Spoiler Did Demise Ruin Ganondorf for Anyone Else?

[JakeProtagonist]

EDIT: I actually dont think this anymore and now Believe That Demise's Hatred isnt Ganondorf, but he was just speaking metaphoricly, and I took him too literal. I now think he was just foreshadowing the future, which is pretty cool. Wish he had a better backstory still though. But feel free to discuss anyway.

I must admit, as much as I love Skyward Sword, I kinda hate how they explained Ganondorf. It was uncreative, and now we're suppose to just see Ganon as just some other guy's, who we didnt even learn that much about, hatred. No, i refuse to accept that. I kinda hated Demise in general. It should've just stayed with Ghirahim the whole game. His fight was a lot tougher too. They shouldve ended it like this.

After Ghirahim is killed for the final boss, after his master is destroyed and he fails to get revenge, he is sealed away in the master Sword for Fi to keep under control. Around the time of Ganondorfs birth in OOT, After the ending of the game of course, We cut to a cutscene. We see Ganondorf being born and Ghirahim seems to notice the boys future and the power he will hold. He believes its his master reborn somehow, he kills Fi's spirit and escapes and spiritually flys over to try to convince Ganon of him being some one else and offers his powers that he explains could help him take over the land. He smirks, gets the power, kills Ghirahim's spirit with it and now plans on using it for his own plans, which were inspired by the what the now dead Ghirahim said. and so OOT happens.

Its not perfect by any means, but it would have been much better, than "Ganon is someones hatred" Ganon is WAY too cool for THAT to be his backstory...
Feel free to think of better ideas for the ending if you wish. But seriously, does anyone else kinda hate Demise now?

 

[Djinn]

Not necessarily, I tend to think of Demise as a totally separate entity from Ganondorf entirely. He had a very different origin, what little of one we saw. But I thought it was refreshing to finally see someone else actually go after the Triforce, since it would have been a very tempting item for any villain near Hyrule. Even after the ending I see little reason to think of Ganondorf and Demise as the same being, even as reincarnations they cannot really be considered the same. An ancient demonic entity that lead an army and attempted to claim power doe not quite equal a desert thief king that claimed the triforce and became a dark ruler. Both characters might hold similar positions but their origins and motivations are somewhat different. Even with that said I still like Demise as a main antagonist of a game. I think he was an interesting character on his own even if we only saw just a little bit of him.

In my opinion, Ganondorf appearing in TP out of nowhere in mid game ruined Ganondorf for me. I was basically tired of the character and really wanted to see a totally different unrelated antagonist from that point on. Maybe in a while I could stomach another Ganondorf appearance. But taking all the momentum built in the first several hours of a game did create quite a bit of fatigue. I was glad to finally see another main console Zelda game that included all the other concepts such as the triforce, Zelda, etc, but had a totally different villain. And no mention of a Ganondorf anywhere in the story.

I like to think SS did a much better job of transferring momentum over to another greater villain through the story. In TP it seemed very forced and abrupt. But in SS it was stated to be Ghirahim' mission to help revive his master early on. It did not seem like Demise just replaced Ghirahim like Ganondorf did to Zant. He was alluded to even in the intro sequence before gameplay.

 

[JakeProtagonist]

The Problem I have is that the game flat out says, Ganon IS the incarnation of Demise's Hatred. That doesnt make them them the same being true, but it bassically says that this one random guy is the ONLY reason almost all of the other Zelda games happened for the most part. Thats... Pretty agrivating in some way isnt it?

 

[Djinn]

The Problem I have is that the game flat out says, Ganon IS the incarnation of Demise's Hatred. That doesnt make them them the same being true, but it bassically says that this one random guy is the ONLY reason almost all of the other Zelda games happened for the most part. Thats... Pretty agrivating in some way isnt it?

Demise's last words really leave things up in the air as to what they exactly mean. I do not quite see it as Demise=Ganondorf like you said. Ganondorf was not named anywhere in there. In fact his exact words were,

Those like you... Those who share the
blood of the goddess and the spirit of
the hero... They are eternally bound to
this curse.
An incarnation of my hatred shall
ever follow your kind, dooming them to
wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness
for all time!

Which is kind of hard to take since Fi immediately said this after that.

I have confirmed the eradication of the
demon king.


His residual consciousness has been
absorbed into the Master Sword...
and is now sealed away.

Zelda, at the command of the goddess,
I passed through the Gate of Time.
I did so to protect you and aid the fight
to prevent the world's destruction.
The last remnants of Demise are
decaying slowly within the sword.
Someone must stay behind to watch
over this blade.
His spirit must not reawaken.
He must never be allowed to threaten
the world again.

It might be kind of hard for him to accomplish his final words when his consciousness was sealed in the sword. Sounds more like a last effort to scream curses at the hero in defeat. We may even find out that Ganondorf might not even be that incarnation later on. When I think of a demonic presence that hunts Link on occasion and uses a sword very similar to his own. That makes me think of Dark Link.

 

[JakeProtagonist]

But didnt Nintendo say that this game would mention the birth of Ganondorf somehow? So either that is the reason, or Nintendo lied to us. Because there is nothing else that could resemble Ganondorf's appearance.

 

[awsomeMrlink]

Yeah, it kind of ruined Ganondorf for me a little. Knowing he was just a reborn Demise kind of made me unhappy D:. But of course Ganondorf will always be awesome in my heart no matter how many other villains spoil him.

