GX Timeline Theory

[Garo]

NOTICE: The below timeline has been modified and updated as a result of changes occurring throughout the thread below it. I highly suggest you read through the thread in its entirety before commenting on the updated or original timeline.

The updated timeline:

....................../-- WW/PH -- ST
TMC -- SS -- OoT
......................\MM -- TP -- FS/FSA -- ALttP/OoX/LA -- LoZ/AoL

Everything below this line is the original thread.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Alright, I've been working on this theory for a while - it has a few holes, but so does every timeline, and I find it highly unlikely that we'll ever have all the pieces necessary to piece the full thing together. Before I outline my theory, however, I need to state a few assumptions that led to my theory.

1. The events of the Imprisoning War were fated to happen.
2. Ganon can only be killed by the Master Sword or Silver Arrows.
3. There have been multiple Ganons throughout the timeline.

Now, the first assumption is based on Twilight Princess. Given its revelation that Ganondorf was to be executed by the Sages, yet was unable to be executed to his possession of the Triforce of Power "by some divine prank", I surmised that the "divine prank" was actually that the Imprisoning War's events - namely its distribution of the parts of the Triforce - were fated to happen, and that by sending Link back in time to childhood, Zelda was disrupting fate. Thus, the Triforce/the gods "course corrected" and distributed the Triforce anyway.

The second assumption is pretty generally accepted. Ganon's death at the end of The Legend of Zelda has been confirmed by his followers' attempts to resurrect him in The Adventure of Link, and since he is defeated by the same method in A Link to the Past (Silver Arrows) it can be assumed that Silver Arrows do kill Ganon. The Master Sword can kill him as well, but it takes a full impalement to do so. In Ocarina of Time, rather than leaving the blade within the defeated Ganon, Link removed it to give the Sages an opening to imprison him. In Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, however, the blade remains, thus killing him.

The multiple Ganons is also generally accepted (I believe) but is also supported by Four Swords Adventures. An NPC (I do not remember which, I haven't played it in some time) has knowledge of Ganon's past misdoings, but also references the Ganon within FSA as being a desert nomad cast out of the Gerudo tribe. Not only does this indicate a new Ganon, but this new Ganon's past also slightly differs from the original Ganon's past. Thus, there are multiple Ganons throughout the series.

And one clarification: rather than distinguish between Ganon and Ganondorf, I simply use the term Ganon. In most every case the two occur in the same game, so I didn't differentiate to minimize confusion.

So, without further ado, my timeline.

..............(adult)/ ALttP -- FS/FSA -- TLOZ/TAOL -- OoS/OoA/LA -- TWW/PH -- ST
MC -- SS -- OoT
..............(child)\ MM -- TP

Alright, so let's trace the history here.

Since we know Skyward Sword is about the creation of the Master Sword, we can assume that Ganon did not factor at all in the history of Hyrule up until after Skyward Sword. With this in mind, I place the Minish Cap as the very first game. There are no references to Ganon, and only vague references to a "Triforce". It also serves as the origin story for Vaati and the Four Sword. Interestingly, the Picori Sword serves a far greater purpose than the Four Sword ever did to the Hyrule citizens. The Picori Sword is a ceremonial sword that they proudly display at their sword tournament. After the events of the game, however, they tend to leave their prized blades in special shrines specifically for the blade to protect them from interlopers. This, I believe, is the practice that led to the storing of the Master Sword within the Pedestal of Time, and as such a practice started after the events of Minish Cap, it gets placed first.

Now, since Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures are direct sequels, and Ganon features in Four Swords Adventures, they cannot follow The Minish Cap directly. Thus, Skyward Sword takes the second slot, and Ocarina right after it. Then the timeline split occurs and we have the adult and child timelines.

Let's focus on the Child timeline. Link returns to childhood and goes off in search of Navi, leading to the events of Majora's Mask - it is a direct sequel. In his absence, the events of the Imprisoning War are changed massively, and Ganon ends up being sentenced to death by the sages. This is where the Ganon of Twilight Princess arises. The Triforce of Power is gifted to Ganon by divine fate, and the events of Twilight Princess transpire. Thus, Twilight Princess takes place in Hyrule sometime after Majora's Mask.

