Double theory: The Twili Theory & The Happy Mask Salesman Theory

[Cuccolover]

Hey there! I’m Cuccolover and I’m a huge theorist.
Recently I’ve decided that I wanted to share my theories to anyone who is interested.

I’ve got two theories because they add up to each other into one big massive theory. I recommend reading the first one before starting on the second one. The theories I present to you are;

The Twili Theory & The Happy Mask Salesman theory

Now this is something everybody once struggled with;
Who or what are the Twili?


First, I’d like to give some background information of the Twili for those that don’t know:
The Twili descended from a tribe of sorcerers known only as the Interlopers, who attempted to seize control of the Sacred Realm after the creation of the Triforce. However, their efforts failed, and they were seized by the three Goddesses, Din, Nayru, and Farore. With the aid of the Light Spirits, the Interlopers were banished to a land known as the Twilight Realm. Over a long period of time the interlopers evolved from their original forms to a unique, black and white, gentle-looking race, namely the Twili and lived in peace doing so.
These strong sorcerers used the Fused Shadows (or Shadow Crystal in Japanese), which is tool that provides powerful magic.
I’d like to note that the term interlopers is not used in the Japanese game.



I personally think the roots of the Twili lie in Ikana and are connected to the “ancient ones” which are vaguely mentioned in Majora’s Mask. The Happy Mask Salesman gives a more specific story of those “ancient ones” in the Japanese version of the game:

The ones that created the mask were destroyed, and the ancestors of the Happy Mask Salesman sealed the mask away in shadows.

Yes, that’s a really different story as the American version implied all being the doing of one tribe. But two tribes were involved, one tribe used it in their hexing rituals and got destroyed, and another tribe was powerful enough to seal away such great magic that can be seen during the events of Majora’s Mask.


You may wonder, we barely know anything about both tribes. True.
But what do we know is their design and habits. The Twili wear masks pretty often, Midna’s design in Hyrule Historia, as it even points it out, always had her wearing a mask. When first acquiring the shield, she even wore it on her face confused what to do with it. Heck, even the Twilight Emissaries (monsters) that we now know were transformed Twili, wore masks. 
Zant wears a mask with a tongue sticking out (also specifically mentioned in Hyrule Historia), practically everything in Ikana also has it’s tongue sticking out. Not to mention that Zant is dressed and fights with the same weapon and sometimes even same technique as a Garo, and behaves like Majora eventually while fighting, even screaming the same way.

Then there’s the obvious resemblance between the Fused Shadows and Majora’s Mask; An eye shaped exactly like Majora’s, while the other eye of Midna being exposed that carries the same kind of design. Even though it’s her eye design of her imp form, I doubt that’s coincidental.

As the story of the Twili goes, the Hylians were merely defeated in Hyrule. The Goddesses had to step in to prevent defeat, so it wouldn’t be surprising if this same tribe defeated the Hylians in Ikana.

So even if there is less known about them, there are clear resemblances. Chances are, part of the mask’s power or similar power was sealed away in an artifact they could use; another mask known as the Fused Shadows. Termina is all about creating masks. And my personal guess who from Termina it could be, is most likely the Sheikah. Sheikah markings can be seen among the Twili. The Fused Shadows has the Sheikah logo on it’s back and the Sheikah logo can be seen on the throne of the Twili. They could’ve gotten their victory in Termina over their own oppression of the Hylians, as we’ve seen in Hyrule the Hylians working together with the Sheikah in peace. However, the Sheikah are servants to the Royal family by birth and not by choice. There is enough reason for the Sheikah to rebel against the oppression of the Hylians. The King of Ikana points out, if it wasn’t for pesky little fights that made things worse, things would’ve been peaceful. So it seems like the war all started with a clan of their own turning against them. 


After defeating the Hylians in Termina, they got greedy for power and wanted to achieve the same thing in Hyrule by controlling their biggest source. But they failed and they ended up in a realm of “shadows” specially created for them. (As the mirror didn’t even exist before this point, it seems to be specially created for them.)


So these were my thoughts on the Twili and their origin.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An extra I’d like to add to the theory is the Happy Mask Salesman.

He’s a mysterious guy and is the only one that knows about the mask. Isn’t that strange? At first, he doesn’t want to tell you his whereabouts on the mask until you went back in time for the first time. This proves that the Happy Mask Salesman hides intel from you, and that he may be way more then what he appears to be.
 Let’s get the facts straight;
- He can see through every transformation of Link
- He knows every mask’s abilities and is highly interested in masks in general
- He knows how to undo Majora’s Mask magic
- He knew where it was, that it was sealed away for none to touch, but went to great lengths in order to get it anyway
- He appears and disappears in mere seconds.
If anything, the Sheikah are great with magic and illusions. Remember the Sheikah artifacts? There’s a high chance these artifacts are meant to be supportive for those that don’t have the ability to see the truth. It seems that looking at the facts, the Happy Mask Salesman has these traits.

