My Thoughts on the Triple-split Timeline Without It Being "what If?"

[Dragan3rd]

(Btw, if any of this is spam then, my apologies. Feel free to move or delete.)

Ever since the official timeline was released, I've been wholly against it. I can't stand the idea of a "what if?" timeline, it's just too ambiguous. What if Link died at the hands of the deku scrubs guarding Queen Ghoma? What if Link died when Ganondorf blasted him outside Hyrule Castle Town? What if Link died in Dampe's grave while trying to chase him for his treasure? What if his mother never made it to the Kokiri Forest with him before she died? We'd have hundreds if not thousands of timelines!!

Having said that though... I think I've found a way to explain a triple-split without using a "what-if" scenario, while also explaining the Song of Storms paradox. I'm kind of grasping at straws on this one, but it's the best I got lol.

Child Timeline

Created when Princess Zelda uses the Ocarina of Time, instead of the Master Sword, to send Link back to his childhood. It is in this timeline that Link warns Zelda and the Royal Family of Ganondorf's impending betrayal before leaving on his search for Navi. (MM-TP-FSA)

(Following OOT's ending, Ganondorf is present in Hyrule, trying to prove his loyalty to the Royal Family. The Ancient Sages are alive and well, since Ganondorf has not broken into the Sacred Realm. But, as a result of the ocarina's power, the Triforce in this timeline no longer exists within the Sacred Realm but within Ganondorf, Zelda, and Link unknowingly. This has to be the case because Ganondorf uses his Triforce of Power to prevent being executed in the events leading up to Twilight Princess.

Adult Timeline

Created when Princess Zelda uses the Ocarina of Time, as opposed to the Master Sword, to send Link back in time seven years. Hyrule is now without a destined hero to protect it when Ganondorf escapes from the Void of the Evil Realm. (TWW-PH-SP)

(Ganondorf is sealed in the Void of the Evil Realm, having kept his Triforce of Power. The Awakened Sages return to Hyrule to live their lives peacefully. However, to keep the seal on Ganondorf strong, two new sages are called upon to pray to the Goddesses so that the Master Sword will not lose its true power; these sages are Fado the Kokiri and Laruto the Zora. Zelda keeps her Triforce of Wisdom but Link loses his Triforce of Courage when he's sent back in time; the piece shatters and its shards are scattered across Hyrule.)

Hero Defeated Timeline

Created when Link traveled back in time after learning the Song of Storms from Guru-Guru, because the Link that teaches him the song cannot exist in the same timeline as the Link who did not. After completing half of the Spirit Temple and obtaining the Silver Gauntlets, he travels to the future never to return. (You don't need to return for anything else, technically.) Ganondorf, who has been searching for Zelda, finds the entrance to the Sacred Realm in the Temple of Time. He breaks into the Sacred Realm and steals the Triforce, but with the Hero of Time missing, it doesn't break apart and he inherits its full power, thus beginning the Imprisoning War. Link is presumed dead, killed at the hands of the Evil King. (ALTTP-ALBW-OOX-LA-TLOZ-AOL)

(Ganondorf is present in Hyrule, searching for Zelda. With this being a third, separate timeline he hasn't yet discovered the entrance to the Sacred Realm. The Ancient Sages are alive and well, perhaps these are the Seven Wise Men mentioned in ALTTP's backstory. Also, these ancient sages/wise men are perhaps the same sages seen in Twilight Princess, they all looked male as well. The Triforce is also still in the Sacred Realm, until eventually seized by Ganondorf.)

The only loop-hole I see with this idea is that if Link went back to the future as I explained, where is the Master Sword? It's present in ALTTP. The only explanation I can think of is that Link goes to the Sacred Realm when lifting the sword, but it stays where it is until he's an adult. That means that when Link leaves, the Master Sword stays. However, since evil ones may never touch it, it's obviously not in the pedestal which would enable Ganondorf to enter the Sacred Realm easily. And during the Imprisoning War, the Master Sword could also be returned to its pedestal and hidden in the lost woods.

