Game Thread [GAME THREAD] JOAT (Jack of All Trades) Mafia - ENDGAME - MAFIA WINS

[Rubik]

**Keep in mind that in the above counts and the below discussion for this day, I am lissi, not Hippo**

Some things that pop out here are that Mint and Rubik are the only active players Day 1 that haven't flipped yet. That's more just an amusing note rather than something I would try to draw much meaning out of. The wagons look good for yours truly. Hippo's wagon was started and ended by town, making it not likely to be the mafia drive. The tied wagon on me was started by Jamie with slight prompting by Rubik. With such small wagons and likely support from Rubik it's questionable that Jamie would start a wagon on a partner just hours before deadline.


Much more active day with the only two not throwing votes being known town now. D2 looks good on Mint and DW, with both leading the charge on Jamie most of the day. Mint switched to OG towards end of day which could have seen town Dusky saved, although it was in the final ten minutes so I probably wouldn't weigh that into the mix myself. The emphasis there is definitely the Jamie push. Jamie was on the OG wagon, however, the vote was self described self pres and OG had already stated they would use their ability in thread, so if they are aligned Jamie would probably know it's safe to self pres on a partner in that moment.


**The Final Count and 3.4 were posted back to back as 3.4 ended up being a hammer with no changes so I didn't include the final**

There isn't much to glean from yesterday as votes weren't wilding and only three slots were known. The only vote that was thrown before Rubik red checked Jamie was Rag's on OG. Jamie pushed on OG again, but not until after he was red checked. OG, myself, and Jamie are the only players not to wagon Jamie, which doesn't really look good on us, except Jamie because wagoning yourself looks worse than not no matter your alignment. To be fair to OG though, not everybody can be on a hammered wagon.

Overall my take away from this exercise is that I'm more deeply rooted in the notion that Rubik and OG are probably remaining mafs, tunnely so. What detracts from this is Rubik red checking Jamie and Jamie's interactions with the OG wagons, but what supports this is how doggedly both Mint and DW were on Jamie before Jamie being red checked. Rubik has also been exceedingly protective of OG all game.

So that's a thing. Have fun with it.

I'm generally protective of new players.

I don't think there are many worlds where I'm anything but town here, tbh.

Appreciate the wagon reference points, though.

 

[HangryHangryHippo]

I'm generally protective of new players.

I don't think there are many worlds where I'm anything but town here, tbh.

Appreciate the wagon reference points, though.

Literally the only town point in your favor the entire game is you red checking Jamie. Without that you don't look good this game. So, no, I wouldn't say you're clear and obvious town.

 

[ExLight]

Votecount 4.1.

No votes have been cast!
(as far as I can tell?)

Not voting (5) - HangryHangryHippo 2.0, Rubik, OGSniper, Dawning Winds, Mint Elv

Phase ends in about 22h.

 

[Mint Elv]

i haven’t played enough with the players here to know them well enough. So is Rubik the kind to fake a cop check or would that be something new to this game?

 

[Rubik]

I don't think I would fake a red check on a fellow scummate unless we agreed they'd probably die regardless.

I do think it would be pretty odd for a game to only have a single town aligned cop shot in it, though design solving this game is probably a losing proposition. Me giving a correct red check and confidently claiming the primary cop role this game is a pretty illogical and anti-wincon move as scum, especially since if I were scum we were probably in a pretty decent place that day otherwise. Jamie would be a better player to keep alive than myself and it would mean I were scum, gave a green check to DW for Mint (according to your theory of an OG/Me/Jamie scum team a town result). According to this theory I decided to out a teammate, and clear a townie, while also risking my life.

Mechanically, even as a gambit, it's a completely insane move that doesn't even help that much if it pays off.

 

[Rubik]

Mint's green check is only predicated on DW having been honest about my result. There's nothing stopping my initial theory of a Mint/DW scum team.

Otherwise, Mint is only scum if Mint is a godfather.

OG only performed a kill last night if they are a ninja.

HHH either redirected DW's kill or they are scum together and lied about his redirecting of the kill.