Sheikah are also known for appearing and disappearing in an instance, they usually throw a nut on the ground to distract their surroundings however. But how would it look like if they didn’t? Would they really move in a flash out of sight, or would they “teleport” like the Happy Mask Salesman?


He suspiciously always closes his eyes, never revealing them. This doesn’t have to be coincidental, but as the Mayor’s wife in Termina (Madame Aroma) always has her eyes closed and Kafei has blood red eyes like the Sheikah and his father doesn’t carry this same treat, it seems that she is the one with red eyes. When the Happy Mask Salesman gets angry, they do appear red. It’s like both characters don’t want to reveal their eyes for reasons. Seeing as the Happy Mask Salesman travels a lot, he may not want to reveal his identity and puts on his own kind of “mask” by always smiling.


Adding everything up, the obvious connection is there. The Happy Mask Salesman is related to those that could control the masks’ power, as he even admits his ancestors sealed it away in shadow to prevent its misuse. Something must’ve triggered the Happy Mask Salesman to get it. 

Why did he get the mask in the first place?
The Happy Mask Salesman is mysterious, but not stupid. He claims to leave or rather flee in 3 days, which is a promise he doesn’t really keeps as he waits around long enough for you to give mask to him on the 4th day. He simply knows the risks of the mask, he knows Termina is in danger of an apocalypse in 3 days and he pressures Link to help out. But after you give the mask back, he seems rather disappointed that it has lost it’s power. Does that mean he’s a bad guy that wanted to use an evil mask? This surely implies he wanted to use that mask, but probably not entirely for something evil as it didn’t seem that he wants Termina to be destroyed.

Adding this all up, him admitting his ancestors could control the Masks’ power and those that tried to invade Hyrule ending up in the Twilight Realm, chances are he simply wanted to use the mask in order to free his tribe from their prison.

Thank you for reading and I hope you enjoyed both theories!

 

[Jirohnagi]

NOpe i will nuke this right from that sentence "

I personally think the roots of the Twili lie in Ikana and are connected to the “ancient ones” which are vaguely mentioned in Majora’s Mask." Majora's Mask lies within another world it is a parallel world and therefore the Twili would only exist within termina and not Hyrule.

Everything you've said has no real evidence at all or at best inconsequential evidence that has literally no worth to it, hence this is more headcanon than theory. Though it isn't bad to be honest you've thought it out which is better than others i've read.

 

[Cuccolover]

NOpe i will nuke this right from that sentence "

I personally think the roots of the Twili lie in Ikana and are connected to the “ancient ones” which are vaguely mentioned in Majora’s Mask." Majora's Mask lies within another world it is a parallel world and therefore the Twili would only exist within termina and not Hyrule.

Everything you've said has no real evidence at all or at best inconsequential evidence that has literally no worth to it, hence this is more headcanon than theory. Though it isn't bad to be honest you've thought it out which is better than others i've read.

How did you nuke the theory? Did I ever state anywhere that Termina isn't a parallel world? I don't understand why you rule out the option of them traveling to Hyrule? The Happy Mask Salesman, Skull Kid and Link all were able to travel back and forth to Hyrule and Termina. Who is here to say that any other person wouldn't be able to travel the same way? Even the Owl in Majora's Mask is aware of Link being a fairy boy from the forest, even though both fairy boys and forests don't exist in Termina. This proves more creatures are aware of Hyrule in Termina, even though it being a parallel world. They were mentioned as interlopers as they literally came out of nowhere. If you were to clearly "nuke" the theory, at least give me a reason why this option would be ruled out. Because Termina being parallel to Hyrule is no reason at all for them not being able to get to Hyrule. The people in Ikana even knew their way around portals as we can clearly see in Stone Tower Temple in order to face the boss.

If you have anything to prove my evidence to be inconsequential, feel free do so. But right now, you've not given me any example I can't really argue to nothing.

So as of right now, I'm just assuming you're trolling.

