General Zelda Is Ganondorf Too Plain?

[Justac00lguy]

Now first of all I just want to get out, I like Ganondorf, he is a great villain for the series, especially his roles in Ocarina of Time, The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.

However, we have certainly seen other villains act and generally be "different". Now whether different equates to better is another question, but this got me thinking; is Ganondorf too plain, maybe too cliché of a villain?

 

[Ventus]

I would call him a very clichéd villain. His motives as of Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past were chocked up to "I'm evil and want to take over the world for the sake of being evil". That's pretty flat reasoning, and it's also very underdeveloped. The same goes for the Oracles, Legend of Zelda, and Four Swords Adventures. His motive as of Twilight Princess was that of a revenge plot so to say, but it was still fleshed in (weak). His motive in The Wind Waker is still unclear to me, and TWW is where he shines as a villain in my opinion. I still don't know if he's evil for the sake of evil, or really reformed his ways and is a tragic anti-villain. ;p

So all in all, he's a very cliché villain, but he almost breaks this mold with Wind Waker.

 

[Salem]

Even if he's too plain, I don't think he was used to his full potential in the series to justify, it's usually him in the sidelines and someone else does the evil things and then he shows up at the end, although obviously this doesn't always happen.

I think the problem is he wasn't always given enough presence in the game before he Link faces him, an example of what I mean is in Portal, Bioshock, Banjo Kazooie where the villain is always there and sees all.

 

[A Link In Time]

I think the problem is he wasn't always given enough presence in the game before he Link faces him, an example of what I mean is in Portal, Bioshock, Banjo Kazooie where the villain is always there and sees all.

^I know a lot of people complain about Ganondorf being generic and overused, but there's a lot of untapped potential in his character. In games like Twilight Princess, his presence is known earlier, but the majority of his screen time is during the final battle. In others, like the original Legend of Zelda, he's frequently alluded to but not seen until the last dungeon. Only Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker treat him as the principle villain throughout, and he's more palpable and convincing because of it.

There's more to Ganondorf than a thirst for power. He's convincingly deceitful, earning the king's trust in Ocarina of Time before usurping the throne, and taking advantage of his execution in Twilight Princess, murdering a sage before being vanquished to the Twilight Realm and leading its inhabitants to believe he is a savior, a demi-god, per se, like Hernan Cortes in first meeting the Aztecs.

What I want to see is more cutscenes involving Ganondorf throughout the game as in OoT and TWW unraveling his persona and intentions. For example, rather than a brief introduction after the Arbiter's Grounds and a showdown at Hyrule Castle, Ganondorf's presence in Twilight Princess could have been reinforced through a depiction of his dealings in the Twilight Realm.

 

[Salem]

^I was thinking more like if Ganon for example has already conquered Hyrule, and your quest is to bring him down, and every now and then, specially after completing important parts of the game, you hear him talk and address you or the people of Hyrule directly, pretty anywhere in Hyrule, it helps if he offers a price on Link's head or something, maybe he taunts him every now and then...

 

[Mercedes]

I've just found he lacks depth as a character, and he's just not sinister enough to get by without it. He's just a quite normal villain, really, he's not good or bad, he's just a person to direct our hatred against for some generic evil activity going on that Link needs to thwart. I'd just like to see more development of him.

 

[Wolf Sage]

^I know a lot of people complain about Ganondorf being generic and overused, but there's a lot of untapped potential in his character. In games like Twilight Princess, his presence is known earlier, but the majority of his screen time is during the final battle. In others, like the original Legend of Zelda, he's frequently alluded to but not seen until the last dungeon. Only Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker treat him as the principle villain throughout, and he's more palpable and convincing because of it.

There's more to Ganondorf than a thirst for power. He's convincingly deceitful, earning the king's trust in Ocarina of Time before usurping the throne, and taking advantage of his execution in Twilight Princess, murdering a sage before being vanquished to the Twilight Realm and leading its inhabitants to believe he is a savior, a demi-god, per se, like Hernan Cortes in first meeting the Aztecs.

What I want to see is more cutscenes involving Ganondorf throughout the game as in OoT and TWW unraveling his persona and intentions. For example, rather than a brief introduction after the Arbiter's Grounds and a showdown at Hyrule Castle, Ganondorf's presence in Twilight Princess could have been reinforced through a depiction of his dealings in the Twilight Realm.

Whoa, Alit, you accidentally the whole thing. :yes:

---

I agree that he could really use more presence in the series; perhaps more screen time. A great way to this is to let the player in on what Ganondorf is up to at any given time--give us an active perspective into the destruction of a village and its citizens, instead of leaving us to simply hear of his exploits in hindsight. It is for this reason that I think Lord Ghirahim's character was handled quite well in that there were times where he could actively be seen causing turmoil and unrest (summoning a massive tornado, awakening Koloktos, trolling Link, etc. etc.). Ganondorf has always been the "working behind the scenes until the last minute" type, and I think that might have detracted certain crucial qualities from his character development. The Wind Waker, while not perfect, does appear to have boasted a fairly decent portrayal of Ganondorf...

 

[ihateghirahim]

Nah, he is awesome. He is simple, but that's okay. His depth comes from how he carries out his wicked desires. I think too often today people feel obligated to make a deep and complex villain. They don't put too much originality into it, and the result is a cliche of dark and miserable villains. It's nice to sit back and have a power-hungry villain. The fun is in the battles and puzzles, and Ganon need not be too deep. I have no desire for a really deep Ganon, and maybe it's time people broke the complex cliche and went back to some good old fashioned good vs. evil.