 

[Rubik]

A team of myself and DW could explain a faked check on Mint but it would mean we teamed up to clear a townie and for me to protect a second town player in a way that makes myself look bad for little and kill our own teammate.

I can't really see a good reason why I'd be scum and do anything that I've done, even for reverse psychology reasons.

 

[HangryHangryHippo]

You say that like you knew where your results would end up and that you had a choice in receiving Jamie's results. But that's not the case. So your actions aren't the plan, they are your reaction to the punch, to play off the phrase "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". So the question isn't is this something you would plan to do as scum, but is this a way you would react to unforeseen circumstances as scum.

Let's walk through them. You claim to have a failed cop N1 and checked Mint N2. From a scum cop perspective, you have no reason to expect a results shuffle N1. N2 you might consider it a possibility but you also know shots of that are going to be limited per the nature of the game so that's not really a reason to hold you back, especially considering you can play up godfather or just off your check overnight with the benefit of having cop checks to claim to make yourself look good. So neither of these actions are far fetched for you to take as scum. That brings us to the red check. Receiving it was out of your control from the start so your only concern here is what to do with it. As Jamie's partner you wouldn't be able to just ignore it. A missing result is a sure indication that scum is sitting on it. This looks bad for Jamie. You could green check him and he's safe for maybe a day, but if either of you end up flipping the other looks impossibly worse (not to mention that if OG is your third he's left in mortal peril if you save Jamie). If you red check him in a hard bus you get to launch yourself towards deep wolf status. This is the best outcome for scum in this situation and the most logical move considering at that point you still had no idea what was at towns disposal for the night after mylo. It's the safest option. Again, not a far fetched avenue for you to take as scum.

So yeah, the only thing you've done so far that leans towards you being town is the red check but even that isn't a hard clear as noted above.

 

[Rubik]

You say that like you knew where your results would end up and that you had a choice in receiving Jamie's results. But that's not the case. So your actions aren't the plan, they are your reaction to the punch, to play off the phrase "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". So the question isn't is this something you would plan to do as scum, but is this a way you would react to unforeseen circumstances as scum.

Let's walk through them. You claim to have a failed cop N1 and checked Mint N2. From a scum cop perspective, you have no reason to expect a results shuffle N1. N2 you might consider it a possibility but you also know shots of that are going to be limited per the nature of the game so that's not really a reason to hold you back, especially considering you can play up godfather or just off your check overnight with the benefit of having cop checks to claim to make yourself look good. So neither of these actions are far fetched for you to take as scum. That brings us to the red check. Receiving it was out of your control from the start so your only concern here is what to do with it. As Jamie's partner you wouldn't be able to just ignore it. A missing result is a sure indication that scum is sitting on it. This looks bad for Jamie. You could green check him and he's safe for maybe a day, but if either of you end up flipping the other looks impossibly worse (not to mention that if OG is your third he's left in mortal peril if you save Jamie). If you red check him in a hard bus you get to launch yourself towards deep wolf status. This is the best outcome for scum in this situation and the most logical move considering at that point you still had no idea what was at towns disposal for the night after mylo. It's the safest option. Again, not a far fetched avenue for you to take as scum.

So yeah, the only thing you've done so far that leans towards you being town is the red check but even that isn't a hard clear as noted above.

I knew that results had been shuffled the night before and that I would get a green check from hitting my target.

The characterization that my play is anti-town in any way operates under the assumption that OG is scum, which is a conclusion I'm not comfortable making currently at this time. I'm trying to prevent other players from lynching a new player too easily, that's all.

I'm going to be honest, my vote right now is between DW and yourself right now and the fact that you seem tunneled on me and OG makes me nervous that even if you're town and we hit scum today you will tunnel on me or OG.

I am more of the option that DW is scum than you because hitting the mod with a NK is much worse use of the action than hitting a suspicious player, but your redirect seems like a tool that is more likely to be scum than town.

 

[HangryHangryHippo]

I knew that results had been shuffled the night before and that I would get a green check from hitting my target.