 

[Jirohnagi]

How did you nuke the theory? Did I ever state anywhere that Termina isn't a parallel world? I don't understand why you rule out the option of them traveling to Hyrule? The Happy Mask Salesman, Skull Kid and Link all were able to travel back and forth to Hyrule and Termina. Who is here to say that any other person wouldn't be able to travel the same way? Even the Owl in Majora's Mask is aware of Link being a fairy boy from the forest, even though both fairy boys and forests don't exist in Termina. This proves more creatures are aware of Hyrule in Termina, even though it being a parallel world. They were mentioned as interlopers as they literally came out of nowhere. If you were to clearly "nuke" the theory, at least give me a reason why this option would be ruled out. Because Termina being parallel to Hyrule is no reason at all for them not being able to get to Hyrule. The people in Ikana even knew their way around portals as we can clearly see in Stone Tower Temple in order to face the boss.

If you have anything to prove my evidence to be inconsequential, feel free do so. But right now, you've not given me any example I can't really argue to nothing.

So as of right now, I'm just assuming you're trolling.

First off, Those three individuals are the only ones who have been actually shown to do so, I'd even say that Link would've actually died before he got there but due to his time in the forest he had some protection (he was after all able to happily wander around the place. the salesman is more of a wrong time wrong place type of thing, and the Imp/Skull Kid seems to have actually originated from Termina anyway... Maybe the Salesman did as well, or possibly what we see in Termina is the Counterpart to the Hyrule Salesman.

As to who can travel there? Again it's usually stated that the portal(gateway/path) to termina is in the Lost woods you'd need an inordinately large amount of luck to get there before dying and turning into yet another undead guardian of the forest.

The Owl in Termina likely remarks on him being a fairy boy because to the casual observer he is a fairy boy, as to being from the forest, if the owl is anything like the Hyrule one then he would have clearly known that link came from a forest to enter termina. (the start of the game) those owls seem to have a lot of knowledge. And a forest does exist in termina but over time it's become more swamp than anything else, which we could likely attribute to Woodfall being what appears to be a dormant volcano or a dead one. (the Temple literally rests in a crater) which in and of itself would explain the "poison" waters of woodfall)

The dark tribe who made the mask and whom you keep saying are interlopers in all honesty died from the creation of stone tower itself, for that temple does have strong connections to both hell and the Mask itself the biggest being the big ass stone carving at the start of the temple, plus that place went from what was originally a path to heaven to a path to hell, Interlopers are defined: "a person who becomes involved in a place or situation where they are not wanted or are considered not to belong." This would include Link from MM as an interloper because he doesn't belong nor does the Salesman, The imp however does as do the dark tribe. The reason the Salesman isn't one of the dark tribe or one of their descendants is because a secret like MM which the tribe sealed would have been handed down among it's people and it's location so as to not disturb it. Now granted the salesman does seem like the devil may care type of person but if he had grown up with the substition of that mask haunting his tribe he wouldn't touch it, not to mention that we know the mask was used in the tribes rituals, and as far as we've seen the salesman may be a bit insane but he certainly has no special rituals or abilities, for all we know the reason he fades out in MM's ending could be due to the limitations of the game, we don't see hordes of enemies at all in that game, in fact we don't see more than 6 people on screen at once and thats only because 5 of them are children.

Feel free to argue your headcanon cuz it is not a theory at all. Also next time you accuse someone of trolling the same can be said of you, ye with such a crappy ideal.

 

[Cuccolover]

First off, Those three individuals are the only ones who have been actually shown to do so, I'd even say that Link would've actually died before he got there but due to his time in the forest he had some protection (he was after all able to happily wander around the place. the salesman is more of a wrong time wrong place type of thing, and the Imp/Skull Kid seems to have actually originated from Termina anyway... Maybe the Salesman did as well, or possibly what we see in Termina is the Counterpart to the Hyrule Salesman. As to who can travel there? Again it's usually stated that the portal (gateway/path) to termina is in the Lost woods you'd need an inordinately large amount of luck to get there before dying and turning into yet another undead guardian of the forest.

First, even if the Happy Mask Salesman would've originated from Termina, you can see clearly that he got robbed in the forest, the Lost Woods to be more specific. If that's not enough, he admits that he followed Link through the portal to Termina. Skull Kids are only formed by lost children in the forest and since Termina doesn't even have a forest, or didn't have much at the very start of the game where Skull Kid is said to be friends with the giants before the four lands were formed, means he really came from Hyrule.

Second, many characters in Twilight Princess never appeared in Hyrule before, such as the monkeys and humans. Not to mention Nintendo leaked tons of design influenced by Termina's people, for example Ashei being Kafei's descendent.