Thoughts? Ideas? Better theories?

 

[Locke]

I like this. This is one of the few alternative theories that takes into account the differences between MS and OoT time travel.

The only loop-hole I see with this idea is that if Link went back to the future as I explained, where is the Master Sword? It's present in ALTTP. The only explanation I can think of is that Link goes to the Sacred Realm when lifting the sword, but it stays where it is until he's an adult. That means that when Link leaves, the Master Sword stays.

Yes I believe this is true.

There are a few other holes though. "He travels to the future never to return" doesn't make sense to me. He'd return at the point in time to which he traveled. That's how the MS works - it's a boat that moves up and down the river of time. He leaves port in the past and arrives in the future. So he would show up again in that timeline. Second, this is MS-travel we're talking about, which I think we've established doesn't inherently split the timeline. I get that you're claiming the Song of Storms paradox forces the timeline to split in that one instance, but there are other oddities to consider. Magic Beans for one. They aren't there in the future, then he goes to the past and plants them, and they're there when he returns to the future. Why didn't the timeline split there? If there's a timeline where Link learned the Song of Storms from Guru-Guru that's separate from the one in which he already knew it, then why isn't there a timeline where the bean plants aren't there that's separate from the one in which they are?

 

[Shamison]

(Btw, if any of this is spam then, my apologies. Feel free to move or delete.)

Ever since the official timeline was released, I've been wholly against it. I can't stand the idea of a "what if?" timeline, it's just too ambiguous. What if Link died at the hands of the deku scrubs guarding Queen Ghoma? What if Link died when Ganondorf blasted him outside Hyrule Castle Town? What if Link died in Dampe's grave while trying to chase him for his treasure? What if his mother never made it to the Kokiri Forest with him before she died? We'd have hundreds if not thousands of timelines!!

Having said that though... I think I've found a way to explain a triple-split without using a "what-if" scenario, while also explaining the Song of Storms paradox. I'm kind of grasping at straws on this one, but it's the best I got lol.

Child Timeline

Created when Princess Zelda uses the Ocarina of Time, instead of the Master Sword, to send Link back to his childhood. It is in this timeline that Link warns Zelda and the Royal Family of Ganondorf's impending betrayal before leaving on his search for Navi. (MM-TP-FSA)

(Following OOT's ending, Ganondorf is present in Hyrule, trying to prove his loyalty to the Royal Family. The Ancient Sages are alive and well, since Ganondorf has not broken into the Sacred Realm. But, as a result of the ocarina's power, the Triforce in this timeline no longer exists within the Sacred Realm but within Ganondorf, Zelda, and Link unknowingly. This has to be the case because Ganondorf uses his Triforce of Power to prevent being executed in the events leading up to Twilight Princess.

Adult Timeline

Created when Princess Zelda uses the Ocarina of Time, as opposed to the Master Sword, to send Link back in time seven years. Hyrule is now without a destined hero to protect it when Ganondorf escapes from the Void of the Evil Realm. (TWW-PH-SP)

(Ganondorf is sealed in the Void of the Evil Realm, having kept his Triforce of Power. The Awakened Sages return to Hyrule to live their lives peacefully. However, to keep the seal on Ganondorf strong, two new sages are called upon to pray to the Goddesses so that the Master Sword will not lose its true power; these sages are Fado the Kokiri and Laruto the Zora. Zelda keeps her Triforce of Wisdom but Link loses his Triforce of Courage when he's sent back in time; the piece shatters and its shards are scattered across Hyrule.)

