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Breath of the Wild Combat in Zelda U

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Nov 1, 2012
Strangely enough, there has been lots of talk about the overworld in Zelda U, but no one has mentioned combat. From what I have read, it would appear as if they are going to keep the 1:1 sword motion controlls. However, there are other things that can be done, the first thing that comes to mind is using the touchpad to control Link's sword, perhaps this could be used if they go with multiple control schemes, the Wii Gamepad could use this. If they stay with 1:1 motion controls, then the gamepad becomes an item-device/minimap that could be used for the bow, (it actually became a viable method of combat in SS) bombs, and possible another ranged weapon like shurikens sai or kunai. :)
 

JuicieJ

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Here's an excerpt from an article I have in the works. I think it should suffice.

There are two features that I believe need to be present for Zelda's combat to be at its best, and they go as following.

First, intelligent and challenging enemies. It's no fun when an enemy is dumb as all get-out and allows you a guaranteed hit. I know there are some enemies that shouldn't be much of a challenge -- Keese and Octoroks, for example -- but more advanced enemies should not be capable of being disposed of with little to no effort. Over the course of its lifetime, Zelda has both excelled and failed at this.

All the way through the N64 games, most enemies did a pretty good job of providing a decent challenge. It didn't always take a lot of hits to kill them, but they generally respected players' skills and intelligence. Once the GameCube came onto the scene, however, that element took a turn for the worst. The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess's enemies were weak and pathetic, most dealing only 1/4th a heart of damage and only requiring lazy and mindless button mashing to be defeated. Quite obviously these games' combat systems suffered from this, and it's one of the major reasons they were often so boringly easy.

Of course, a plethora of Skyward Sword's enemies broke that trend with their 1-2 heart damage ratio, increased depth, and much-improved AI, which gave them the brains to anticipate Link's attacks and potentially block or dodge them -- sometimes both. Quite a few enemies would also punish players for trying to waggle their way to success, assuring that strategy was a necessity to stay alive (or at least not take damage). This was a great redemption, and I'm really glad it happened, but that doesn't mean I don't want even more refinements in the future. Zelda's combat absolutely has to keep improving this revived pace, otherwise it will remain at a standstill and never be able to reach its fullest potential.

Second, enemies should feature multiple ways of being defeated. There should always be a "correct" solution as to how to take a foe down, but there should also be other options to provide variety so that the combat never gets stale. This should be through things like using items in unique ways according to the various enemy designs, special abilities like the Hidden Skills from Twilight Princess and the Tiger Scrolls from The Minish Cap, and (in the case of a combat system like Skyward Sword's) taking out foes in different ways with simple sword slashes alone. These things allow different people to defeat enemies according to their own playstyles, and that's something that a series like Zelda could always use plenty of. Pretty much every Zelda game has done these sorts of things relatively well, but I think Majora's Mask, The Minish Cap, Spirit Tracks, and Skyward Sword have done the best job so far (namely with their respective control schemes), and as a result, I think future games should look to them for inspiration. It's not really something that needs a massive overhaul, as we've already seen Zelda nail its combat diversity, but we need to see the series keep nailing it in the future.
 

Ventus

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I would much rather we not deal with 1:1 type combat, as I feel that if Nintendo goes that route again, it will be a repeat of SS' "hit my obvious weakpoint here"-based gameplay and I really disliked that combat style.

So instead of that "puzzle within combat" method, I propose Nintendo gives us more COMBAT, and along with that better combat speeds. :)
 

JuicieJ

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I would much rather we not deal with 1:1 type combat, as I feel that if Nintendo goes that route again, it will be a repeat of SS' "hit my obvious weakpoint here"-based gameplay and I really disliked that combat style.

Like I said in my thread about SS's combat, it wasn't a "hit me here" system. It was a "swing in a specific direction or you won't hit me" one. Before, it was just basically run up and hit the enemy with no fear of not landing a blow. There was actual strategy required with most of SS's enemies, even if only a small amount. Besides, their entire bodies are their "weak point". A true weak point is something like a giant eye on a giant boss. Hitting an enemy in a general direction is nothing like that at all.
 