 

[JakeProtagonist]

Yeah, it kind of ruined Ganondorf for me a little. Knowing he was just a reborn Demise kind of made me unhappy D:. But of course Ganondorf will always be awesome in my heart no matter how many other villains spoil him.

Ganondorf could woop Demise

 

[LinkPTY]

The Problem I have is that the game flat out says, Ganon IS the incarnation of Demise's Hatred. That doesnt make them them the same being true, but it bassically says that this one random guy is the ONLY reason almost all of the other Zelda games happened for the most part. Thats... Pretty agrivating in some way isnt it?

Like you said, the game states Ganondorf is the reincarnation of Demise's HATRED, which makes sense since Ganondorf wants to put Hyrule in a world of shadows, and, unlike Demise, he works alone.

I think Demise and Ganondorf are two completely different beings with only Demise's hatred linking them.

 

[Rafa1996]

But didnt Nintendo say that this game would mention the birth of Ganondorf somehow? So either that is the reason, or Nintendo lied to us. Because there is nothing else that could resemble Ganondorf's appearance.

They only said they would explain Ganondorf's origins.

 

[JakeProtagonist]

They only said they would explain Ganondorf's origins.

Thats the same thing as I said except in different words, it doesnt make a difference. i used the term "Birth" as Origin in this case. It could mean that since it means something coming into existence.

 

[JuicieJ]

I disagree. I don't think it changes Ganondorf's status at all. In my opinion, it was to explain why Ganondorf always comes back after defeat, rather than his origins. Demise's hate never perishes, so Ganondorf just keeps coming back over and over without end. My thoughts on his origins are still the same. I view him as an evil Gerudo male who wants the Triforce (in a nutshell). It's not like Demise's hate caused Ganondorf to be born. It's just why he's so evil (and why he always comes back).

 

[JakeProtagonist]

I disagree. I don't think it changes Ganondorf's status at all. In my opinion, it was to explain why Ganondorf always comes back after defeat, rather than his origins. Demise's hate never perishes, so Ganondorf just keeps coming back over and over without end. My thoughts on his origins are still the same. I view him as an evil Gerudo male who wants the Triforce (in a nutshell). It's not like Demise's hate caused Ganondorf to be born. It's just why he's so evil (and why he always comes back).

If that be the case, it kinda makes me feel completley indifferent to Demise now. In that case, I dont like him as a villain, and shouldnt have been included, or at least introduced earlier.

 

[Lord Death]

I agree with you, Jake. The whole Ganondorf is the incarnation of Demise's hatred is flat out stupid. It might have been different if we had known more about Demise or had seen him in more games, but we learn most of what we know about him 3/4ths of the way through this one title. Now this guy who we just met, and who's character isn't very appealing in my opinion, is suppose to be the explanation for most of the other games? Come on guys. That's ridiculous. And hatred? What hatred?! It's not like Link just showed up and ruined his plan! Demise clearly was over-confident, and just welcomed Link to kill him.

Demise: "Ohai Link! You're a human. You're pathetic. Come face me."
*Link kills him*
Demise: "Oh no... You killed me... Well, my hatred will return, so it's no biggie. Yep, the series you've known and loved for 25 years was just explained by me, a mysterious monster character with fire hair who you just met like 5 minutes ago, and my hatred. Grr, I'm so super angry at you Link, even tho it was my fault for being over-confident!"

Okay, don't take that offensively. Just having a little fun. But seriously, could've been handled much better IMO. SS is still my favorite Zelda, and I'm sure we will learn more in the future, but his hatred.... really? Ganondorf deserves better...

 

[Cuju]

I am so happy Nintendo did this! That means more Ganondorfs later in both the child and adult timeline!!!

 

[JuicieJ]

I am so happy Nintendo did this! That means more Ganondorfs later in both the child and adult timeline!!!

Actually, that's not necessarily true. It was never said that Ganondorf would always be the one to come back. It just said that Demise's hatred would "be born again in an endless cycle." That means that something besides Ganondorf can come along after him with Demise's hatred in him/her. I still say Ganondorf on the AT is gone for good due to this.

I agree with you, Jake. The whole Ganondorf is the incarnation of Demise's hatred is flat out stupid. It might have been different if we had known more about Demise or had seen him in more games, but we learn most of what we know about him 3/4ths of the way through this one title. Now this guy who we just met, and who's character isn't very appealing in my opinion, is suppose to be the explanation for most of the other games? Come on guys. That's ridiculous. And hatred? What hatred?! It's not like Link just showed up and ruined his plan! Demise clearly was over-confident, and just welcomed Link to kill him.

Demise: "Ohai Link! You're a human. You're pathetic. Come face me."
*Link kills him*
Demise: "Oh no... You killed me... Well, my hatred will return, so it's no biggie. Yep, the series you've known and loved for 25 years was just explained by me, a mysterious monster character with fire hair who you just met like 5 minutes ago, and my hatred. Grr, I'm so super angry at you Link, even tho it was my fault for being over-confident!"

Okay, don't take that offensively. Just having a little fun. But seriously, could've been handled much better IMO. SS is still my favorite Zelda, and I'm sure we will learn more in the future, but his hatred.... really? Ganondorf deserves better...

While I agree that this was a bit quick of a way to "touch on why Ganondorf showed up," I think it's a legitimate explanation to use Demise's hatred as a reason to why Ganondorf keeps coming back. Like I already said, it's not like the only reason Ganondorf was born is because of Demise. He's so evil and is capable of constantly coming back because of Demise. Those two things are quite different.