Third, seeing how you believe Link died and turned into an undead guardian is rather hilarious, as Twilight Princess is confirmed to be the Hero of Time's descendent by blood so Link must've been old enough to settle down and have a family, so there's your confirmation he went to Termina and got back. His so called "Stalfos" figure matches exactly those of the representative ghosts in Twilight Princess at the graveyard. He's literally mentioned to be a spirit in the Japanese version, even though the english version went with shade. Last time I checked, Stalfos can't transform into other spirit forms and aren't transparant. That "link is dead" theory has been debunked so many times on all accounts, I didn't expect it to be explaining it to you here.
If you want, I helped out a friend on debunking it entirely, feel free to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO4CBAAWqpw

The Owl in Termina likely remarks on him being a fairy boy because to the casual observer he is a fairy boy, as to being from the forest, if the owl is anything like the Hyrule one then he would have clearly known that link came from a forest to enter termina. (the start of the game) those owls seem to have a lot of knowledge. And a forest does exist in termina but over time it's become more swamp than anything else, which we could likely attribute to Woodfall being what appears to be a dormant volcano or a dead one. (the Temple literally rests in a crater) which in and of itself would explain the "poison" waters of woodfall)

You didn't even go with "it's possible" no, you make a straight out claim that Termina is a forest. There's not a single bit of confirmation that a forest in Termina transformed into a swamp over time and none of it would make sense either. The entire design of Termina has different regions opposing to Hyrule's and it would be weird if just one of them started as something similar to Hyrule. The owl in Hyrule is confirmed to be Rauru, I doubt that's the same case here.

The dark tribe who made the mask and whom you keep saying are interlopers in all honesty died from the creation of stone tower itself, for that temple does have strong connections to both hell and the Mask itself the biggest being the big ass stone carving at the start of the temple, plus that place went from what was originally a path to heaven to a path to hell, Interlopers are defined: "a person who becomes involved in a place or situation where they are not wanted or are considered not to belong." This would include Link from MM as an interloper because he doesn't belong nor does the Salesman, The imp however does as do the dark tribe. The reason the Salesman isn't one of the dark tribe or one of their descendants is because a secret like MM which the tribe sealed would have been handed down among it's people and it's location so as to not disturb it. Now granted the salesman does seem like the devil may care type of person but if he had grown up with the substition of that mask haunting his tribe he wouldn't touch it, not to mention that we know the mask was used in the tribes rituals, and as far as we've seen the salesman may be a bit insane but he certainly has no special rituals or abilities, for all we know the reason he fades out in MM's ending could be due to the limitations of the game, we don't see hordes of enemies at all in that game, in fact we don't see more than 6 people on screen at once and thats only because 5 of them are children.

You first come with an assumption based on absolutely nothing; "in all honesty died from the creation of the Stone Tower itself". Got anything at all to back that up? All you can tell is that there's a possibility the Mask originated from that place, that's it.
A path to heaven and hell, there's where people like to bash their christianity into a game that completely revolves around buddhism, and placing a giant Buddha head still didn't make people ring a bell I guess.
The rest of that, what? Are you being serious right now? So you think the tribe would be stupid enough to spread info to people outside their tribe?
You think the developers were so sloppy to make him fade out in the game due to limitations of the game? Did you just seriously read what you said?
Hordes of enemies don't appear in the game? You mean stuff like the aliens? Spiderhouses? Tons of chickens and dogs at the ranch?

Feel free to argue your headcanon cuz it is not a theory at all. Also next time you accuse someone of trolling the same can be said of you, ye with such a crappy ideal.

So far, your counterarguments such as the swamp once being a forest, tribe being destroyed by it's own creation, Skull Kid's origin, Happy Mask Salesman not traveling through the portal, Link being dead during the adventures of Termina, your argumentation that it's not possible to go back to Hyrule from Termina even though Skull Kid did it tons of times, were things based on absolutely nothing or even contradicted canon evidence. That means that my theory so far didn't contradict anything but your own ignorant perspective and you'd rather bend that perspective in a way it fits, ignoring canon evidence and logic, than you'd look at things like this with an open mind. And then you have the guts to say that I didn't write a theory, as if you are in the position to tell whatever is theory or not. So far you haven't been presenting me a theory, you've presented me nothing but errors. Next time you accuse me of something, try to have at least any ground to stand on.

You're the worst. I'm not spending another minute trying to convince someone that is so extremely close minded.
Have a good day.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]



I personally think the roots of the Twili lie in Ikana and are connected to the “ancient ones” which are vaguely mentioned in Majora’s Mask.

I always felt the Twili's roots are found within the Sheikah. Why? Because in order to know were the Triforce was they would have had to have inside information, this kind of info can only be found within the Hylian Royal Family. It always seems as if the Sheikah, servents of the Royal Family, have just as much knowledge as the Royal Family itself.

