Game Thread Rag's CHAOS MAFIA √−i by Ragnarokio (NOT BY STORM) [GAME THREAD]

[ExLight]

also not sure what the loved thing was but I don't seem to be affected by anything new so far

What's everyone's favorite ice cream

pineapple or powdered milk with strawberries

 

[a'lana]

JFC I check this thread 20 times during the night and nothing

Now there's like 20 posts

I think talking about game related stuff at night is bad. If your out of NK territory but you start to play your hand at night you could become the NK which is harmful to town because the dead are often easily forgotten

So I'm just gonna sit here and talk about random ****.

What's everyone's favorite ice cream

although a benefit to being able to talk at night is if you get nk'd you get the chance to still talk about how your reads evolved after the lynch happened

 

[TheCapsFan]

How so? I'm still going to scum hunt. I'm just throwing thoughts out there as possibilities, in case I die and there's a possibility that that's the case but no one else says so. I think it would be weirder for mafia to say that they're townreading most people, since mafia actively wants to make others look bad to get mislynches.

eh idk, it just sounded like something scum might take a risk to say, given the visibility of cult discussion so far

 

[TheCapsFan]

also my favorite ice cream is (unsurprisingly) mint chocolate chip

 

[15377]

Because I read the wagons wrong just now when I went back and looked. Lmao. But even then, you must have missed me changing my read on KoD to a town lean before that. My suspicion on him before was rather weak and I admitted as such, and when he posted with an substantial post it felt more like town KoD so I changed that. Whereas Fext hadn't done anything to look townie to me yet. Also, that still creates as 3 v 3 v 2 scenario, which is what I was also trying to avoid. One vote on me makes it a 3 way tie, and if people come in close to eod and start switching votes it's harder to keep up with the count making it more likely that someone switches to prevent a tie, someone else does the same, and we still end up with a tie. Which kills more than just 1 person.

I didn't absolutely think Fext was cult leader but I thought it was a possibility. I also thought it was a possibility he was just in a neighborhood with Alana, which would mean he could be any alignment, and Alana went from somewhat defending him to voting him so in a world where they're neighbors then she had reason to suspect him from their OC. This was a theory and nothing I believed 100%, but in the chance that it was true it made Fext look sus. Alana was nowhere in my reads besides null really, so I dunno where you get that she was in the higher end of my non-town reads. Unless you mean with the idea that Fext was cult leader who targeted her n0. In which case, I still vote Fext there? My decisions make sense, and your spin of them doesn't.

No, no. I read where you said one post flipped him the only other person you've voiced serious suspicion on to probably town not gonna lynch. Given you saying you're town reading too many people I would figure you'd be more willing to move him from sus to null but still lynchable myself unless your intent is to deliberately stay as neutral as you can.

You don't have to absolutely think it. If you're susing Fext for the possibility that he's cult and culted a'lana than it's natural to sus a'lana for being cult as well, which is my point and what you're posts definitively lack. A'lana isn't an easy lynch sell in that scenario though so...
Anyways the entire point of this exercise is to pressure your read on a'lana but I lost my train of thought here. Don't post and work is today's lesson.

Yea. Doesn't matter if the votes on her are jokes, votes are votes. If she wanted to increase the gap between hers and the Fext one it makes sense for her to vote the leading one.

It's not the towniest thing to do but it's still fairly NAI to me in this context. Specially from Minish, iirc she hates being lynched regardless of her alignment so she'll self preserve regardless.


Alana explained it p well.
If Cap Lunch was mafia him jumping last second at the Fext wagon would make him look fairly bad at first, which is undesired for mafia.
I think it would've been a lot scummier if he added a last second vote that did nothing to a mafia lynch, because that would be purely for towncred. In the other way around he just got himself mafiacred which is just... not something mafia would do...? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE

Aye, votes are votes and you're arguing survival against non existent votes. Also your logic there works with every person ever. I had no votes but I could have picked up votes in a CFD so my vote placed anywhere is justified because it's survival vote increasing the gap between me and whoever I vote for. But anyways the point wasn't that there was no context of self pres in there, it was that the vote is far more nuanced than "this is the only thing I can do to survive" and so requires more introspection than just immediate dismissal.

That makes about as much sense as getting into a land war in asia. But seriously do we really have to do the whole song and dance or should we just skip to the part where it's revealed both cups have iocane powder in them?