Ganon in Twilight Princess is completely killed. He is not imprisoned or sealed in another realm, but killed. This ends the Child Timeline.

So now let's look at the Adult Timeline. Following the Imprisoning War, Ganon - still holding the Triforce of Power - is sealed within the Sacred Realm. This is where A Link to the Past occurs, as it occurs with Ganon in the Sacred Realm and acting through the proxy wizard Aganhim in the normal realm. Here, Ganon is killed with Silver Arrows - a full death.

Enter Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures. Vaati is accidentally released from the Four Sword and wreaks havoc. He is eventually resealed, but in Four Swords Adventures is manipulated by Ganon. This Ganon, however, is a new Ganon, as discussed above, whose backstory is different from the OoT Ganon. This Ganon is sealed within the Four Sword.

Sometime after Four Swords Adventures - a long time, too, based on the level of decay in Hyrule between A Link to the Past and The Legend of Zelda - Ganon breaks free of the Four Sword and returns to steal the Triforce of Wisdom from Hyrule. Enter The Legend of Zelda. Here, once more, he is defeated by the Silver Arrows. Enter The Adventure of Link, where Ganon's puppet, Shadow Link (created by the Mirror that Ganon obtained within Four Swords Adventures, indicating that the Ganon of TLOZ/TAOL is the Ganon of FSA), tries to resurrect Ganon and fails.

After the Legend of Zelda, the Triforce is whole again. Thus, Link is able to go and investigate the place where the Triforce is kept, thus falling in Holodrum/Labrynna, setting the Oracle games into motion. During the course of those games, Twinrova resurrects Ganon successfully, but he is then defeated by Link. However, he was not defeated with the Master Sword (which I maintain is a cursory "Level 3 Sword" addition into those games, and not a canonical appearance by the famed blade, since it was not drawn from a Pedestal of Time) nor Silver Arrows, and thus was only banished, not killed.

Link floats away on a raft after the events of the Oracle games, and Link's Awakening takes place. After Link's Awakening, the Great Flood occurs, and The Wind Waker takes place, with the resurrected Ganon from the Oracle games (originally from FSA) returning to raise Hyrule to the surface. He is killed here by the Master Sword, wielded by a new Link, as Hyrule is forever drowned beneath the sea. Following Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks take place, rounding out the series and completing my timeline.

Thoughts, criticisms, corrections, or - if I may be so bold - compliments are welcomed.

 

[425]

I've got just one of criticism:

First of all, the introduction of Wind Waker STRONGLY suggests that it is a direct sequel to the adult ending of OoT. The wording makes it sound like there are no Link's and no Ganon(dorf)'s between the two, and the description of events very obviously fits the events of OoT.

 

[Slash Dart]

There's no way ALttP can come before TWW. At the end of ALttP it said the Master Sword sleeps again FOREVER but yet it is used again in TWW which is a huge contradiction I think. Plus, the Master Sword is still in the lost woods or "secret grove" during ALttP but in TWW it's in Hyrule Castle.

 

[Mrwarfishy]

the windwaker is a sequel to majoras mask remember in the legend when it says the hero of time left...

and garo thats one of the worst theories i heard(not trying to be mean). how could spirit tracks be BEFORE oot they had TRAINS oot didnt... and if you ask me there is only one timeline(you just take the child games and put them before the adult games after all he was a child before a adult right)

 

[JuicieJ]

the windwaker is a sequel to majoras mask remember in the legend when it says the hero of time left...

WW is a sequel to the time Link left behind in OoT. TP is a sequel to MM. WW takes place on the AT, not the CT.