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Justac00lguy

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I dont think Zelda Wii U will feature the same combat as SS for the simple reason because they have a brand new controller and the game needs to utilise the potential success of having the gamepad, for me SS did a good job of using motion controls it's clear that it was not perfect but for me I dont think Nintendo will have us swinging round the game pad like a sword or using the Wii mote.
 
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I think Wii Motion+ will be used in Zelda U as well as the GamePad. I have a hunch the controls used in Battle Quest was a hint towards what the controls that might be used in Zelda U with a bit more involvement of the GamePad, namely the use of items that use the first person view like the bow, Hookshot, Slingshot or just for looking around the area. The Motion controls would probably be used for movement, swordplay, defending etc. but I guess they can make an option where you can only just use the GamePad on it's own and use the Analog Sticks for Movement and swordplay.
 

Justac00lguy

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I think Wii Motion+ will be used in Zelda U as well as the GamePad. I have a hunch the controls used in Battle Quest was a hint towards what the controls that might be used in Zelda U with a bit more involvement of the GamePad, namely the use of items that use the first person view like the bow, Hookshot, Slingshot etc. I think the Motion controls would be used for movement, swordplay etc. but I guess they can make an option where you can only just use the GamePad on it's own and use the Analog Sticks for Movement and swordplay.

If this is the case then I'll be using the gamepad:)
 

JuicieJ

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I think Wii Motion+ will be used in Zelda U as well as the GamePad. I have a hunch the controls used in Battle Quest was a hint towards what the controls that might be used in Zelda U with a bit more involvement of the GamePad, namely the use of items that use the first person view like the bow, Hookshot, Slingshot or just for looking around the area. The Motion controls would probably be used for movement, swordplay, defending etc. but I guess they can make an option where you can only just use the GamePad on it's own and use the Analog Sticks for Movement and swordplay.

That's what I'm thinking will be done. Honestly, if Nintendo doesn't do it, I'll be surprised. It'd be a great marketing technique, meaning more potential purchases. They'd be stupid not to do it.
 
I see traditional pre SS combat returning given the dual analog nature of the Wii U Game Pad.

I don't want use of the touchscreen to be excessive or forced but it certainly would be interesting to hurl shuriken or other similar projectiles using the Wii U Game Pad.

Foes need to be more aggressive and intelligent. In other words, I'd like enemies as bulky and threatening as Iron Knuckle and Darknut and as cunning as Skyward Sword's Lizalfos, constantly evading. parrying, and striking back. Realistic damage should also be included such as chinks in armor as damage is inflicted to both Link and the dangerous denizens he encounters.

Regarding multiple control schemes, that's something I'm not a fan of because one layout will obviously triumph over another leaving some fans discontent.
 

DarkestLink

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Well I'd like Nintendo to continue motion controls, and clearly they want to as well, but they might have to move on from those if they want higher sales.
 

JuicieJ

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Regarding multiple control schemes, that's something I'm not a fan of because one layout will obviously triumph over another leaving some fans discontent.

Not necessarily. Some people would prefer the Wii MotionPlus over the others. Some people would prefer the GamePad over the others. And some people would prefer the Pro Controller over the others. It all boils down to personal preference, and that's exactly why multiple control schemes is the way to go for Zelda Wii U.
 

Ventus

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Not necessarily. Some people would prefer the Wii MotionPlus over the others. Some people would prefer the GamePad over the others. And some people would prefer the Pro Controller over the others. It all boils down to personal preference, and that's exactly why multiple control schemes is the way to go for Zelda Wii U.

No, no, no, no, no. With specialized control schemes comes totally different gameplay, with advantages and disadvantages coming alongside each. As we've gone over in the MCS thread, there are things the WM+ can do that Gamepad can't, and vice versa. By introducing multiple schemes--and in order to make the maximum use of all the schemes--you have to water down at LEAST one of the schemes, which as far as I know isn't "maximum use". Approximation of one control scheme =/= making the most of any one scheme. It's nothing but approximation.