The Happy Mask Salesman gives a more specific story of those “ancient ones” in the Japanese version of the game:

The ones that created the mask were destroyed, and the ancestors of the Happy Mask Salesman sealed the mask away in shadows.

Yes, that’s a really different story as the American version implied all being the doing of one tribe. But two tribes were involved, one tribe used it in their hexing rituals and got destroyed, and another tribe was powerful enough to seal away such great magic that can be seen during the events of Majora’s Mask.

This is just speculation, it's never confirmed he is a member of the “tribe” that created Majora's Mask, although there is a lot that alludes to the possibility that he could be. Afterall he somehow found the Mask despite it being sealed away. He claims nobody knows the Mask's true powers yet prior to that he told Link what the Mask would do to the people who wear it like he does know.

Anyway I'm not sure if the Japanese version is any different than the American game. I don't think any version specifies how many tribes were involved with the Mask (is there anyway you can translate and quote the Japanese version, I'm interested in it now that you've implied it varies from the American Version). The Mask was made by a tribe and used in it's hexing rituals. The power of the mask grew until the Tribe feared it. To prevent it's misuse they sealed it away, and vanished. Now there are quite a few theories as to what happened to them. The obvious one is that they died off, it's never something hinted to but it's plausible. The other theory is that the same tribe went to Hyrule and became the Shiekah by pledging their service to Hylia. Some people also believe they were the Dark Interlopers. It's all speculation, I personally have never took the time or effort to really figure out my own opinion of what may have happened to the Tribe that Made Majora's Mask. I will say this though, Majora's Mask doesn't neccessarily have to be a mask from Termina, the Happy Mask Salesman is afterall a traveling Mask Salesman so he could have found it anywere, maybe even in Hyrule.

we barely know anything about both tribes.

We know nothing about the Tribe that made Majora's Mask, however when you think about it we can learn a lot about the Dark Interlopers through the Twili. Twilight Princess also gives us a lot of insight on the Dark Interlopers from the Light Spirits, and Midna

Then there’s the obvious resemblance between the Fused Shadows and Majora’s Mask; An eye shaped exactly like Majora’s, while the other eye of Midna being exposed that carries the same kind of design. Even though it’s her eye design of her imp form, I doubt that’s coincidental.

Speculation. This actually isn't anything new, in fact people have been comparing the Dark Interlopers and the Tribe of Legend from Majora's Mask for years. I never really associated the tribes together, but I cannot deny that the Dark Interlopers being banished might explain why the tribe of legend spoken of in Majora's Mask are told to have just vanished. Maybe the fused Shadows is more or less a revised version of Majora's Mask? I've always felt like the tribe menetioned in MM made the mask and used it not really understanding what it was, I imagine them as novice sorcerors. Maybe over time they perfected their magic until they become the Dark Interlopers? I mean it's a possibility that cannot be fully disregarded.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

possibly what we see in Termina is the Counterpart to the Hyrule Salesman.

Shiro, come on bro... the Salesman in Termina is the same Salesman from Hyrule. In the game he even says, “I own the Happy Mask Shop. I travel far and wide in search for masks. During my travels, a very important mask was stolen from me by an imp in the woods.” -Happy Mask Salesman

There is no Happy Mask Shop in Termina. To add, he was jumped by Skull Kid in the Lost Woods, this means the Mask was stolen from him in Hyrule meaning that the Happy Mask Salesman that follows Link to Termina is the same Happy Mask Salesman Link met in Ocarina of Time.

 

[Cuccolover]

I always felt the Twili's roots are found within the Sheikah. Why? Because in order to know were the Triforce was they would have had to have inside information, this kind of info can only be found within the Hylian Royal Family. It always seems as if the Sheikah, servents of the Royal Family, have just as much knowledge as the Royal Family itself.

Termina did prove at one time to have knowledge about the Triforce, as the symbol used to be displayed in Stone Tower Temple. It was taken out in the 3DS version. I'm speculating that once the Sheikah of Termina revealed themselves in Hyrule, some Sheikah in Hyrule came to their aid and were punished for it later by their own tribe. (could explain the origin of Bongo Bongo) This is all just speculation of course.

This is just speculation, it's never confirmed he is a member of the “tribe” that created Majora's Mask, although there is a lot that alludes to the possibility that he could be. Afterall he somehow found the Mask despite it being sealed away. He claims nobody knows the Mask's true powers yet prior to that he told Link what the Mask would do to the people who wear it like he does know.