In ALttP, Link is a descendant of one of the Knights of Hyrule in the Seal War. Link went back to his own time at the end of OoT, causing ALttP to not be able to take place on the AT. WW was the retcon for ALttP taking place on the AT, as Nintendo decided that OoT was no longer the Seal War, as there were too many contradictions to accurately say it was so. It is evidenced by how FSA was originally going to be the Seal War. ALttP no longer has a place on the AT, as it can't take place before or after WW. In fact, none of the original games can go on the AT due to WW. The in-game information makes it impossible. (Such as nothing happening in-between OoT and WW until Ganon broke out.) However, with the information we have now, the original games also can't be accurately placed anywhere. Same with the FSS. No combination of all the games as of now can be accurate. ALttP has no possible place but after ALttP (from what I've observed using in-game information for where it can't go), but Ganondorf dying in TP is a contradiction. Then again, so was Ganondorf dying at the end of ALttP with it being a prequel to LoZ and AoL. But, since the ToP is still out there, he can still come back somehow. I don't use that as an official explanation, but I do acknowledge it. The only thing official we can say as of now, though, is this:

............/WW/PH--ST
SS--OoT
............\MM--TP


From what I've observed, though, (not saying I'm Nintendo and that I'm right) with the information we have now (key words), this can unofficially said:

............/WW/PH--ST
SS--OoT
..........\MM--TP__ALttP/(OoX)/LA--LoZ/AoL


(OoX in parentheses as that's where it's most logical imo, but kind of sketchy.) Now, the FSS can't be placed anywhere without major contradiction, and may just be a separate legend. I don't feel like getting into that, though, as it's quite lengthy. I will say, though, that I see no way possible that MC can take place before OoT. There's really no evidence for it. The only real-ish "argument" I've seen is the "it's where Link got his hat" thing. But, that's not true. Ezlo was his hat in the game, as that's what Nintendo wanted to do. Ezlo gave him a hat at the end as a memento. As a sentimental thing. And I do believe that Aonuma (or someone official) said that it isn't the origin of Link's hat. But, anyway...

............/WW/PH--ST
SS--OoT
............\MM--TP__ALttP/(OoX)/LA--LoZ/AoL

(?)MC--FS/FSA


This doesn't really matter, but since the split wasn't created until Link went back to his own time, the split timeline can be looked at like this:

SS--OoT--WW/PH--ST
............\MM--TP


Again, this is just what I've observed and isn't by any means official. I respect opinion and am not saying this is what you have to believe.

 

[Slash Dart]

how could spirit tracks be BEFORE oot they had TRAINS oot didnt... and if you ask me there is only one timeline(you just take the child games and put them before the adult games after all he was a child before a adult right)

He didn't put ST before OOT. He put SS (Skyward Sword) before OOT.

 

[Locke]

I'll just address a few minor things for now.

-What do you make of the Palace of the Four Sword in the GBA version of LttP? The Four Sword is broken inside the Sacred Realm. That only makes sense after FS/FSA, not before.

-Why is Link trusted to enter the Triforce room in OoX?

-Ganon is mindless in OoX, but the opposite is true in WW.

-How did the Triforce split before WW? (that's sort of a major one, looking at WW's backstory)

 

[DFVI]

I wouldnt place MC first in the timeline after what we know about Skyward Sword. In fact, i think Minish Cap could take place in the New Hyrule of PH and ST, and "the force" could only be new name of the triforce, maybe because the legend slowly began to be forgotten by the people, also, there are not many races in MC (the ones from OOT time)

 

[Garo]

Alright, going to address all comments in one large lump post.

There's no way ALttP can come before TWW. At the end of ALttP it said the Master Sword sleeps again FOREVER but yet it is used again in TWW which is a huge contradiction I think. Plus, the Master Sword is still in the lost woods or "secret grove" during ALttP but in TWW it's in Hyrule Castle.

I take that line with a grain of salt, as Aonuma has said numerous times to avoid statements that create any sort of finality and certainty beyond direct sequels; and I think that forcing any games that they want to place after A Link to the Past to exclude the Master Sword because of a haphazard statement they made in the early 90s is exactly the kind of thing that Aonuma does not like. As for the location of the Master Sword, the Master Sword was never in Hyrule Castle except in Wind Waker; no matter what you place before it, it has to be moved to the Castle at some point. Given Wind Waker's backstory of Ganon amassing an army in Hyrule, I would surmise that it was moved to protect it from the forces of evil, so that when a Hero arrived to wield it, it could be used to kill Ganon. Thus they moved it to the castle, but no Hero came, flood, and then Wind Waker's story.

