Spoiler Calling all Lore Nerds #2 Time Between TOTK past and OOT?

[Lambsquirt]

"Fire and Ice"

R18 Warning! - Mushroom Humor

I used Koume and Kotake in Totk Past. "Canon" as a "Datum Point".
Also, Ganon (The Gerudo Male 100 year incarnation process) "Canon". as a "Constant".

What I'm Theorizing... DO YOUR OWN MATH!


"Tears of the kingdom Past"
Rarus sealing of the "Demon King Ganondorf ".

(Koume and Kotake present, 18/19 to late 20s?)


(70 - 100 years pass)


"Skyward Sword"
Ganon next appears in his 1st Malace form (Demise/"The Imprisoned)
(Groose the "would be" incarnation of Ganon is protected by Nayru)
(The Sheika Create the "Fused Shadow" in secret)
(Koume and Kotake are possibly (90-120. Alive with "Sheika" on surface world hunting mushrooms.)


(100 years pass)


"Interloper/Civil War"
Next form of Ganons incarnation, The Sacred Realm and The Tri-force are located.
(Koume and Kotake are 170-220 encounter "Vaatai" possibly while hunting mushrooms)


(150 Years pass)


"Era Of Prosperity"
#NoGanon
(Koume and Kotake are 320-370 Mushrooms Mushrooms Mushrooms)


(50 years pass)


"Force Era"
(Vaatai the Minish)
(Koume and Kotake are 370-420 More Mushrooms, 'OOT' Ganon is Born)


(50 years pass)

(Ganons Unification War "A Ploy")

(10 years Pass)


"Hero of Time Era"
(Koume and Kotake were both wrong they are 420 - 480 Years Old! too many Mushrooms)
(OOT Ganon is in late 50s 60s)


Prove me wrong!

 

[Lambsquirt]

Pictures of Ganon, Koume and Kotake with Gerudos in TOTK (Past) for reference

Q.) What age do you think Ganon is here?
Q.) In this incarnation, could Ganon be Koume and Kotakes father?
(If Ganon is in his 40s or 50s and Koume and Kotake early 20s, they plausibly, could be his daughters.)
A sound reasoning dare I say it, for their extreme loyalty.)

 

[Dizzi]

so Ganons his own Granddad???

 

[VikzeLink]

I kinda consider BotW and TotK to be their own separate timeline that has very little to do with the lore of the rest of the series tbh.
There are only a few minor references to characters or events from previous games.

Zelda-lore is never really that consistant though. I mean, we've got at least 4 different people that all apparently live/lived in the sky, yet they've never met? That'd be the Ooccoo from TP, the Hylians on Skyloft from SS, the Wind Tribe from MC and now also the Zonai from TotK

 

[Dizzi]

Surely wll the spaceships woulda crashed into one another??

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

what exactly tells us that those two are Koume and Kotake?

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

what exactly tells us that those two are Koume and Kotake?

I believe it is based on the gems on their masks, their general stance behind Ganondorf, and I think inscriptions on the swords. That's from memory though, so feel free to correct me.

Zelda-lore is never really that consistant though. I mean, we've got at least 4 different people that all apparently live/lived in the sky, yet they've never met? That'd be the Ooccoo from TP, the Hylians on Skyloft from SS, the Wind Tribe from MC and now also the Zonai from TotK

You forgot the Minish, who originated from the sky, as well.

Though, it's not difficult to place them. There is more than enough evidence in SS to place the Zoni, based on technology and architecture, in the past of SS. We also see a similarity between the Minish and the Zoni, in their technology, abilities, appearance, history, and possibly symbolism, suggesting to me that the vanishing Zoni was due to them becoming the Minish. If we place Rauru's reign before the events of SS, it all falls into place. After the Zoni became the Minish, the humans of Hyrule were raised into the sky. After SS, Hyrule was repopulated, a group of red haired people, who have strikingly few males, return to the sky, during Minish cap. Only the Oocca are left. I save them for last because there is some historical wiggle room. They may have been around in the time of the Zoni, or came about shortly after SS.

Additanally, we don't actually know if these different groups never met. All we know is that they don't appear in the same games, and within the limited scope of those games, races not involved in those games are not mentioned.

Q.) In this incarnation, could Gannon be Koume and Kotakes father?

This is an intereasting thought. I would need more to go on, than ages, though. Either way, we can tell that the two are particularly devoted. If this is the first Ganondorf, which I think it is, it would help to explain why the two who are so devoted at this point are so determined on bringing him back all the time.

Gannon next appears in his 1st Malace form (Demise/"The Imprisoned)

I'm of the opinion that Demise and Ganondorf are seperate entetes, and are not incarnations of eachother. Based on the visuals, I think Ganondorf, in the memories, was drawing power from Demise. Also, Fi confirms the destruction of Demise's spirit, at the end of SS. I also like the idea that the sealing of TotK Ganondorf happens closer to Hylia's seeling of Demise, resulting in a greater sealing war. I do personally place Ganondorf's sealing before the emergence of Demise, though.

 

[Lambsquirt]

Awesome points of view guys!
Thanks for your ideas and speculation it is wanted on this thread!
No wrong answers, just knowledge sharing and helping us all make more solid theroies!

 

[Lambsquirt]

The Pitch is A Movie Trilogy,

First Movie,
Ganon is Hyped as the villan, But later hes revealed to be "Vaatai", (Leader of the Sheika Interlopers/Dark wizards) in disguise.

Vaatai, Steals the "Fused Shadow", (sound familiar?)
Hiding his real Identity, Conning us, "Koume and Kotake" (Their emotional attachment to Ganon their Father). Believes
Vaatai is the incarnation of their father, making us the audience and the "Twins" believe him to be Ganon.