 

[nsanesk8er16]

ganondorfs alright but there are definitely better villains within video games such as sephiroth, diablo, kefka, liquid snake, etc. ganons good just nothing special

 

[r2d93]

Too plain? No. Cliched, yes.

I love good old Ganny but I agree he is a bit cliche. To me he represents pure evil and hate. While this makes him scary and a great villain, it's nothing that hasn't been done before.

That being said, we'd have to go on to say that that basic story of the whole series (Hero ventures out saves princes and/or world) is cliched as well. Why is it wrong for Ganny to be a bit cliche? it's familiar and comfortable in the best way possible. And it works very well for him so I see nothing wrong with it. LoZ can afford to have one great cliched villain.

(This only applies to OoT and TP by the way, I loved his anti-hero role in WW)

 

[bunny]

I've never seen Ganondorf as plain, and yeah, I do think he's cliche, but I don't think that makes him a bad villain.

Very few of the Zelda games have ever made Ganon's motives very clear; that is something I'd like to see be explained more in future Zelda games. One of the few games I can think of that shines at least a little light on his whole reason for what he does is the Wind Waker. At the end of the game, Ganondorf says something to Link and Zelda that I think most people just overlook.

My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose.

I think this quote explains his motives in Ocarina of Time. Remember in Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf was king of the Gerudo? Well, the Gerudo people weren't bad people, right? So let's just say for a second that Ganondorf started out like them. Put yourself in his position. During the day, the heat was unbearable, and during the night the cold was unbearable. The game never says it directly, but the Gerudo were suffering in their land. So Ganondorf was the king of a people who were dying due to something he couldn't control: the wind. I'd like to think that he started out with somewhat good intentions. Maybe he was trying to take over Hyrule so that he could relocate the Gerudo to some place better? That doesn't justify attacking the Hylians, but that would have at least given him a reason. My guess is that once he got his hands on the Triforce of Power, he got out of control and just wanted to take the land for himself. What started out as a king who was genuinely concerned for his people turned into a man who was power hungry.

But what about the Wind Waker?

What did the King of Hyrule say?... That the gods sealed Hyrule away? And they left behind people who would one day awaken Hyrule? How ridiculous... So many pathetic creatures, scattered across a handful of islands, drifting on this sea like fallen leaves on a forgotten pool... What they can possibly hope to achieve? Don't you see? All of you... Your gods destroyed you!

Sooo, I think it's pretty obvious here that Ganondorf really didn't like the new Hyrule. To be honest, I can't say I blame him. I mean, practically 97% of what used to be there is covered in water. I think his motives from the end of OoT carry over to TWW, though. He's been sealed in the Sacred Realm for who knows how long, so he's clearly going to be angry. Then when he finally gets out, the land he pretty much had control of is gone, which only made him angrier. Ganondorf fully intended on bringing the old Hyrule back, but he either didn't realize that it would completely destroy people's way of life, or he just didn't care. I think it was the latter; he had become corrupt. He wanted power again, and he was willing to kill Link and Zelda to get it.

As for his motives in the other Zelda titles... I honestly don't know. It was pretty much the classic bad guy vs. good guy scenario, which was fine for the time. Nintendo's obviously been developing the stories in each game more and more. I'm hoping we'll get to see a more developed Ganondorf within the next few titles.

Well, that's just my two cents. I'm not a theoist or anything, so I'm sure I messed up a few things. Yay for onions. <3

 

[Mangachick14]

Ganondorf's motives aren't usually explained very well, aside from the Wind Waker, so it almost seems like the only thing he's after simply power just because he's evil and stuff. I'd personally like to see his back story. The 'why' to his evilness. WW touched upon this, as others have said, but most of the time Ganondorf's just been generically evil with no real motivation. Also, much like Zelda in some of the games, we don't really see him that much. How am I supposed to be threatened by someone who I've never seen? That was something I quite liked about Ghirahim (Besides his fabulousness). It actually felt like he was after what I was after because he kept coming back and finding me. Now, I don't mean that Ganondorf should become the boss after every dungeon, but he should pop up every once and a while to remind us what we'll eventually have to go up against.

 

[Random Person]

The key word here is too. Is the G-man too plain? And I would have to say no. Ganondorf is indeed cliche in just about every form. He conquers Hyrule because he's power hungry and evil. Even in Wind Waker where he exposes his reasons for doing what he does, it's not complex at all. Jealousy. But despite this one dimensional Personality, I never felt that it took away from the role of a villain because it fits the environment well. The world of Zelda is a classic boy to knight tale. Link is the traditional boy having a modest life and being thrust into danger. Zelda is the traditional princess whose super important but looks as gentle as a flower. And Ganondorf is the traditional villain who is evil to be evil. Is it deep? No, but it works with what the game is presenting.

Now, I'm not saying that a less cliche villain would be worse for the series; if done correctly, it could be an awesome idea *CoughMajoraCough* but I feel that some of the villains who tried to be deep can't really measure up to the G-man as they were being less cliche just for the sake of being less cliche. Zant started off clichely awesome, but then went crazy to try to make himself deep which I felt really took away from his character. And I feel Ghirahim, the most distinct of villains, epitome of unnecessary Personality complexity, trying to be psychotic and "over the top" because it was different. The point I'm trying to make is that it's better to be appropriately cliche then to try to force being deep. Ganondorf may be cliche, but he's in no way too cliche.