-What do you make of the Palace of the Four Sword in the GBA version of LttP? The Four Sword is broken inside the Sacred Realm. That only makes sense after FS/FSA, not before.

-Why is Link trusted to enter the Triforce room in OoX?

-Ganon is mindless in OoX, but the opposite is true in WW.

-How did the Triforce split before WW? (that's sort of a major one, looking at WW's backstory)

-I don't consider the GBA Link to the Past the canon version, and rather defer to the original SNES version (which I am so glad I saved. ^^)
-I'm not sure why Link would be trusted; that's one of the holes. I would hazard a guess that the Link we see there is trusted mostly due to the Triforce mark on his hand that Impa/Veran points out in the beginning of Ages. Again though, it's a hole.
-I think that Ganon's mindless state is mostly due to a revival that did not go as planned. Since he was only banished at the end of the Oracles and not killed again, he has time to regain power, and in this case, sanity, before he resurfaces. Given that Ganon has been imprisoned and banished a few times, and yet still manages to escape some hundreds of years later, is likely that he has to recuperate in this way after every banishment/imprisonment.
-This is another hole. The events of pre-Wind Waker Hyrule are so vaguely chronicled. I personally think that it was another act of the gods or fate; Ganon was meant to have the Triforce of Power, just as Zelda was meant to have the Triforce of Wisdom and Link was meant to have the Triforce of Courage. I really think that a full game can be set in Wind Waker's backstory (and would absolutely love to see one).

In ALttP, Link is a descendant of one of the Knights of Hyrule in the Seal War. Link went back to his own time at the end of OoT, causing ALttP to not be able to take place on the AT. WW was the retcon for ALttP taking place on the AT, as Nintendo decided that OoT was no longer the Seal War, as there were too many contradictions to accurately say it was so. It is evidenced by how FSA was originally going to be the Seal War. ALttP no longer has a place on the AT, as it can't take place before or after WW. In fact, none of the original games can go on the AT due to WW. The in-game information makes it impossible. (Such as nothing happening in-between OoT and WW until Ganon broke out.) However, with the information we have now, the original games also can't be accurately placed anywhere. Same with the FSS. No combination of all the games as of now can be accurate. ALttP has no possible place but after ALttP (from what I've observed using in-game information for where it can't go), but Ganondorf dying in TP is a contradiction. Then again, so was Ganondorf dying at the end of ALttP with it being a prequel to LoZ and AoL. But, since the ToP is still out there, he can still come back somehow. I don't use that as an official explanation, but I do acknowledge it.

This is certainly the biggest mess of the timeline. I assume when you say Seal War, you are referring to the literally translated Japanese, which corresponds to what NoA calls the Imprisonment War? If so, then I don't remember Nintendo saying that OoT wasn't the Seal War; I thought that was accepted. And if it isn't, then I assume we have yet to actually see the Seal War. In which case the Timeline is going to be practically impossible to construct.

I think Twilight Princess is what really screwed things up. Ganon ostensibly dying is what really complicates things. Given that A Link to the Past has Ganon in the Sacred Realm, which he turned into the Dark World, I don't think it can occur anywhere but immediately after Ocarina of Time in either of the timelines (Majora's Mask excepted, as that doesn't take place in Hyrule). But, since Twilight Princess shows Ganon being executed (though it fails), it logically follows that Ganon is not in the Sacred Realm/Dark World in the child timeline immediately after OoT. So that reasoning led me to place it in the adult timeline.

It isn't there because it belongs there, it's there mostly because it is the only logical place to place it as far as I see things.

I will say, though, that I see no way possible that MC can take place before OoT. There's really no evidence for it. The only real-ish "argument" I've seen is the "it's where Link got his hat" thing. But, that's not true. Ezlo was his hat in the game, as that's what Nintendo wanted to do. Ezlo gave him a hat at the end as a memento. As a sentimental thing. And I do believe that Aonuma (or someone official) said that it isn't the origin of Link's hat. But, anyway...

