
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Gender
Shewhale
Yes. They've tried nearly everything now. I'm sorry, but Sonic just isn't what it once was. Hell even what it once was a brief period with little competition. For it be a juggernaut again is near impossible considering that platform games aren't exactly hot in the mainstream gaming scene.
 

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