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Ghirahim in Skyward Sword put an end to my playing.

Lozjam

A Cool, Cool Mountain
Joined
May 24, 2015
Fis comments were deliberate and instrumental in her character development. She as a goddess did not look at humans with much praise so for her we were oblivious to most obvious things. Even link reacts to her condescension often. In the end its all the more meaningful when she realizes she was wrong. Its a shame some gamers are too suck to even realizing the subtleties of this beautiful arc. It went over the head of a lot of people.



The fact that it did work really well shows you're wrong. If you cant control SS properly its all on you, i had no issues, and a lot of gamers didnt either. I do see a lot of whining from gamers who dont want to out effort in mastering new controls and its just easy to complain. SS controls are some of the smoothest ive ever experienced.
That "beautiful arc" is still the biggest thing wrong with the game, and it could have been communicated much more effectively.

Fi held your hand throughout a good solid half of the game. Interrupting the game for information that is already conveyed to the player, and even going so far as to ruining the puzzles in the first three dungeons.

Fi's personality would have worked if we saw her much less. Interactions with people and other objects, and story relevant points would have been fine. But it disrupted the gameplay big time. For example, when Link reaches half a heart, there is absolutely no characterization in Fi telling Link that he has half a heart. It is quite annoying to have the beeping of Fi, and the beeping of the heart meter to play off of each other. And Fi greatly disrupted dungeon gameplay by explaining the dungeons puzzle to you(defeating the purpose of a puzzle), which takes a lot of fun away from the gameplay.
 

CrimsonCavalier

Fuzzy Pickles
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Location
United States
Gender
XY
The fact that it did work really well shows you're wrong. If you cant control SS properly its all on you, i had no issues, and a lot of gamers didnt either. I do see a lot of whining from gamers who dont want to out effort in mastering new controls and its just easy to complain.

I shouldn't have to "work" to get used to a control scheme that sucks. I had issues, and a lot of gamers did as well. I do see a lot of people defending a broken and terrible control scheme because they feel elitist and because git gud. Get over yourself, pal.

SS controls are some of the smoothest ive ever experienced.

What an absolute tool you are. You must not play many video games. Smoothest! So smooth! Please. :rolleyes:
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
Fis comments were deliberate
Almost as though someone sat down and wrote a script.

She as a goddess did not look at humans with much praise
Emphasis mine. Fi isn't a goddess. Hylia is a goddess. Fi is a robot created by the goddess to deliver a message. Your basis for 'beautiful' characterisation is a misunderstanding of what Fi is.

In the end its all the more meaningful when she realizes she was wrong.
She doesn't realise she's wrong. How can she be wrong about giving factual advice? At the end she displays the tiniest amount of empathy for Link. That's it.
This is Fi's entire """arc""":
1: Passionless robot created to passionlessly deliver a message
2: Passionless robot who passionlessly carries out pre-programmed role to help Hero
3: Passionlessly says 'You're alright, kiddo,' as she returns to the sword because her job is done
If you think that's 'beautiful', hell, if you think that's an 'arc', then you don't know what either of those words mean.

Its a shame some gamers are too suck to even realizing the subtleties of this beautiful arc. It went over the head of a lot of people.
Or, and hear me out on this one, there isn't an arc for Fi. Fi remains the same at the end of the game as she did at the beginning. The closest she comes to changing in any way is to give Link a metaphoric pat on the back. That's not character development. That's not an arc. These 'subtleties' you mention don't exist. Fi never changes the kind of information she gives you, the way she gives it to you, or her tone as she gives it to you. She is static. She remains precisely the same throughout the entire game, with the one exception being her last line of 'Good job, m8' right before she powered down.

Seriously, that's not an arc. She doesn't change. There is no A-to-B. There is only A.

The fact that it did work really well shows you're wrong.
The funny thing about facts is that when you're talking about something subjective they really aren't facts. Some people had problems with the controls. There are numerous reasons for this, ranging from faulty Wiimotes to unsteady hands to the angle of your television. Skyward Sword relies on an input method that is very easy to interfere with and motions most gamers have never done before and never will do again. It's an anomaly in terms of controls, demanding precision from all players in all circumstances with technology that can barely manage itself.

Dismissing everyone who had problems with the controls just because you, personally, didn't is to ignore how the controls work and the technology involved. It's hit-or-miss. The fact is that they didn't work for everyone.

i had no issues, and a lot of gamers didnt either
This is true. I am one of them. I had no issues with the controls for Skyward Sword. They were responsive, they were fluid, and I adjusted to them very quickly and experienced little to no learning curve.