This carries over into combat, as the combat style would have to be one of two types: either type one where it's obviously geared towards one scheme (SS' combat is obviously based around the WM+) or type two where any scheme can excel (which really is any Zelda prior to SS, except WoG maybe). Do you really want watered down gameplay just so that motion control can be introduced? I don't want my gamepad to approximate those damn fiddly controls. :I
 
Not necessarily. Some people would prefer the Wii MotionPlus over the others. Some people would prefer the GamePad over the others. And some people would prefer the Pro Controller over the others. It all boils down to personal preference, and that's exactly why multiple control schemes is the way to go for Zelda Wii U.

That's a completely valid point but when has Nintendo incorporated multiple control schemes in a Zelda games thus far? I doubt the Pro Controller will be supported and while it's possible the immersion of Wii Motion+ will be repeated with the Game Pad for those who prefer it, Nintendo has traditionally been a company to bolster its newest displays of technology.

There's also the question of using the Wii Remote and Game Pad in conjunction which I'd like to address below.

Vaati101 said:
I think Wii Motion+ will be used in Zelda U as well as the GamePad. I have a hunch the controls used in Battle Quest was a hint towards what the controls that might be used in Zelda U with a bit more involvement of the GamePad, namely the use of items that use the first person view like the bow, Hookshot, Slingshot or just for looking around the area. The Motion controls would probably be used for movement, swordplay, defending etc. but I guess they can make an option where you can only just use the GamePad on it's own and use the Analog Sticks for Movement and swordplay.

Panorama view with the Wii U Game Pad certainly is interesting but I'd like the added bells and whistles sans the amazing touch screen to end at that. Aiming with the system's gyroscope as an archer in Battle Quest, for example, is more irksome than fun.

I'm not a proponent of multiple control outputs. If I recall correctly, Nintendo is using both the Wii Remote Plus and Wii U Game Pad for Pikmin 3 to serve for character control and a world map display, respectively, however I believe this would devolve into an awkward mess when applied to Zelda. Action-Adventure games are faster paced than their strategic counterparts and I see this as a hindrance to gameplay.

Truth be told, I can't imagine playing with the Wii Remote and Game Pad in any game. With a portable like the DS it's completely logical to observe two screens because they're adjacent to each other, one below the other but when the Game Pad is given secondary importance and I'm required to set it down somewhere albeit within view while navigating with the Wii Remote the experience loses its fluidity.
 
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I'm not a proponent of multiple control outputs. If I recall correctly, Nintendo is using both the Wii Remote Plus and Wii U Game Pad for Pikmin 3 to serve for character control and a world map display, respectively, however I believe this would devolve into an awkward mess when applied to Zelda. Action-Adventure games are faster paced than their strategic counterparts and I see this as a hindrance to gameplay.

I think this time round Nintendo might have to incorprate at least two control schemes since they want to continue using Motion controls and frankly I don't think they are just gonna focus on the GamePad and put everything on it since I don't see myself swinging the GamePad like a Sword. It's possible to use the touchscreen for swordplay, but then if they're gonna do that there's no point in turning on the TV since you are too focused on looking at the GamePad. Since people want to see Zelda U in stunning HD, and is pretty much where most of the gameplay is seen, they would want to look at the TV instead of the GamePad screen so Nintendo would have to work round that. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd rather look at the TV then the GamePad screen when playing a Wii U game.
 
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Justac00lguy

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Not necessarily. Some people would prefer the Wii MotionPlus over the others. Some people would prefer the GamePad over the others. And some people would prefer the Pro Controller over the others. It all boils down to personal preference, and that's exactly why multiple control schemes is the way to go for Zelda Wii U.

Multiple control schemes just won't work in my eyes as imagine SS with button controls it just won't work...
 

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