The characterization that my play is anti-town in any way operates under the assumption that OG is scum, which is a conclusion I'm not comfortable making currently at this time. I'm trying to prevent other players from lynching a new player too easily, that's all.

I'm going to be honest, my vote right now is between DW and yourself right now and the fact that you seem tunneled on me and OG makes me nervous that even if you're town and we hit scum today you will tunnel on me or OG.

I am more of the option that DW is scum than you because hitting the mod with a NK is much worse use of the action than hitting a suspicious player, but your redirect seems like a tool that is more likely to be scum than town.

Now why exactly, if you are town, would you know that your investigation would be returning a green check?

@OG, you said you were waiting for scum to slip up and if that isn't one I don't know what is.

But let's go back to your play Rubik. As I pointed out in the red check assessment, OG doesn't need to be a factor for you decide to make a safe bus on Jamie. So the red check can go either way. So we will set that aside for now. Let's look at your play the rest of the game. You did nothing but vote for inactives simply because they are inactive. Both day 1 and day 2 before you red checked Jamie day 3. There is absolutely nothing pro-town about either of those first two days. You cased nobody. You focused solely on inactives who wouldn't be present to fight back. Where, exactly, in all of that do you feel like you're town telling?

 

[OGSniper]

Now why exactly, if you are town, would you know that your investigation would be returning a green check?

@OG, you said you were waiting for scum to slip up and if that isn't one I don't know what is.

But let's go back to your play Rubik. As I pointed out in the red check assessment, OG doesn't need to be a factor for you decide to make a safe bus on Jamie. So the red check can go either way. So we will set that aside for now. Let's look at your play the rest of the game. You did nothing but vote for inactives simply because they are inactive. Both day 1 and day 2 before you red checked Jamie day 3. There is absolutely nothing pro-town about either of those first two days. You cased nobody. You focused solely on inactives who wouldn't be present to fight back. Where, exactly, in all of that do you feel like you're town telling?

Looking into it right now.

 

[OGSniper]

Now why exactly, if you are town, would you know that your investigation would be returning a green check?

@OG, you said you were waiting for scum to slip up and if that isn't one I don't know what is.

But let's go back to your play Rubik. As I pointed out in the red check assessment, OG doesn't need to be a factor for you decide to make a safe bus on Jamie. So the red check can go either way. So we will set that aside for now. Let's look at your play the rest of the game. You did nothing but vote for inactives simply because they are inactive. Both day 1 and day 2 before you red checked Jamie day 3. There is absolutely nothing pro-town about either of those first two days. You cased nobody. You focused solely on inactives who wouldn't be present to fight back. Where, exactly, in all of that do you feel like you're town telling?

Hmm, this question does pique my interest. What is your response, Rubrik?

 

[OGSniper]

Look, I am going to bed really soon and I got church tomorrow, so I will prolly not have a chance to check up on things early tomorrow, so I am gonna vote now.


All in all, HHH made a pretty solid find and I think that this was the slip that was needed to solidify who I was gonna vote for.



Vote: Rubrik

 

[Rubik]

Now why exactly, if you are town, would you know that your investigation would be returning a green check?

@OG, you said you were waiting for scum to slip up and if that isn't one I don't know what is.

But let's go back to your play Rubik. As I pointed out in the red check assessment, OG doesn't need to be a factor for you decide to make a safe bus on Jamie. So the red check can go either way. So we will set that aside for now. Let's look at your play the rest of the game. You did nothing but vote for inactives simply because they are inactive. Both day 1 and day 2 before you red checked Jamie day 3. There is absolutely nothing pro-town about either of those first two days. You cased nobody. You focused solely on inactives who wouldn't be present to fight back. Where, exactly, in all of that do you feel like you're town telling?

In your scenario I would know. That's not a slip, I'm talking in your hypothetical.

I targeted both DW and Mint because they were my top scum reads early on. I did not expect a green check, but in your scenario I should have.

 

[Rubik]

I guess I have to hope that OG is scum because otherwise two scum can just pile on me and end the game.

Vote: OGSniper