What's everyone's favorite ice cream

Now you're really just copying me.

@capsfan
"more irony in CL talking about how ex wasn't answering his question about being unloved and then he just ignores this one lol"

I read that and thought he was breadcrumbing something, but didn't know what the hell he was talking about at first, I just did realize what he meant this morning about the Rag cult rules. Because its retorical at face value, obviously I was capable of voting Ex, or that's what I would claim. Then the matter of proving I can vote, which would force my vote right before deadline unless I got a vote count just for me. So basically I had to say something clever, but I didn't know wtf he was talking about at the time.

I'll fully expect you to follow up tomorrow then.

eh idk, it just sounded like something scum might take a risk to say, given the visibility of cult discussion so far

You should be pointing out how she said that while not really scum hunting at the same time.

 

[Morbid Minish]

eh idk, it just sounded like something scum might take a risk to say, given the visibility of cult discussion so far

But what point would scum have in saying that? To make people think that there aren't mafia so they only try to lynch cult? Even though the first flip of mafia would dispell that theory, and any NKs are likely to be mafia? As scum I don't really see a point of saying that to try to dissuade scum hunting or something when it's easily disproven.

No, no. I read where you said one post flipped him the only other person you've voiced serious suspicion on to probably town not gonna lynch. Given you saying you're town reading too many people I would figure you'd be more willing to move him from sus to null but still lynchable myself unless your intent is to deliberately stay as neutral as you can.

Because I had very weak suspicion on him to begin with. And his post that I started town leaning him from was way more townie KoD than my suspicion of him was scum KoD. That's why he didn't go to null. I don't try to stay neutral as scum, because it's a lot easier to point out scummy stuff when you know way more info. But when I'm town I'm trying not to mislynch town so things are trickier.

You don't have to absolutely think it. If you're susing Fext for the possibility that he's cult and culted a'lana than it's natural to sus a'lana for being cult as well, which is my point and what you're posts definitively lack. A'lana isn't an easy lynch sell in that scenario though so...
Anyways the entire point of this exercise is to pressure your read on a'lana but I lost my train of thought here. Don't post and work is today's lesson.

My thought was that Fext was EITHER cult leader or neighbor. I didn't think he had culted Alana n0. If he was neighbor I thought he was more likely to be mafia or some other 3rd party with the ability to add people to a neighborhood. That's why when Alana said she didn't think he was cult leader and then suspected him later on, I was suspicious of him and not her. Alana is bull to me because I'm not really sure how to read her yet.

You should be pointing out how she said that while not really scum hunting at the same time.

I've been scum hunting though. Just because I have more town reads than anything doesn't mean I haven't been looking for scum. I've pointed out things I've found suspicious, even if I've gone on to town read/not want to lynch those people. Because I can see certain things as sus, but also see more of someone's town range as well.

 

[KingofDominaria]

@ Caps:

It's in the same post you quoted the list from.

 

[ExLight]

reminder that posting too much during the night will result in a modkill

 

[KingofDominaria]

I think I'm done parsing most of the posts.

Final Vote Count
Fext - 5 (DW, Neon, A'lana, Minish, CL)
Minish - 2 (Squid, Storm)
kOd - 1 (Exlight)
Exlight- 1 (Fext)
Dawning Winds - 1 (KoD)
Cynical Squid - 1 (Capsfan)
Libk - 1 (Numbers)
Not Voting - 1 (Libk)

With Fext having flipped town, that was a misread on him due to his perspective on Ex. Just so you (Caps) get some clarity for your earlier question, the whole exchange I had with Dawning ended up having me think of a split between you and him. That is, only one of you is scum. Not both. That's why you got moved into the upper middle of my list since, if you're town, you're perspectives are decent enough. That even puts you above Ex since his whole progress on me was odd enough to get an eyebrow raise and put him at/above neutral where Neon stands (more or less).

With the final vote count: Dawning, Neon, and CL are the ones I'm most interested in given my own perspective of Dawning, the fact CL has had a questionable approach to his stated PoE with Dawning and myself, and with Neon still sitting over there doing nothing of relevance (other then being a part of Fext's lynch).