However, as soon as the batteries in my Wiimote began to run low (which Fi was quick to constantly remind me of) the Wiimote behaved a lot less accurately. I had to sit on the edge of my bed twisted to the right in order to be directly in front of the television which made playing for long periods of time deeply uncomfortable. The wire connecting the Wiimote and Nunchuck would occasionally get caught on things, yanking the Wiimote from my hand every now and then. In the end, I grew so bored and tired of the game that I wasn't even doing the motions properly; I beat Demise by flicking my wrist, not my whole arm, because the game only needs the smallest of motions to register an action.

Notice how none of these issues come from the controls as they apply in-game but from the physical reality of using the controller. I had to alter the way I sit and play a video game in order to have as smooth an experience as I could. As a result, while I can honestly say the controls worked and the controls were responsive and the controls were fluid, I can also say the controls were bad and the controls were a problem because they required that I be more uncomfortable and that I pay attention to my physical surroundings in the real world, which is simply devastating for any sense of immersion. Skyward Sword's controls worked fine for me, but their effect was a significantly less enjoyable playing experience than I would have had with a regular controller.

Do you see my point? That just because you, personally, had no issue with them doesn't mean others' criticisms aren't valid or genuine? Everyone's experience of the game is different and you have to be aware of that or you'll just argue in circles. I'm glad you had no problems, but other people did. A subjective experience isn't 'wrong' just because you had a different subjective experience.

I do see a lot of whining from gamers who dont want to out effort in mastering new controls
It's not a matter of mastering new controls for most people. Most of the complaints I've seen about the controls all stem from hardware issues, either interference with the Wiimote (from sunlight, for example), low battery power, or physical conditions that make holding their arms up and shaking them around for several hours difficult or painful.

You're making an assumption that if someone didn't like the controls they mean the Wiimote didn't respond to what they were doing in the correct way. That will be the case for some people, but not all. It's not 'whining' from lazy gamers when swining your arm for two hours gives you joint pain or when your cat grabs the wire connecting the Nunchuck because it thinks its a toy. Obviously this won't be the case for all players, but to generalise the way you have is tantamount to ignore criticism outright, dismissing any possible issues with controls as 'whining' so that you don't have to actually consider the other person's point.

You're the one who sound like a lazy whiner to me, tbqhwyaaota.
 

mαrkαsscoρ

Mr. SidleInYourDMs
ZD Champion
Joined
May 5, 2012
Location
American Wasteland
probably an admin removed them, mine is gone too

anyways,your first problem was playing the wii version of twilight princess....like a pleb
but in all seriousness,didn't ghirahim use similar tactics from the first meeting,just w/ a couple extra moves? i don't recall have too many problems facing him at the 2nd meeting during my first time, but anyways,despite what the skyward sword hatred club may think [aka the zelda dungeon members],i do think the game is still worth playing all the way through,but i definitely agree that twilight princess is pretty much the better game,nostalgia aside
 

Ghirahimiscool

Cucco Butt
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
There are so many reasons Suckward Sword is not a good game: Contradicts the lore of the rest of the series, segmented unnatural overworld,forgettable and inappropriate music, stupid and forgettable new races, terrible companion, gaudy and ugly art style...The list goes on and on but you will not hard difficulty to be on it. SS is piss easy throughout.

Skyward Sword wasn't as bad as you claim. All of the points you used are nothing more than opinions. I personally thought Skyward Sword was an excellent game.
 

Tibari

Rinkuji
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
What is the point of converting people to dislike a game? If they find it good, they will have fun playing it, and that's what is the most important in a game.
Trying to convince someone that the game they like is bad is trying to keep them from having fun on this game.
I enjoyed Skyward Sword, the art style, the races, some musics, the motion controls, the items, I had fun playing SS, and I'm glad nobody told me that it was a bad game (since I wasn't interested in joining a community) because if someone tells me that he finds a game bad because of this and that before I play a game, I will play the game with these details in head, which is really noxious to the fun.
You don't like a game, you might share this opinion with some people, but whatever how many people have your opinion, endeavoring to prevent other people to have fun with this game just because you don't like it isn't right.

To the OP : Did you try defeating Ghirahim again since you made this thread?
 

Dio

~ It's me, Dio!~
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Location
England
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Absolute unit
What is the point of converting people to dislike a game? If they find it good, they will have fun playing it, and that's what is the most important in a game.
Trying to convince someone that the game they like is bad is trying to keep them from having fun on this game.
I enjoyed Skyward Sword, the art style, the races, some musics, the motion controls, the items, I had fun playing SS, and I'm glad nobody told me that it was a bad game (since I wasn't interested in joining a community) because if someone tells me that he finds a game bad because of this and that before I play a game, I will play the game with these details in head, which is really noxious to the fun.
You don't like a game, you might share this opinion with some people, but whatever how many people have your opinion, endeavoring to prevent other people to have fun with this game just because you don't like it isn't right.