Hero Defeated Timeline

Created when Link traveled back in time after learning the Song of Storms from Guru-Guru, because the Link that teaches him the song cannot exist in the same timeline as the Link who did not. After completing half of the Spirit Temple and obtaining the Silver Gauntlets, he travels to the future never to return. (You don't need to return for anything else, technically.) Ganondorf, who has been searching for Zelda, finds the entrance to the Sacred Realm in the Temple of Time. He breaks into the Sacred Realm and steals the Triforce, but with the Hero of Time missing, it doesn't break apart and he inherits its full power, thus beginning the Imprisoning War. Link is presumed dead, killed at the hands of the Evil King. (ALTTP-ALBW-OOX-LA-TLOZ-AOL)

(Ganondorf is present in Hyrule, searching for Zelda. With this being a third, separate timeline he hasn't yet discovered the entrance to the Sacred Realm. The Ancient Sages are alive and well, perhaps these are the Seven Wise Men mentioned in ALTTP's backstory. Also, these ancient sages/wise men are perhaps the same sages seen in Twilight Princess, they all looked male as well. The Triforce is also still in the Sacred Realm, until eventually seized by Ganondorf.)

The only loop-hole I see with this idea is that if Link went back to the future as I explained, where is the Master Sword? It's present in ALTTP. The only explanation I can think of is that Link goes to the Sacred Realm when lifting the sword, but it stays where it is until he's an adult. That means that when Link leaves, the Master Sword stays. However, since evil ones may never touch it, it's obviously not in the pedestal which would enable Ganondorf to enter the Sacred Realm easily. And during the Imprisoning War, the Master Sword could also be returned to its pedestal and hidden in the lost woods.

Thoughts? Ideas? Better theories?

Really good I like this way better than the official and it actually still goes well with it.

 

[Justac00lguy]

I'm one of the people who supports the official Timeline. Of course I get the argument of: if this can happen, theoretically, it could happen at any time at any point in time creating endless worlds, so on and so on.

Truth is, this is the same case with our world. We live in our own separate world; however there can be variables, hypothetical variables, that lead to different worlds yet they are just that: "hypothetical". There could be millions, billions, no scratch that, infinite possibilities (multiverse theory). So if we put the Zelda universe into this equation then the same thing applies. There could be many, many different worlds that coexist with the universe we play within (LoZ universe). However, the point is that we only explore what Nintendo choose to show us.

The hypothetical Defeated Timeline where Link died was just an alternate outcome out of many more that could happen at any point in time. Though, Nintendo chose to show is this specific split because it was significant. Ocarina of Time is unquestionably the series' most esteemed title and that's the case with its story too. The story within this game, while cliché and quite basic, is still the most crucial tale in the series. It's the birth of the main villain we see today, it's Hyrule's prime moment and it's most devastating. It's also where the Timeline splits. So where better to make an alternative timeline than within this game. It also shows is that evil can conquer good, which is key in my opinion.

 

[Cero]

The hypothetical Defeated Timeline where Link died was just an alternate outcome out of many more that could happen at any point in time. Though, Nintendo chose to show is this specific split because it was significant.

This. I'm in the same camp as you. I think every Zelda title has a "fallen hero" branch, but in all the others a new hero never arose making them irrelevant to the timelines. OoT could be the only legend that Link failing creates a world where a hero can return or rise up to take on the evil that prevailed, and thus the only one worth detailing with a string of games. For example, if Link dies in Skyward Sword, the rebirth curse would have never been placed by Demise (meaning Link would never be reincarnated and Demise could do what he pleased).

Personally I am happy with this because it means Nintendo has left their options open, which translates into more room for more titles.

I don't view the Fallen Timeline as a "what-if". Nintendo's mistake was making it a timeline instead of an alternate reality.

 

[Collbard]

Frankly, I hope that in the future more detail is given about the downfall timeline. While it probably isn't considered canon (or at least, it is probably pretty weak) the aLttP manual says that the master sword was forged during the imprisoning war. The exact text:

The people of Hyrule forged a sword resistant to magic which could repulse even powers granted by the Triforce. This mighty weapon became known as the blade of evil's bane, or the Master Sword. It was so powerful that only one who was pure of heart and strong of body could wield it. As the Seven Wise Men searched for a valiant person to take up the Master Sword, Ganon's evil army swarmed from the tainted Golden Land into Hyrule and attacked the castle. The wise men and the Knights of Hyrule combined forces to wage war on this evil horde.