I've got no qualms with Alana or Cin Min. Post-wise their content is fine with no glaring problems (like I would note with CL or Ex). I've followed Cin Min's progressions (most notably how she's viewing me) and her stated reasoning is coming off as honest as far it seems to me. Alana, more than most, has been actively engaging with multiple slots to a high degree which is a positive strictly because that seems a bit too high effort for mafia, unless they are power wolfing. Even then, Alana isn't acting -- too bold or insincere with her interactions. Like, good faith is being given with the interactions so that's some solid town playing (or good impersonation of town as wolf either or).

That makes about as much sense as getting into a land war in asia. But seriously do we really have to do the whole song and dance or should we just skip to the part where it's revealed both cups have iocane powder in them?

If anyone touches JD, I will scour this thread until your broken body lies on the ground for your crimes.



Cin Min
alana
JD
Caps

Ex/Neon

CL
Dawning

Inactives: Libk, Squid, Storm

This is what my rankings look atm, but it is important to mention that we do have these people that exist doing ???. Obligatory there's got to be one scum in that pool -- probably between Squid or Storm since, as far as I can tell from the Vote Counts, they left their votes and never did anything with them whereas Libk, at least, never threw out a vote to let whatever happen.

So if I insert them into my list it should look more like

Libk
Ex/Neon (maybe, although the greatest thing about Neon is her doing not much that I'm used to seeing whereas Ex has bad progression much like CL's lack of progression -- or just bad progression too I suppose)
Squid/Storm
Ex/CL
Dawning


idk, I feel like Ex should be a tick below Neon. Maybe not at the same level as CL -- comparable maybe to Squid/Storm though idk how serious I'd compare Ex's progression on me with those two votes being left on Cin Min in terms of scummyness. Has Ex even addressed his whole perspective on me because I don't recall anything in depth to explain ultimately voting for me with his earlier pov in thread.

And as for Neon: despite how much she sits here wallowing in whatever pool of misery it is she is in, I've seen her be more serious even with her own brand of playstyle. Like, sitting there and being all willy nilly about tea leaves and reads is w/e, but when it comes to ACTUALLY playing, Neon can do that. I'm just not seeing that here. No hard consideration for the reads in a nuanced way that butts heads and causes her to double down and be stubborn (much like in our champs game much to my chagrin).

Especially with night chat there's no good reason to not engage and offer more than what she has which is mildly disappointing to say the least.

Yes, as much as I am being hard on Neon, rest assured I know there is a difference between how I feel about Neon's gameplay vs what's occurring wrt to the rest of the thread. Neon not doing a whole lot may not be a hard reason to scum read, especially when you've got two low profile/inactive people leaving votes on people, but at least some serious gameplay would be more refreshing coming from someone I know is more capable than what they're doing. Unless they're sandbagging.

On that note, I may only be human, but I can throw hands with the best of em until the day I cannot. *Looks at JD.*

 

[KingofDominaria]

Stop trying to perturb discussion, Ex.

 

[TheCapsFan]

numbers this is why you are here to clean up my mess

But what point would scum have in saying that? To make people think that there aren't mafia so they only try to lynch cult? Even though the first flip of mafia would dispell that theory, and any NKs are likely to be mafia? As scum I don't really see a point of saying that to try to dissuade scum hunting or something when it's easily disproven.

hypothetically, if you are scum and a partner exists in the more widely townread/active players (you, alana, numbers, maybe kod?) i can see you making that statement as you'd be pretty comfortable where you're at rn - all you gotta do is focus town's energy on the cult & focus energy away from whoever your third partner would be, if they exist. yeah, the first flip of mafia would dispell it but in this world i think you'd have a pretty easy time keeping that from happening

you're right though about the NKs

idk it just feels like it was something which could have been said to throw off the town, i can see where it might just be postulation as well

 

[15377]

But what point would scum have in saying that? To make people think that there aren't mafia so they only try to lynch cult? Even though the first flip of mafia would dispell that theory, and any NKs are likely to be mafia? As scum I don't really see a point of saying that to try to dissuade scum hunting or something when it's easily disproven.

