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Spoiler Demise, Ganondorf, calamity, and Null

Spiritual Mask Salesman

CHIMer Dragonborn
Site Staff
The Greek gods also made stupid discussions out of emotion. Given LOZ has pulled from so many religions, would it be wrong to think they pulled from the Greeks too?
There is nothing at all to suggest Hylia was acting out of emotion in her plan to sacrifice her immortality, she did it because it was absolutely necessary. In fact, all evidence in Skyward Sword points toward Hylia being a very calculated deity that didn't act out of emotion, only logic. That's likely why Fi is the way she is, because her personality is an extension of her creator.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
It has to be an actual limitation in the design of the Triforce, not just some rule, otherwise Hylia's sacrifice to take on a mortal form was entirely pointless, and frankly a terrible decision.
Not necessarily. The reasoning behind not allowing gods to use the Triforce, and making the Triforce to not accept usage by gods would be the same. Being a limitation of the design would mean that Hylia reincarnating into mortal form, but then later still being an active deity, means that she found a loop hole. It's a clever trick on her part. But, if it is a rule that is mandated, then Hylia's reincarnation is her playing by the rules. It is never pointless for the police to operate within the law, even though there are times they can get away with breaking the law.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

CHIMer Dragonborn
Site Staff
Not necessarily. The reasoning behind not allowing gods to use the Triforce, and making the Triforce to not accept usage by gods would be the same. Being a limitation of the design would mean that Hylia reincarnating into mortal form, but then later still being an active deity, means that she found a loop hole. It's a clever trick on her part. But, if it is a rule that is mandated, then Hylia's reincarnation is her playing by the rules. It is never pointless for the police to operate within the law, even though there are times they can get away with breaking the law.
I think we'll have to just remain in disagreement, I don't think gods not being able to use the Triforce is just some suggestion of how best to use the Triforce. I think it's an actual limitation built into the design of it. A god cannot use it even if they tried to "break the law" in your analogy.

It's possible nobody bothered to remember that a god can't use the triforce
I already brought it up and that's what they are trying to argue against with me right now
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
I think we'll have to just remain in disagreement, I don't think gods not being able to use the Triforce is just some suggestion of how best to use the Triforce. I think it's an actual limitation built into the design of it. A god cannot use it even if they tried to "break the law" in your analogy.
In the end, I can see both perspectives working, so it's less that we disagree, and more that there's disagreement with one of the ideas I am entertaining. You can be completely correct, with this question, and I would be equally happy.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

CHIMer Dragonborn
Site Staff
In the end, I can see both perspectives working, so it's less that we disagree, and more that there's disagreement with one of the ideas I am entertaining. You can be completely correct, with this question, and I would be equally happy.
I don't really understand what you've presented. The only thing you have asserted so far is fabrication based on nothing. Your analogy of equating limitations of the Triforce to human made laws doesn't work at all. You said:
It is never pointless for the police to operate within the law, even though there are times they can get away with breaking the law.
So if someone robs a bank and begins speeding down the road, exceeding the speed limit, law enforcement shouldn't also exceed the speed limit? If they do they are also breaking the law, oh no!!

Obviously, their job requires them to chase the bank robber and they'll break the law and speed to do it.

If Hylia could use the Triforce as she was, as a deity, she absolutely would do it because it's her job to. It's pretty clear she literally could not, and not because of some suggested guideline to follow. If a god had the full Triforce, tried to use it to fulfill a wish, nothing would happen.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
I don't really understand what you've presented. The only thing you have asserted so far is fabrication based on nothing. Your analogy of equating limitations of the Triforce to human made laws doesn't work at all. You said:

So if someone robs a bank and begins speeding down the road, exceeding the speed limit, law enforcement shouldn't also exceed the speed limit? If they do they are also breaking the law, oh no!!

Obviously, their job requires them to chase the bank robber and they'll break the law and speed to do it.

If Hylia could use the Triforce as she was, as a deity, she absolutely would do it because it's her job to. It's pretty clear she literally could not, and not because of some suggested guideline to follow. If a god had the full Triforce, tried to use it to fulfill a wish, nothing would happen.
Police going over the speed limit in an emergency is not breaking the law. It's a job requirement. A more accurate depiction is an officer speeding because they just want to get to their location faster. It is illegal, really does happen all the time, and some officers actually get called out on it because it's not an emergency, despite most infractions being ignored.

