Demise's Final Words- My Interpritation (spoilers)

[agoraphobia]

I noticed that It's become popular opinion that Demise cursed link and Zelda... that his curse was to forever haunt their bloodlines and courageous heroes....

I don't think that he did, I think he stated that he is in fact the one that is cursed (something that happened to him long ago)and as long as there are those who protect the triforce, they will forever have to deal with his curse of reincarnation. and his lust for the triforce


He first says "My hate never perishes and it is born anew in a cycle with never end..I will rise again"

meaning he is already aware of this, that it has happened before and will happen again and again.

"Those like you, those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero they are eternally bound to this curse"

Here he is saying that so long as there are protectors of the trifoce, they will never be at full peace as he will always be attempting to get the triforce when ever returns in his various re incarnations, as that is his curse.

Now I'll fully admit that my opinion can easily be fought in that demise is aware of this, yet Ganon isn't... but C'est la vie

your thoughts?

 

[JuicieJ]

In a fan retranslation, it's made clear that he just reincarnates no matter what. Fi's scan also says that he appears differently in each epoch, further supporting that notion. It's not just because of the Triforce. It's just because Demise's hatred is that powerful. It's actually possible that Demise is hatred incarnated.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

Here's my thoughts on Demise's last words. Not at all trying to blow my own horn here, but I find it to be the least contradictory interpretation of such words. It even slots nicely into this fan-re translation that JJ has posted (even though fan re-translations don't hold any water at all here)

Whilst I don't think it's a curse at all, I am in agreement that Demise is not reciting anything new. Just reciting old information that he too has fallen prey to. People take his words far too simplistically. "Demise says it's a curse, therefore it is". It's good to see other members looking a little deeper into this :yes:

 

[JuicieJ]

Whilst I don't think it's a curse at all, I am in agreement that Demise is not reciting anything new. Just reciting old information that he too has fallen prey to. People take his words far too simplistically. "Demise says it's a curse, therefore it is". It's good to see other members looking a little deeper into this :yes:

We all know it's not a real curse. The fact still remains that he reincarnates, though.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

We all know it's not a real curse. The fact still remains that he reincarnates, though.

Care to back that up?

 

[JuicieJ]

Care to back that up?

Um... direct quotes from in the game? It appearing in two translations? Aonuma saying Ganondorf's origins would be touched on? The evidence is staring you in the face.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

Um... direct quotes from in the game? It appearing in two translations? Aonuma saying Ganondorf's origins would be touched on? The evidence is staring you in the face.

I've already answered most of them in the thread I linked. As for the translations, I'd love to see them. However if they're more "fan re-translations" I'm afraid they can't be used as evidence.

 

[JuicieJ]

I've already answered most of them in the thread I linked. As for the translations, I'd love to see them. However if they're more "fan re-translations" I'm afraid they can't be used as evidence.

Yes, and none of them held any water.

Yes they can. That fan translation was word-for-word of what the Japanese text was. The text in the American release was a paraphrase. The in-game text is actually less accurate than the fan translation lol.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

Yes, and none of them held any water.

I'd ask you to re-read them again. Given I used in-game quotes from multiple games, actual dev quotes and unused game dialogue from the text dump I'd say they held more water than you're letting on. I'm actually still waiting on you to explain why you rejected my arguments on this theory. I got a few in that thread, but for the most part I just found myself repeating counter-argument you had for some reason chosen to ignore.

Locke also surfaced another gem recently that was yet further evidence the Triforce was the pivotal force of the Zelda universe, and not this "curse" people are so hasty to adopt. I'll have to wait around for him to chime in though, as I haven't saved it anywhere. Rather interesting interview and if he does see this I'd like to thank him for showing it to me.

Yes they can. That fan translation was word-for-word of what the Japanese text was. The text in the American release was a paraphrase. The in-game text is actually less accurate than the fan translation lol.

This is like saying a fan-fic with a more realistic version of time-travel is proof of how time-travel works in OoT. They're interesting, for sure. But until Nintendo release their own word for word translation it simply can't be held as evidence. Especially given how easy it is to mis-translate Japanese to English. Until then, we'll have to assume their English version of Demise words (which they would have had somewhat of an oversight in) are canon. And not fan work. Damn I wish I could read Japanese.

I certainly hope they release a new translation of it someday. As I'd be interested to get their actual take on this and not some deeper message ridden minefield of Zelda 'origin'.

 

[JuicieJ]

I'd ask you to re-read them again. Given I used in-game quotes from multiple games, actual dev quotes and unused game dialogue from the text dump I'd say they held more water than you're letting on. I'm actually still waiting on you to explain why you rejected my arguments on this theory. I got a few in that thread, but for the most part I just found myself repeating counter-argument you had for some reason chosen to ignore.

I already did in that thread if I recall correctly. I and many others. You just refused to believe.

Locke also surfaced another gem recently that was yet further evidence the Triforce was the pivotal force of the Zelda universe, and not this "curse" people are so hasty to adopt. I'll have to wait around for him to chime in though, as I haven't saved it anywhere. Rather interesting interview and if he does see this I'd like to thank him for showing it to me.

I already said we know it's not a curse. Demise just reincarnates because he appears differently in each epoch. His hate "never perishes". Why do you keep insisting we're accepting that "curse" notion?

This is like saying a fan-fic with a more realistic version of time-travel is proof of how time-travel works in OoT. They're interesting, for sure. But until Nintendo release their own word for word translation it simply can't be held as evidence. Especially given how easy it is to mis-translate Japanese to English. Until then, we'll have to assume their English version of Demise words (which they would have had somewhat of an oversight in) are canon. And not fan work. Damn I wish I could read Japanese.

A word-for-word translation is a word-for-word translation. Just because it was by a fan doesn't make it unusable as evidence. That's silly to deny.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

I already did in that thread if I recall correctly. I and many others. You just refused to believe.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't insult the efforts I've put into getting my side of this theory across to you by implying I am defending it out of refusal to accept opposing argument. I 'believe' my theory because it makes sense to me and because opposing arguments didn't hold enough ground for me to accept them over my own. Should a decent piece of evidence arrive I will gladly accept it. My purpose in these matters is to try and unravel the truth behind these gloriously complex facets of the Zelda Universe. Not to misguide you into accepting false information as you seem to believe. If you were more analytical and less "This is how it is", I may well be able to unravel the truth with you someday.

I already said we know it's not a curse. Demise just reincarnates because he appears differently in each epoch. His hate "never perishes". Why do you keep insisting we're accepting that "curse" notion?

I was referring to such re-incarnation. I mentioned the curse as that is generally what it is referred to. Even in the knowledge that it's not a literal curse.

A word-for-word translation is a word-for-word translation. Just because it was by a fan doesn't make it unusable as evidence. That's silly to deny.

As I said earlier, Japanese to English translations are tricky enough as it is. The altering of only a few letters, either on purpose or by mistake, can result in a totally different meaning. As such it's necessary to wait until release their own translation. Which they did, in game.

If this were something simpler like a French-English translation, then yes fan translations would be perfectly acceptable in this instance. But even then you run the risk of a biased mind asserting their own shade to a translation. No matter how slight.

 

[JuicieJ]

If you were more analytical and less "This is how it is", I may well be able to unravel the truth with you someday.

I am analytic. I don't have a "this is how it is" vibe to me unless I'm 100% sure from observing evidence and using logical judgement. Otherwise I'd say it's possible it's not true and that it's just what I believe.

And this derailed quickly, huh?

 

[Vanessa28]

Enough now