WW-Wii U One of the Worst Final Bosses in the Series

[Tetra's Wink]

I love the windwaker, in fact I adore it. But something really bothers me - the final boss. I hate it purely because of the awkwardness of the controls when it comes to zelda shooting the light arrows at you so you can reflect them. WHY OH WHY did zelda keep telling me her plan when I'd already heard it? This made the camera angle change automatically, this messing everything up. It was VERY annoying. I honestly thought they would have fixed this in the remake...

Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but I really loathe that final boss. (And I thought Molgera was annoying...)

I also dislike the earth temple for it's mirror-shield controls (good idea but bad execution) but that's another topic...

Anyway, do others feel similar about the final boss?

 

[Azure Sage]

I don't feel the same way at all. I've always found the Mirror Shield to be very easy to control. It's very easy to direct the light and make it go where you want it to. I honestly can't see how you'd have problems with that. And in the final boss battle, all you have to do is hold the shield; you don't even have to aim it. You just have to watch for Zelda and be sure she's aiming at your shield. And the camera change only lasts for that small cutscene, in which you can't even move. So I don't understand how that could throw you off at all.

 

[Wolf Sage]

Simply hold the shield while [WiiU button]-targeting Ganondorf, and let the princess handle the rest. (Assuming you are talking about Ganondorf. You were unclear as to which final boss you were talking about, so yeah...)

 

[Tetra's Wink]

Hmm must be just me then :s

I dunno, that camera thing really puts me off. I guess everyone has their individual strengths and weaknesses - for example most people thought that the spirit tracks controls were easier than the phantom hourglass controls, but I thought the opposite...

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

The final battle bothered me for a completely other reason - just the simplicity and lack of difficulty.

I absolutely despise the reaction commands in WW, and I can say with extreme certainty that I hope they never, ever appear again. I get that it makes the game flashy, and creates a feeling of excitement, but just the fact that you could hold the R button and wait for a button to flash, then damage an enemy very heavily, just nuked any difficulty that there could have been had when it came to one-on-one sword fights. I'm talking mainly about the Darknuts (or whatever they are, I get confused), and the final boss Ganondorf. I remember going to the Cave of Ordeals equivalent that WW had, and the whole thing just being a joke because the hardest enemy, the Darknuts, were an absolute cakewalk with the parry feature. I want that part of the game to be HARD. TP's was downright sinister, because that final room with the three Darknuts was near impossible to pull off flawlessly. But Ganondorf is just inexcusable.

When all I have to do to win is wait for the arrow, hold my shield up, and press A when the button glows, I have a real problem with that. Yes, it's cool that he gets stabbed in the head. But there's no real satisfaction to it, because you just did the same parry move that you had been doing the entire game, just with a different outcome. You couldn't do that with Ganon in OoT; hell, you didn't even have the Master Sword for half of the battle, and having enough magic was a legitimate concern against Ganon (don't get me started on Master Quest, oh my god...). I guess arguably in TP all you had to do was backslash, but at least that still took timing and button execution, as opposed to just pressing one button when you heard a little noise.

I think this boss battle gets WAY too much of a pass from everyone, just because the finishing move is cool. Sorry if I seem a little angry, but I just never understood the massive appeal of the battle, especially when you look past the mood and presentation.

 

[Garo]

I think this boss battle gets WAY too much of a pass from everyone, just because the finishing move is cool. Sorry if I seem a little angry, but I just never understood the massive appeal of the battle, especially when you look past the mood and presentation.

Mood and presentation is everything! The boss battle isn't the swordsman's duel that everybody had been anticipating since the Spaceworld demo - but having been given a swordsman's duel at the end of Twilight Princess, I find that it isn't quite what I had been hoping for - but it's nonetheless a very grand encounter. The exposition that takes place just before it, with the King of Hyrule making the wish on the Triforce to bring the ocean down to bear upon Hyrule, is the final blow in Ganon's coffin. He's already lost by the time the boss battle starts, which lends the entire ordeal an air of resignation. He's dead already - he just wants to take you down with him. That is a pretty strong character beat, and I have argued many times in the past that his character in Wind Waker is one of the series' strongest characters. Having that character resonance to the battle rather than just "IT IS THE END OF THE GAME, WE MUST FIGHT," is really quite affecting.