There isn't much to confirm Minish Cap taking place before anything, but nor is there much to place it after. It honestly would fit wonderfully in a sort of "side legend" continuum, were it not for Ganon's random appearance in Four Swords Adventures. Given all of that, I placed it before everything. It won't complicate things and force me to find a place to stick it when Ganon isn't interfering, and I think that it fits in a pre-Master Sword Hyrule given the incredibly ceremonial treatment of the Picori Sword, which would certainly be dwarfed in importance by the Master Sword, were it present.


I will say, the more I think about my Timeline, the flimsier it gets. I should probably do another run through of the series to make sure I have the most accurate memory when it comes to these things, but regardless, I like the way I have it structured now; it makes sense to me, at least. I do appreciate all the comments, though, as I love theorycrafting. It's why I loved Lost so much back in the day. (Still do. Loved the ending.)

 

[Locke]

-This is another hole. The events of pre-Wind Waker Hyrule are so vaguely chronicled. I personally think that it was another act of the gods or fate; Ganon was meant to have the Triforce of Power, just as Zelda was meant to have the Triforce of Wisdom and Link was meant to have the Triforce of Courage. I really think that a full game can be set in Wind Waker's backstory (and would absolutely love to see one).

I'm very impressed with how well you explained yourself, even with the things I disagree with. Now I'll focus on the larger issue, stemming from your response to the last point in my previous post. The events of pre-Wind Waker Hyrule are quite explicitly chronicled. While it leaves out irrelevant details, both the intro and what Daphnes tells you are exactly what happens in OoT. They even feature the Hero of Time, which is a title specific to the one prophecy that was fulfilled in OoT. Daphnes says he left through the flow of time, which we know is because Zelda returned him to his childhood at the end of OoT. It also explains why the ToC was broken, which was why I asked that question. As you're refreshing your memory of the series, I suggest paying close attention to WW's intro and all Daphnes dialog.

 

[Garo]

I'm very impressed with how well you explained yourself, even with the things I disagree with. Now I'll focus on the larger issue, stemming from your response to the last point in my previous post. The events of pre-Wind Waker Hyrule are quite explicitly chronicled. While it leaves out irrelevant details, both the intro and what Daphnes tells you are exactly what happens in OoT. They even feature the Hero of Time, which is a title specific to the one prophecy that was fulfilled in OoT. Daphnes says he left through the flow of time, which we know is because Zelda returned him to his childhood at the end of OoT. It also explains why the ToC was broken, which was why I asked that question. As you're refreshing your memory of the series, I suggest paying close attention to WW's intro and all Daphnes dialog.

You know, I always - always - forget about that part of Wind Waker where you have to collect the Triforce fragments, mostly because that part of the game is pure tedium and I *like* to forget about it.. Now that I do remember it, I seem to remember it being broken when the Hero of Time vanished from Hyrule (which, assuming WW's placement in the Adult Timeline, is when Zelda sent Link back)? If that's the case, then I guess it sorta detonates a nice little mine in the middle of my theory up there.

If that's the case, then it reopens the A Link to the Past / Twilight Princess debacle. TP has to follow the events of Ocarina of Time before any other events in Hyrule can occur, but Ganondorf ostensibly dies... unless we put Four Swords/FSA there? The new Ganon in FSA becomes the Ganon in A Link to the Past... especially since he isn't seen in Ganondorf form in any of those games. So, something like this?

MC -- SS -- OoT -- WW/PH -- ST
.......................\MM -- TP -- FS/FSA -- ALttP

Needs work for sure, but it seems more sound at first glance than my above theory did, and certainly seems more sound now than my above theory does now.

 

[JuicieJ]

MC -- SS -- OoT -- WW/PH -- ST
.......................\MM -- TP -- FS/FSA -- ALttP

Needs work for sure, but it seems more sound at first glance than my above theory did, and certainly seems more sound now than my above theory does now.

Pretty much correct, save MC. I'm curious as to why you put it there.