Anyway I'm not sure if the Japanese version is any different than the American game. I don't think any version specifies how many tribes were involved with the Mask (is there anyway you can translate and quote the Japanese version, I'm interested in it now that you've implied it varies from the American Version). The Mask was made by a tribe and used in it's hexing rituals. The power of the mask grew until the Tribe feared it. To prevent it's misuse they sealed it away, and vanished. Now there are quite a few theories as to what happened to them. The obvious one is that they died off, it's never something hinted to but it's plausible. The other theory is that the same tribe went to Hyrule and became the Shiekah by pledging their service to Hylia. Some people also believe they were the Dark Interlopers. It's all speculation, I personally have never took the time or effort to really figure out my own opinion of what may have happened to the Tribe that Made Majora's Mask. I will say this though, Majora's Mask doesn't neccessarily have to be a mask from Termina, the Happy Mask Salesman is afterall a traveling Mask Salesman so he could have found it anywere, maybe even in Hyrule.

Let me show you the direct translation. First you see the actual in-game Japanese lines, then it's direct translation, then the American version;

実は ワタクシの盗まれた あの仮面・・・ ムジュラの仮面といって
The truth is, the mask that was stolen from me… is called Mujura’s Mask.
The mask that was stolen from me... It is called Majora's Mask.

太古の とある民族が 呪いの儀式で 使っていたとされる 伝説の 呪物なのです
A certain race in ancient times used it for their cursing ceremonies. It is a legendary fetish.
It is an accursed item from legend that is said to have been used by an ancient tribe in its hexing rituals.

その仮面をかぶった者には 邪悪で すさまじい力が宿ると 言い伝えられています
The legend says that the one who puts it on will have a terrible and evil power dwell within them.
It is said that an evil and wicked power is bestowed upon the one who wears that mask.

伝説では・・・
The legend says…
According to legend...

ムジュラの仮面が もたらす 災いの あまりの大きさに
The calamity brought about by Mujura’s Mask was so great that
the troubles caused by Majora's Mask were so great...

それを恐れた 先人たちが 仮面を悪用 されないよう 永遠の闇に 封じ込めたといいます
our ancestors who feared this sealed it within the eternal darkness so that it would not be misused.
the ancient ones, fearing such catastrophe, sealed the mask in shadow forever, preventing its misuse.

その力が どんな力なのか 伝説に 記された その民族が 滅びた 今では わかりません
What power does the mask hold? The race spoken of in the legend was destroyed, so we do not know.
But now, that tribe from the legend has vanished, so no one really knows the true nature of the mask's power...

・・・しかし、ワタクシは感じます
…But I can feel it.
...But I feel it.

苦労して手に入れた伝説の仮面 あれを 手にした時感じた 身の毛もよだつ まがまがしい力
I went through many hardships to get my hands on the legendary mask. And when I did so, I felt it. An ominous power that made my hair stand on end.
I went to great lengths to get that legendary mask. When I finally had it... I could sense the doom of a dark omen brewing. It was that unwelcome feeling that makes your hair stand on end.

あれが 今 あの小鬼の手にある・・・
Now it is in the hands of that little demon…
And now... that imp has it...

And that's what he says. There are way more translation differences, even errors that I can show you if you are interested. Of course, he could've meant "our ancestors" in general as his and Link's ancestors, but seeing how the Hylians fell in the war I doubt it has much to do with it. I honestly think the location of Majora's Mask was within the Stone Tower Temple, as it's up-side down texture shows it.
It makes quite a different story from the American version.

Speculation. This actually isn't anything new, in fact people have been comparing the Dark Interlopers and the Tribe of Legend from Majora's Mask for years. I never really associated the tribes together, but I cannot deny that the Dark Interlopers being banished might explain why the tribe of legend spoken of in Majora's Mask are told to have just vanished. Maybe the fused Shadows is more or less a revised version of Majora's Mask? I've always felt like the tribe menetioned in MM made the mask and used it not really understanding what it was, I imagine them as novice sorcerors. Maybe over time they perfected their magic until they become the Dark Interlopers? I mean it's a possibility that cannot be fully disregarded.

It could be. But there's a difference; Majora's Mask was a spirit sealed inside a mask; a spirit of a demon in fact. We all witnessed it's incarnation. Maybe they found a way to tap the power of this demon, into another kind of mask. At least, that's what I was going for. I bet you have a different opinion on the story now I've revealed you the actual story the Happy Mask Salesman tells you. It's just like people believe Skull Kid killed Epona by saying "got rid of", but he says abandoned in the Japanese translation.

 

[Jirohnagi]

I love how you didn't like what i put down in your thread so you've blocked me, Kinda sad really that you couldn't take the criticism nor the opinion of someone else. Nothing you say has sound backing at all, in fact it's all literally in that thing you call your head, hence headcanon. You've not shown any reliable evidence at all.