On top of that there's the score and the visual splendor of the arena, with water cascading down on all sides... it's just such an incredibly awe-inspiring scene that, regardless of any mechanical short comings of the fight itself, manages to be one of the most fitfully epic final fights in the series.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Mood and presentation is everything! The boss battle isn't the swordsman's duel that everybody had been anticipating since the Spaceworld demo - but having been given a swordsman's duel at the end of Twilight Princess, I find that it isn't quite what I had been hoping for - but it's nonetheless a very grand encounter. The exposition that takes place just before it, with the King of Hyrule making the wish on the Triforce to bring the ocean down to bear upon Hyrule, is the final blow in Ganon's coffin. He's already lost by the time the boss battle starts, which lends the entire ordeal an air of resignation. He's dead already - he just wants to take you down with him. That is a pretty strong character beat, and I have argued many times in the past that his character in Wind Waker is one of the series' strongest characters. Having that character resonance to the battle rather than just "IT IS THE END OF THE GAME, WE MUST FIGHT," is really quite affecting.

On top of that there's the score and the visual splendor of the arena, with water cascading down on all sides... it's just such an incredibly awe-inspiring scene that, regardless of any mechanical short comings of the fight itself, manages to be one of the most fitfully epic final fights in the series.

This is exactly my problem with it; people let all of this cloud what is ultimately an incredibly flawed and easy boss battle. Look at what Oot pulled off -

OoT has Ganondorf defeated, his entire castle destroyed. In one last effort of desperation, he transforms into his monstrous form, Ganon. No subtitle. Ganon. He knocks the Master Sword, what you know you MUST HAVE to defeat him, away from you. And you're forced to go toe-to-toe with this massive beast that you can't possibly beat. An incredibly fitting soundtrack follows this - I don't have to link to it, because everyone has heard it. The weather is terrible and dark, you're constantly being trampled by Ganon, and Zelda screams in horror each time it happens because she's locked out and can't do a single thing about it. You're constantly strapped for magic as you desperately try to make good use of the only thing that helps, the Light Arrows, which drain your magic an unbelievable amount.

MM is also a good example that I could outline, but I feel that OoT would hammer the point the best.

So what is my point? Yes, presentation and mood can do a lot. But it was proven with OoT and MM that you could have exactly that, on top of an exciting and challenging boss battle. Hell, MM is probably MORE challenging that OoT's, but it retains an incredibly strange and foreboding mood as Majora transforms into an even more demonic and sadistic form throughout the battle.

So having a good mood/atmosphere shouldn't give WW brownie points for some reason. Atmosphere/mood should be a given in a Zelda final battle, not something on its own to praise, because nearly ALL of the 3D titles, and even some of the 2D ones, pull it off nicely. It needs to be judged also on the merits of challenge and design, which WW unfortunately fails on both fronts with.

 

[Tetra's Wink]

TWW Ganondorf is well known as one of the best boss fights in Zelda. So to your post I respond:

Well, ya know, it's all opinion.

I love this game. But I hated the final boss and the earth temple, and molgera too.

This is exactly my problem with it; people let all of this cloud what is ultimately an incredibly flawed and easy boss battle. Look at what Oot pulled off -

OoT has Ganondorf defeated, his entire castle destroyed. In one last effort of desperation, he transforms into his monstrous form, Ganon. No subtitle. Ganon. He knocks the Master Sword, what you know you MUST HAVE to defeat him, away from you. And you're forced to go toe-to-toe with this massive beast that you can't possibly beat. An incredibly fitting soundtrack follows this - I don't have to link to it, because everyone has heard it. The weather is terrible and dark, you're constantly being trampled by Ganon, and Zelda screams in horror each time it happens because she's locked out and can't do a single thing about it. You're constantly strapped for magic as you desperately try to make good use of the only thing that helps, the Light Arrows, which drain your magic an unbelievable amount.

MM is also a good example that I could outline, but I feel that OoT would hammer the point the best.

So what is my point? Yes, presentation and mood can do a lot. But it was proven with OoT and MM that you could have exactly that, on top of an exciting and challenging boss battle. Hell, MM is probably MORE challenging that OoT's, but it retains an incredibly strange and foreboding mood as Majora transforms into an even more demonic and sadistic form throughout the battle.

So having a good mood/atmosphere shouldn't give WW brownie points for some reason. Atmosphere/mood should be a given in a Zelda final battle, not something on its own to praise, because nearly ALL of the 3D titles, and even some of the 2D ones, pull it off nicely. It needs to be judged also on the merits of challenge and design, which WW unfortunately fails on both fronts with.

I honestly found Majora one of the easiest final bosses... In fact, out of the 3d titles, MM has the easiest final boss (but the overall game is the hardest) - that's just my opinion anyway

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

I honestly found Majora one of the easiest final bosses... In fact, out of the 3d titles, MM has the easiest final boss (but the overall game is the hardest) - that's just my opinion anyway

That's pretty interesting. I had a great deal of trouble with Majora when I tried to beat it normally on my first few playthroughs many years ago. Unfortunately, I haven't beaten it the "normal" way since then, because when I play through MM on emulators and such I always 100% and get the Fierce Deity mask, which of course makes the battle pathetically easy. So I have no recent experience with the true difficulty of Majora. I do, however, remember the battle with Ganondorf in WW well enough to say that, personally, I found it easier than Majora from my experiences.