The question of the Triforce being designed to not allow the use of gods, versus gods not being allowed access is a question of Hylia's ethics. If the limitation was designed in, Hylia becomes like the speeding cop who never got caught; she found a loophole in the design, and used it... constantly. As Commander_Has stated:
True, either She was the goddess of light. She had too be overly righteous. If she lowered her standards, as goddess, she would ruin those standards for all of time.
If the ones put in place to defend the law do not uphold and follow the law, the law becomes weak, and often meaningless.

If it's that the gods can't be allowed access, despite the Triforce having the ability to work for them, then Hylia sacrificing her divinity before making use of the Triforce becomes her operating within the law. In the cop analogy, she becomes the cop that pulls over the other speeding officer.

Looking at it this way, it does eliminate an easy answer as to who we can lable as deific. We need to bring in other metrics, like power level, religous followings, origions, and so on.

I also think using the functional ability to use the Triforce to define deity status has been used to loosly. Demise, for instance, sought to controll the Triforce, yes. But, that doesn't automatically make him not a god. The four goddesses (3 golden and Hylia) controll access to it no problem. With a literal army of loyal (however dubious the loyalty, yet still loyal enough to willingly die) mortals at his beck and call, it wouldn't matter if Demise couldn't direcly interact with the Triforce. We never see Demise interact with the Golden Relic, so we can't even be sure if he would have been denied by it, or if he would have just had Girahim make any wishes. Or, if there would have been any wishing at all, but simply cutting of access from his enemies and the world he hated.

Digging in further, if the only real classification that defines who is a god, and who is not, is who can make use of the triforce, the classification becomes very one sided. The gods are always the good guys, who let their mortals make the wishes, while the god level enteties that fight against them just aren't gods. It leads us into a situation like in the Elderscrolls, with the Daedra and Aedra. Despite them being treated very differently by the people of the lands, we are told, very bluntly, that it is a destinction of limited mortal understanding, and is meaningless in the eyes of both the Daedra and Aedra. If Demise has the power level to stand toe to toe with Hylia (a confirmed goddess), and has an unwavering following, but is disqualified from being a god because he sough to controll something not meant for him, we are very close to the term "god" being meaningless. Especally with Null having what seems to be a similar origion to the three Golden Goddesses (the very beginning), having power over relaity, and requiering all three to just contain it. Perhapes it is intended to be meaningless, save for the people that belive in that deity, especally with all of the gods as bosses we deal with through the series.

And, perhapse we are both right, in a way. If Null was that powerful, that it took all three goddesses, and a fix-it-crew, to just contain it, Link and Zelda shouldn't have had a chance against it, even with the boosts of the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage. Null also should have had a boost, equally as powerful as one pice. Unless, Null lost something in the process. What if Null was indeed of devine level, basically the God of Nothingness and Chaos. In the process of gaining the Triforce of Power, Null was not allowed to maintain it's abilites that made it a god. It was obviously cut off from it's imortality, and never even attempted to capture either Link or Zelda in the crystal again. What if Null lost even more. (By gaining something, it lost what it was.)
 

Daku Rinku

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Null can't be a god because we know based on Skyward Sword that the Triforce cannot be used by gods, according to Zelda with the reawoken memories of Hylia. I bring this up because Null ends up being able to use the Triforce.

However, I agree that Null exists as the counterbalance to the gods, but not in a sense that he is the evil to their good.

Null is niether good or evil, based on the definition of his name, but also the circumstances of his origins. (That means there is likely no connection between him and Demise.)

Null using the Triforce in the game is perhaps an extremely big plot hole, because we can't deny his power is on par with the gods in the opposite way to them. They create, whereas he is the absence of creation. This is why I can't blame someone for wanting to reason that he should be classified a god.

That said, him not being a god might have something to do with his nature of being nothingness incarnate, meaning he isn't a god, or a demon. If I remember right the game says he was the void itself rather than being something that existed separately within it. This makes him something else than the standard titles that are typically given, and that might be why the rule of "gods not being able to use the Triforce" doesn't apply to him.
But the Triforce was created by goddesses and so they cannot wield their own creation? Null is a god in sense of he is the chaos, the primordial blackness, the darkness.. he is necessary even.
 

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