And you claiming Ashei and Kafei are related is laudable at best, you've no proof bar a concept image of adult kafei which conveniently can't be found. Please come back with a real theory next time and not your precious head canon.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Termina did prove at one time to have knowledge about the Triforce, as the symbol used to be displayed in Stone Tower Temple. It was taken out in the 3DS version. I'm speculating that once the Sheikah of Termina revealed themselves in Hyrule, some Sheikah in Hyrule came to their aid and were punished for it later by their own tribe. (could explain the origin of Bongo Bongo) This is all just speculation of course.



Let me show you the direct translation. First you see the actual in-game Japanese lines, then it's direct translation, then the American version;

実は ワタクシの盗まれた あの仮面・・・ ムジュラの仮面といって
The truth is, the mask that was stolen from me… is called Mujura’s Mask.
The mask that was stolen from me... It is called Majora's Mask.

太古の とある民族が 呪いの儀式で 使っていたとされる 伝説の 呪物なのです
A certain race in ancient times used it for their cursing ceremonies. It is a legendary fetish.
It is an accursed item from legend that is said to have been used by an ancient tribe in its hexing rituals.

その仮面をかぶった者には 邪悪で すさまじい力が宿ると 言い伝えられています
The legend says that the one who puts it on will have a terrible and evil power dwell within them.
It is said that an evil and wicked power is bestowed upon the one who wears that mask.

伝説では・・・
The legend says…
According to legend...

ムジュラの仮面が もたらす 災いの あまりの大きさに
The calamity brought about by Mujura’s Mask was so great that
the troubles caused by Majora's Mask were so great...

それを恐れた 先人たちが 仮面を悪用 されないよう 永遠の闇に 封じ込めたといいます
our ancestors who feared this sealed it within the eternal darkness so that it would not be misused.
the ancient ones, fearing such catastrophe, sealed the mask in shadow forever, preventing its misuse.

その力が どんな力なのか 伝説に 記された その民族が 滅びた 今では わかりません
What power does the mask hold? The race spoken of in the legend was destroyed, so we do not know.
But now, that tribe from the legend has vanished, so no one really knows the true nature of the mask's power...

・・・しかし、ワタクシは感じます
…But I can feel it.
...But I feel it.

苦労して手に入れた伝説の仮面 あれを 手にした時感じた 身の毛もよだつ まがまがしい力
I went through many hardships to get my hands on the legendary mask. And when I did so, I felt it. An ominous power that made my hair stand on end.
I went to great lengths to get that legendary mask. When I finally had it... I could sense the doom of a dark omen brewing. It was that unwelcome feeling that makes your hair stand on end.

あれが 今 あの小鬼の手にある・・・
Now it is in the hands of that little demon…
And now... that imp has it...

And that's what he says. There are way more translation differences, even errors that I can show you if you are interested. Of course, he could've meant "our ancestors" in general as his and Link's ancestors, but seeing how the Hylians fell in the war I doubt it has much to do with it. I honestly think the location of Majora's Mask was within the Stone Tower Temple, as it's up-side down texture shows it.
It makes quite a different story from the American version.



It could be. But there's a difference; Majora's Mask was a spirit sealed inside a mask; a spirit of a demon in fact. We all witnessed it's incarnation. Maybe they found a way to tap the power of this demon, into another kind of mask. At least, that's what I was going for. I bet you have a different opinion on the story now I've revealed you the actual story the Happy Mask Salesman tells you. It's just like people believe Skull Kid killed Epona by saying "got rid of", but he says abandoned in the Japanese translation.

After looking over it I find the story is essientially the same as the English version. Now the biggest difference is that in the Japanese version the Happy Mask Salesman refers to the tribe of legend as, “our ancestors” this was omitted from the English version of the game. Key point though, I take “our” as a plural reference, not singular. Still this is very interesting, however I wouldn't take it as the smoking gun confirming a link between the Happy Mask Salesman and the tribe of legend.

I also am failing to see were you are getting the notion that two tribes are established in the Japanese text, everything seems consistent enough to assume almost without a doubt the Happy Mask Salesman is referring to only one tribe throughout.

 

[Cuccolover]

After looking over it I find the story is essientially the same as the English version. Now the biggest difference is that in the Japanese version the Happy Mask Salesman refers to the tribe of legend as, “our ancestors” this was omitted from the English version of the game. Key point though, I take “our” as a plural reference, not singular. Still this is very interesting, however I wouldn't take it as the smoking gun confirming a link between the Happy Mask Salesman and the tribe of legend.