On top of that, OoT's boss battle was painfully easy and pretty repetitive and boring. Most of the praise it gets is for the atmosphere.

Yeah, this is where we enter the "it's my opinion" area of the debate, which can't be refuted very well no matter what. I guess a more convincing argument would just be to compare the mechanics of the battles themselves, instead of personalized opinions on difficulty, which is what I originally did.

 

[Tetra's Wink]

That's pretty interesting. I had a great deal of trouble with Majora when I tried to beat it normally on my first few playthroughs many years ago. Unfortunately, I haven't beaten it the "normal" way since then, because when I play through MM on emulators and such I always 100% and get the Fierce Deity mask, which of course makes the battle pathetically easy. So I have no recent experience with the true difficulty of Majora. I do, however, remember the battle with Ganondorf in WW well enough to say that, personally, I found it easier than Majora from my experiences.

I haven't actually ever gotten the fierce diety mask, but yes, I've heard it makes it even easier.

Different strokes for different folks I guess, in that we can all differ in what we find hard and easy. The first phase of Majora (the mask) I'd say was the hardest of the three (although not much of a challenge still). I was mainly referring to the second and third phases regarding finding the battle easy.

 

[DarkestLink]

No problem with the mirror shield and I'm glad they made him harder to parry, but the fight just doesn't feel fluid. It looks and feels awkward.

 

[JuicieJ]

Mood and presentation is everything!

No, it's only part of the equation. If something has great presentation, but lacks substance, then it's only halfway fulfilling. This perfectly describes the Ganondorf fight in The Wind Waker, with its remarkably impressive and over-the-top style, but one-dimensional and overly-easy gameplay. It's a very poor boss fight from a gameplay perspective, making it half-baked.

OoT has Ganondorf defeated, his entire castle destroyed. In one last effort of desperation, he transforms into his monstrous form, Ganon. No subtitle. Ganon. He knocks the Master Sword, what you know you MUST HAVE to defeat him, away from you. And you're forced to go toe-to-toe with this massive beast that you can't possibly beat. An incredibly fitting soundtrack follows this - I don't have to link to it, because everyone has heard it. The weather is terrible and dark, you're constantly being trampled by Ganon, and Zelda screams in horror each time it happens because she's locked out and can't do a single thing about it. You're constantly strapped for magic as you desperately try to make good use of the only thing that helps, the Light Arrows, which drain your magic an unbelievable amount.

OoT's final fight with Ganon is even more underwhelming from a gameplay standpoint. It's a repetitive "shoot him in the face, slash the tail" pattern that loops at a ridiculous frequency. It never ceases to baffle me how the thick rose-tinted glasses people wear for this game consistently blind people to this painfully obvious fact.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

OoT's final fight with Ganon is even more underwhelming from a gameplay standpoint. It's a repetitive "shoot him in the face, slash the tail" pattern that loops at a ridiculous frequency. It never ceases to baffle me how the thick rose-tinted glasses people wear for this game consistently blind people to this painfully obvious fact.

Keep in mind the competition, however. Unfortunately, many Zelda bosses fall into a rather predictable pattern... Even the ones that aren't final bosses. This is especially true with all the 3D games, none of the five being exempted. The battle also mixes things up by forcing you to experiment with different weaponry before re-obtaining the Master Sword, something that other 3D bosses lack, along with there being a much higher factor of skill and luck being involved when it comes to preserving your Light Arrow magic, hitting him spot on, and not wasting time getting to the tail, opposed to WW's wait and press A approach.

Rose-tinted glasses would be more relevant if I harped on about how OoT's atmosphere and final boss design hasn't been matched since, and will never be matched, which was never my point at all. MM provides the exact same strengths, with an arguably more challenging final encounter, as I previously said. SS has much better buildup, thanks in part to the down-ward spiral fight with Ghirahim and a lot of good dialogue. And I'm not challenging the idea that WW or TP also had good mood/atmosphere as well, with WW's being stated above, and TP having a rather neat fight with Possessed Zelda and Beast Ganon before the final fight. It's important to be objective, realize that all of the games have strengths and weaknesses, and not discredit or overblow some because of popular opinion/nostalgia.

 

[JuicieJ]

Unfortunately, many Zelda bosses fall into a rather predictable pattern... Even the ones that aren't final bosses. This is especially true with all the 3D games, none of the five being exempted.

I'm pretty sure Majora's Mask and Skyward Sword's bosses are remarkably diverse.

 

[Tetra's Wink]

I'm pretty sure Majora's Mask and Skyward Sword's bosses are remarkably diverse.

You raise a good point... thinking about it, every boss in SS is diverse (well, except for the one from the mining facility - there's always one eh?)