 

[DuckNoises]

You know, I always - always - forget about that part of Wind Waker where you have to collect the Triforce fragments, mostly because that part of the game is pure tedium and I *like* to forget about it.. Now that I do remember it, I seem to remember it being broken when the Hero of Time vanished from Hyrule (which, assuming WW's placement in the Adult Timeline, is when Zelda sent Link back)? If that's the case, then I guess it sorta detonates a nice little mine in the middle of my theory up there.

Yes, that's correct. The moment where the Triforce seems to break is when Zelda sent the Hero of Time back to his childhood, and the Triforce was thrown out of balance and had to compensate.

If that's the case, then it reopens the A Link to the Past / Twilight Princess debacle. TP has to follow the events of Ocarina of Time before any other events in Hyrule can occur, but Ganondorf ostensibly dies... unless we put Four Swords/FSA there? The new Ganon in FSA becomes the Ganon in A Link to the Past... especially since he isn't seen in Ganondorf form in any of those games. So, something like this?

That FSA placement allows for there to be a new Ganondorf if one subscribes to that theory, but I don't see it as necessary to claim that it's necessarily a different Ganondorf for that placement. I share that placement myself, and I personally think that Ganondorf doesn't die at the end of TP; you can look at long, lengthy discussion of that in this thread:
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?12544-The-Multiple-Deaths-of-Ganondorf!

MC -- SS -- OoT -- WW/PH -- ST
.......................\MM -- TP -- FS/FSA -- ALttP

Needs work for sure, but it seems more sound at first glance than my above theory did, and certainly seems more sound now than my above theory does now.

This is starting to look a little like my timeline. There is still the matter of the Seal War and how that coincides with the FS Saga, which is worth a look at. If you can find MrMosley's old article on the Seal War, that's a good start.

 

[Garo]

Alright, I just read MrMosley's Seal War article, and I find myself mostly agreeing with the timeline proposed at the end with the exception of the placement of the Oracle games. I recently finished the linked Oracle games, and Link definitely sails away on a raft, which suggests to me that the Oracle games have to directly precede Link's Awakening. Also, the end of A Link to the Past directly ties into the Oracle games - the Triforce is whole, Link is a hero and thus would be trusted to guard the Triforce, leading into the intro to the Oracle games.

So:

......................./ -- WW/PH -- ST
MC -- SS -- OoT
.......................\ MM -- TP -- FS/FSA -- ALttP/OoX/LA -- LoZ/AoL

The one thing I don't understand is when/how the Seal War is meant to take place. Since apparently OoT isn't the Seal War, which if I understand correctly is a conclusion reached solely due to Wind Waker and Twilight Princess taking place as the first Hyrule events on the Child and Adult timeline and not based on inconsistencies with the Seal War's story and OoT's story, wouldn't a Seal War game essentially be the same story as OoT? And would this game come between FS and LttP or between TP and FS?

 

[Slash Dart]

]I think that forcing any games that they want to place after A Link to the Past to exclude the Master Sword because of a haphazard statement they made in the early 90s is exactly the kind of thing that Aonuma does not like.

Nintendo or Aonuma has not confirmed any sequels that take place after ALttP that used the Master Sword again. The only game that could take place after ALttP to use the Master Sword again is the TWW but there's a couple of flaws. Now the reason why some people would say ALttP takes place between OoT and TWW (at least to my knowledge) is that they believe that when the seven sages sealed Ganon in the evil realm that was the imprisoning war that is talked about in LttP's backstory, but even that is not officially confirmed and I don't believe it to be the imprisoning war to be honest because for OoT to be the imprisoning war, Ganondorf would have to remain imprisoned in the evil realm until the events of ALttP, and yet he is clearly released and killed in the events before and during TWW. Also, don't forget when Ganondorf was sealed in the evil realm he still retained the Triforce of Power and in TWW he still has the Triforce of Power. In ALttP, he has the full Triforce but he was also killed at the end, not sealed. So clearly, ALttP cannot take place between OoT and TWW.

So, as of right now the Master Sword does sleep again FOREVER at the end of ALttP.