I also am failing to see were you are getting the notion that two tribes are established in the Japanese text, everything seems consistent enough to assume almost without a doubt the Happy Mask Salesman is referring to only one tribe throughout.

Really? So your assumption is that when he mentions their ancestors, you'd say he's referring to the tribe that has been destroyed? So you think he mentions the certain race specifically the entire time, only to say that "our ancestors" would bare the same meaning as this specific tribe?
That wouldn't make sense now, would it?

Let me give you another example to argue that there are some terrible translations out there. This was done by the same American translator that translated Majora's Mask;

かつて、あのゲルド砂漠には　ある大罪人を罰した処刑場が　あった　そうです
In the Gerudo Desert, there once was an execution place at which a certain big criminal was punished.
The Gerudo Desert once held a prison built to hold the worst criminals this land has ever known...

何でも、その大罪人は　処刑場にある呪われた鏡によって　あの世に　送り込まれてしまった　とか・・・
As I heard, that big criminal was sent to the other world by means of a cursed mirror kept at the execution place, and so on…
The criminals who were sentenced to death were sent directly to the underworld by a cursed mirror that was kept in the prison...

今ではその処刑場は閉鎖され、砂漠へ行く道も絶たれております
Nowadays that execution place is shut down, and even the road leading to the desert is cut off.
Now that prison is condemned, and even the road leading to the desert is impassable.

世界と隔たれた砂漠・・・そこに取り残された鏡と死人の怨念・・・
The desert which was separated from the world... left behind at that place was the mirror and the grudge of the deceased…
This desert at world's end... It still holds the cursed mirror and the malice of the doomed inmates...

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Really? So your assumption is that when he mentions their ancestors, you'd say he's referring to the tribe that has been destroyed? So you think he mentions the certain race specifically the entire time, only to say that "our ancestors" would bare the same meaning as this specific tribe?
That wouldn't make sense now, would it?

Let me give you another example to argue that there are some terrible translations out there. This was done by the same American translator that translated Majora's Mask;

かつて、あのゲルド砂漠には　ある大罪人を罰した処刑場が　あった　そうです
In the Gerudo Desert, there once was an execution place at which a certain big criminal was punished.
The Gerudo Desert once held a prison built to hold the worst criminals this land has ever known...

何でも、その大罪人は　処刑場にある呪われた鏡によって　あの世に　送り込まれてしまった　とか・・・
As I heard, that big criminal was sent to the other world by means of a cursed mirror kept at the execution place, and so on…
The criminals who were sentenced to death were sent directly to the underworld by a cursed mirror that was kept in the prison...

今ではその処刑場は閉鎖され、砂漠へ行く道も絶たれております
Nowadays that execution place is shut down, and even the road leading to the desert is cut off.
Now that prison is condemned, and even the road leading to the desert is impassable.

世界と隔たれた砂漠・・・そこに取り残された鏡と死人の怨念・・・
The desert which was separated from the world... left behind at that place was the mirror and the grudge of the deceased…
This desert at world's end... It still holds the cursed mirror and the malice of the doomed inmates...

Well I admit the translations do vary. Anyway I doubt the Happy Mask Salesman would tell if he even knew the ancient tribe was still around anyway, don't you think he'd want to maintain the rouse that they are no longer around? I mean honestly let's say they were around and the HMS went to go unseal Majora's Mask, technically wouldn't that make him a criminal? Wouldn't he want to assure Link that he didn't steal it against the tribes will?

 

[Cuccolover]

Well I admit the translations do vary. Anyway I doubt the Happy Mask Salesman would tell if he even knew the ancient tribe was still around anyway, don't you think he'd want to maintain the rouse that they are no longer around? I mean honestly let's say they were around and the HMS went to go unseal Majora's Mask, technically wouldn't that make him a criminal? Wouldn't he want to assure Link that he didn't steal it against the tribes will?

That's the thing, he IS a criminal. The mask was sealed away safely, until he brought it back to the world. He went to get an purely evil mask with enormous power for unknown purposes. Whatever purpose he may have, it's not any good. But since he's a salesman the most obvious reason to get it would be to sell it. There's a possibility he'd be lying of course. At first he hid the information from Link about the mask when first asking if he could get it back, which is why he opens "the truth is..." after Link's first return. But mainly I just wanted to point out that there are translation differences and different interpretations to the story than previously stated in the American version.

 

[Batman]

Please be civil in this debate. You don't have to agree with the other side, you may even find the other side's ideas ridiculous, but do not flame and insult each other. Argue with integrity and let the strength of your points win the debate, not insulting or being unnecessarily harsh to the other person's character.