Caps said I'm here to clean up his messes so imma fully butt into this conversation. The point is to convince people they aren't looking for Mafia. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter if it lasts forever, if you get even two days in where the focus isn't on lynching Mafia, you've given the team a good head start. The first flip of Mafia is going to be tricky to pull off if people aren't looking to lynch Mafia as well. I mean at that point Mafia doesn't even really have to look townie, they just have to look not culty. As for NKs, the games no hard claims makes it easy to push that notion onto a vig or SK (as nobody can direct claim or counter claim the notion), especially if you're controlling the narrative to do so with your kill choices. It's a very low risk gamble for scum to make. Either people go for it and you get your head start or they disagree and you brush it off as just a thought.

Because I had very weak suspicion on him to begin with. And his post that I started town leaning him from was way more townie KoD than my suspicion of him was scum KoD. That's why he didn't go to null. I don't try to stay neutral as scum, because it's a lot easier to point out scummy stuff when you know way more info. But when I'm town I'm trying not to mislynch town so things are trickier.

I feel like this is fake news. Not the KoD stuff. Nothing he's done has been out of his town wheel house like I said before. But your self scum meta. Take last chaos game, for example. You spent the entirety of day 1 skirting around casing anybody. DW even called you out for not being as involved as your town meta seems to them. As for being afraid of mislynches, Fext was the poster boy for likely to get mislynched the moment you disregarded the fact that his only experience with cults has been benign to assert that he should have a baseline belief that cults are hostile. On the contrary that sounds exactly like an attack based on TMI considering you did say your role had cult information in it as well.

My thought was that Fext was EITHER cult leader or neighbor. I didn't think he had culted Alana n0. If he was neighbor I thought he was more likely to be mafia or some other 3rd party with the ability to add people to a neighborhood. That's why when Alana said she didn't think he was cult leader and then suspected him later on, I was suspicious of him and not her. Alana is bull to me because I'm not really sure how to read her yet.

What I'm hearing here then is that you had even more reason to expect a mislynch considering you suspected a'lana of being OC with Fext. If culted OC isn't an option on the table then that suspicion should have pushed you away from the notion that Fext was the cult leader, which was your entire suspicion on Fext.

I've been scum hunting though. Just because I have more town reads than anything doesn't mean I haven't been looking for scum. I've pointed out things I've found suspicious, even if I've gone on to town read/not want to lynch those people. Because I can see certain things as sus, but also see more of someone's town range as well.

Eh? I find it questionable that you were because you seem to be teetering between chasing people for scummy behavior and creating a solid town base to go PoE style with as an alternative without much commitment to either direction. Having one foot in let's you say "hey look I'm doing the thing" but without the follow through it's just...eh?

 

[a'lana]

ok this are my reads atm

most to least sus:

Captainlunch -only alive person who has actually pinged me. while Exlight's reasoning for townraeding him isnt awful multiple things have pinged me about him for example the calling for a lurker lynch when he barely posted himself, what Capsfan pointed out about not liking the wagons despite scumreading two of them, him calling fext a lurker and voting him solely for policy reasons when like capsfan said again two of his other scumreads were wagons this would be fine had he for example said he just didnt want a tie but his reasoning was literally 'policy lynch' over TWO of his actual suspects

Storm and Cynical: two of the three lowest posters, PoE but I also think they likely aren't both scum due to voting Minish together also those two both being scum would just be too easy. at most one scum in them

Neon: idfk

libk: if not for the love stuff he'd be in same tier as Storm and Cynical and the love stuff should technically be NAI already

Exlight: actually other than the cult stuff I dont really see a reason to townread him, I have seen him more obvious town than this

DW: I initially townread him on D1 for the amount of effort he put into iso's but is now relatively more null

Minish: started townleaning her for her posts during EoD, liked her reevaluating KoD and also at the time vibed with fext being only wagon she suspected

Capsfan: I like his case on captainlunch. while it was based on facts I hadn't realized myself I think his reasoning is very good its something I would have suspected Captainlunch for had I noticed those facts

Numbers and KoD: both are IMO very different from their scum metas. While I don't agree with Number's reasoning for suspecting Minish and ExLight I really feel like compared to the previous game he is obv town here, seems genuinely trying to solve instead of tunneling someone over a philosophy clash on whether or not roleblocker should use ability

 

[TheCapsFan]

phase end when? 8 minutes?

 

[Ragnarokio]

day ended around 24 hours ago. its currently night. next day starts in around 15 hours i think, but it'll probably end up late and i'll accept late submissions for night actions