Now, I don't recall particularly what was said about the Master Sword in the actual game, but to me, that doesn't sound like they ever actually found a hero to use the sword. Instead of confronting Ganon, they just sealed the Sacred Realm Again, we know that the Master Sword existed before this time, but is it possible that the Master Sword found in this timeline is different from other Master Swords? It is the only one that, to my knowledge, humans are able to upgrade. And, that would strangely fix the missing Master Sword problem in your theory.

 

[Fig]

I like how your theory is constructed even with the minor plotholes or loop-holes that might it have. Nonetheless, I personally don't see the official Zelda timeline as a timeline at all, but more of an explanation of the Zelda multiverse itself. I'm not good at explaining things, but I'm sure this video can help you understand why I think how the timeline is actually is.
[video=youtube;i1TSpfPFNlE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1TSpfPFNlE[/video]

 

[ihateghirahim]

I really liked this theory. I always hated the concept of split timelines, and I especially hated the "what-if" concept. Why get excited for ALBW if it canonically never occurred? I support theories like this. I feel like we grasp time travel and respecting the series better than the developers sometimes.

 

[ZeldafreakCJM]

I'm personally fond of the theory that the Triforce wish at the end of ALttP unknowingly brought OOT Link back to life, meaning OOT - ALttP was the original timeline but was split leading to a second spilt which in turn leads to both TP and WW.

 

[ApeironLight]

I used to advocate this exact same idea in the my own Timeline Theory, until a recent playthrough of OoT reminded me that you have to go back in time at least twice. Once to use the Song of Storms and get the Lens of Truth. You also have to go back in time again to get to the Spirit Temple. It is impossible to do both in the same trip since you have to get the Lens of Truth to reach the Spirit Temple and you can't reach the Spirit Temple as a Youth without warping.

 

[Collbard]

I'm personally fond of the theory that the Triforce wish at the end of ALttP unknowingly brought OOT Link back to life, meaning OOT - ALttP was the original timeline but was split leading to a second spilt which in turn leads to both TP and WW.

Huh. I find this extremely interesting. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that does anything to really confirm this idea, but if you have more info/thoughts on this, or if this has been discussed elsewhere, please let me know.

 

[Ocarina_Player]

It's not a "what if", it's the multiverse theory. LoZ makes use of several different time theories, the one that creates the three timelines is that every effect that results from an action is played out in its own universe. You see this a LOT in Star Trek. The reboot movie was based off this, and there is an episode where Worf accidentally flies through a tear in time and jumps through each universe, where there are sometimes subtle chages, sometimes huge ones. Technically there are uncountable Hyrules out there but the only ones we are concerned about are three: Hero leaves world, hero as a child, hero fails. If Zelda didn't send Link back we would only have two to deal with, but Zelda seems to be remarkably good at complicating the hell out of things.

Personally, I'm a-okay with the time line as is. I don't see how yours is different except for how the failed hero timeline comes into being.

 

[LadyRamkin]

I would like to point out that in the Hyrule Historia on the page before the "Official time line" It state's

"This chronicle merely collects information that is believed to be true at this time, and there are many obscured and unanswered secrets that still lie within the tale. as the stories and storytellers of Hyrule change, so, too, does its history. Hyrule's history is a continuously woven tapestry of events. changes that seem inconsequential, disregarded without even a shrug, could evolve at some point to hatch new legends and ,perhaps, change this tapestry of history itself"

which essentially means, that the "official time line" is nothing more than a fan theory, none of this nonsense is set in stone. They probably just made it up so that people would stop asking them about it. And the whole "hero is defeated" thing only exists because they couldn't think of a way to make it all fit.