To the OP : Did you try defeating Ghirahim again since you made this thread?

Being able to appreciate that something isn't good for particular reasons does not have to hamper your enjoyment of it.

I for instance very much enjoyed Dragonhall Evolution and the Resident Evil movies. They aren't good and I can appreciate why not but I still like them.
 

Tibari

Rinkuji
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Being able to appreciate that something isn't good for particular reasons does not have to hamper your enjoyment of it.
However, the particular reasons for SS are subjectives reasons. They don't make a game good or bad, it only impacts the personnal view of someone towards this game.
Art style, difficulty, controls, every choice the developpers made in their game can be liked or disliked by anyone. You can think it's good or bad, but while there is still people who think the game is good (like me or Ghirahimischool), you can't say "It isn't good". At least, not for these reasons.
Indeed, as I said, these kind of choices are liked or not, and that can't make a game bad for everyone. Still, a game can be poorly made (bugs, not optimized, low FPS, bad ratio price/lifetime of the game) and then it can be appreciate as a bad game if it prevents you from fully enjoy it. I didn't dislike DragonBall Evolution for instance, but I know it has bad acting and I understand why a lot of people hate it, especially dragonball purists.

But the most important is: You can consider a game good if you find it entertaining and worth your money. Everything else are just factors than can make you think this way or the opposite way, but they are only factors for your own point of view.

Being able to appreciate that something isn't good for particular reasons is considering that there isn't any different point of view in the world.
 

Amy Lu Minati

The Triangle conspiracy
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Oct 3, 2016
Gender
TriGendered
I saw the title of this thread and I was expected the reasoning to be different ( :/ Like being against Ghirahim's sexual ambiguousness or something like that). But I can understand, he was a really hard boss to fight for me at first as well. But the reason I loved this boss fight and the imprisoned boss fights is because you have to figure out a counter to each of their moves and YES there are multiple ways to kill both of them. Once you do that you can kill Ghirahim in 2o seconds easy. :/ Having difficult bosses IS NOT bad. Having easy 3 hit bosses and mostly pointless items however...
 
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Amy Lu Minati

The Triangle conspiracy
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Gender
TriGendered
I think I feel the same way Deus does, but about TP and WW, there are a lot of reasons I hate those games with a passion that some would call stupid reasons and others would agree with. #1 is cuz boss fights are my favorite part of Zelda, and that's one thing SS did do great with where the others failed horribly. Those games were pretty big disappointments for me mainly because of the boss fights. Deus and others had expectations of SS that were not met, and it met expectations I had of it. You can't make every fan happy with one game, a lot of people will dislike things because it isn't what they wanted. :/ That makes sense and I can understand, what doesn't make sense is "converting" people into hating something. What good will that do? You can't unmake a Game like you can a Demise. (lol, I did not like that paradox either dude)
 

CrimsonCavalier

Fuzzy Pickles
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Mar 27, 2015
Location
United States
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XY
I think I feel the same way Deus does, but about TP and WW, there are a lot of reasons I hate those games with a passion that some would call stupid reasons and others would agree with. #1 is cuz boss fights are my favorite part of Zelda, and that's one thing SS did do great with where the others failed horribly. Those games were pretty big disappointments for me mainly because of the boss fights. Deus and others had expectations of SS that were not met, and it met expectations I had of it. You can't make every fan happy with one game, a lot of people will dislike things because it isn't what they wanted. :/ That makes sense and I can understand, what doesn't make sense is "converting" people into hating something. What good will that do? You can't unmake a Game like you can a Demise. (lol, I did not like that paradox either dude)

I agree. And actually, it just goes to show that you can both enjoy something for the same exact reasons and dislike something someone else likes. You say you enjoy Zelda for the bosses, and I do as well. However, I thought TP had phenomenal bosses, maybe some of the best in the series, while SS's bosses—along with everything else in the game—were awful.

I will go to my grave saying SS is not just the worst Zelda ever made, but one of the worst video games ever made, period, but that's as far as I will go. I won't actually try to convince other people otherwise. Mostly because I really just don't care :P
 

Amy Lu Minati

The Triangle conspiracy
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Gender
TriGendered
I will go to my grave saying SS is not just the worst Zelda ever made, but one of the worst video games ever made
Haha! There we go, I can't even fathom how you would think that TP's bossfights are any good at all, but maybe you enjoy 3-hit wonders. As far as the worst Zelda game ever made... Try playing the CDI games sometime. :P I can promise that they are worse.
And as for video games... I've played A LOT of terrible games, E.T. anyone?
 
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