Having the "Gerudo Army" (Best Warriors in Hyrule)
and the "Shieka Interloper Wizards" at his disposal, (Along with the Fused Shadow)

Vaatai could easily dispose of the Powers that be, (Currently in control of "Hyrule")
To locate the "Sacred Realm" and the "Tri-force" during the "Era Of Chaos",

Black Market "Zonai and Sheika" Technology could be Present, (Currently "BANNED") fitting in with timeline lore,
Being the most recent addition to the Zelda Universe this would captivate the "New fans".
While the story of the "Sheika" and "Gerudo" (Twilli and Yiga), would captivate fans from the 90,s through to TWP and BOTW,

The following could make an appearance in the Movie, Establishing "The Legend Of Zelda",
Only If..... it is set during the "Interloper/Civil War"

1. The Golden Goddesses.
2. The Tri-Force.
3. Ganons "100" Year Incarnation.
4. Koume and Kotake. (Presence in TOTK and OOT)
5. "The Hero Of Chaos". (Link)
6. Sages.
7. All Races. (Even the "Mogma" Can exist at this point without contradicting the timeline.)
8. Twinrova.
9. Banned/Black Market Sheika and Zonai Tech Simultaneously. (Breifly appers in Skyward Sword "Gate of Time")
10. The "Interlopers" and "The Fused Shadow".
11. Live action "Ninjutsu Martial Arts". (The Sheika)
12. The Depths & The Mines.
13. "Regional Sheika Towers" (Botw) Elevator system to the "Regional Mines" in the Depths (Rarus Reign).

"1st time we see Twinrova On The Big Screen"?? It Fits into the time-line EASY!

During the "Hyrulain Civil War", Koume and Kotake would be 200 years old. (the middle of their life)
At this point in time they would be at the "Peak" of their Physical and Magical abilities.

 

[Lambsquirt]

I believe it is based on the gems on their masks, their general stance behind Ganondorf, and I think inscriptions on the swords. That's from memory though, so feel free to correct me.


You forgot the Minish, who originated from the sky, as well.

Though, it's not difficult to place them. There is more than enough evidence in SS to place the Zoni, based on technology and architecture, in the past of SS. We also see a similarity between the Minish and the Zoni, in their technology, abilities, appearance, history, and possibly symbolism, suggesting to me that the vanishing Zoni was due to them becoming the Minish. If we place Rauru's reign before the events of SS, it all falls into place. After the Zoni became the Minish, the humans of Hyrule were raised into the sky. After SS, Hyrule was repopulated, a group of red haired people, who have strikingly few males, return to the sky, during Minish cap. Only the Oocca are left. I save them for last because there is some historical wiggle room. They may have been around in the time of the Zoni, or came about shortly after SS.

Additanally, we don't actually know if these different groups never met. All we know is that they don't appear in the same games, and within the limited scope of those games, races not involved in those games are not mentioned.


This is an intereasting thought. I would need more to go on, than ages, though. Either way, we can tell that the two are particularly devoted. If this is the first Ganondorf, which I think it is, it would help to explain why the two who are so devoted at this point are so determined on bringing him back all the time.


I'm of the opinion that Demise and Ganondorf are seperate entetes, and are not incarnations of eachother. Based on the visuals, I think Ganondorf, in the memories, was drawing power from Demise. Also, Fi confirms the destruction of Demise's spirit, at the end of SS. I also like the idea that the sealing of TotK Ganondorf happens closer to Hylia's seeling of Demise, resulting in a greater sealing war. I do personally place Ganondorf's sealing before the emergence of Demise, though.

Re watch "Zant meeting Ganon" in the realm of Twillight xxxx

 

[Turo602]

I kinda consider BotW and TotK to be their own separate timeline that has very little to do with the lore of the rest of the series tbh.

I've had this thought for a while because the story of Tears of the Kingdom and by extension, Breath of the Wild, is just one giant paradox. No matter where you want to put Rauru's reign on the timeline, Zelda’s presence and actions during the Imprisoning War creates a new branching timeline with a different history of Hyrule that she herself set in motion to help Link in the present time.

 

[Lambsquirt]

I'm sure we are all invested in the idea of another time line... but in this case, the case at hand, Tying Rarus Reign in a linear time line,
all the way to OOT, (Where we can all agree there is a split)
Yet to have many peoples feedback on possible contradictions for the Lore I'm suggesting..
without the communities help, how can we dream of saving LOZ and the Movie..?

Check out the following link for a simple explanation of "The 2 Master Sword Paradox".

Spoiler - Calling All Lore Nerds #4 Final Spoiler.

"The 2 Master Sword Paradox" (Canon) "A simple solution to the time paradox of the Master Swords." "Breath of the wild" & "Tears of the Kingdom", Are indeed intertwined within the same time line. #(Lets use the "Naturally Occurring Master Sword" as our "Datum Point") For the "Master Sword"...

www.zeldadungeon.net

 

[Lambsquirt]

#Side note.
Q).Do you really think after the events of TOTK (Ganondorf being sealed by Raru).
A Gerudo mother would call her son Ganon??

The "Physical Body" is still dictated to Genetics and Geographical Conditioning,

Just as you or I.

if Vaatai was Born from a Gerudo mother and Sheika Wizard, FAR from the Gerudo Desert.
fitting in with the 100 year incarnation cycle of Ganon, he can be "Ganons incarnation".
Before the Gerudo are Exiled.

The point being Vaatai can use "Dark Magic" and Can use it to trick us and Koume and Kotake (around 200 during the civil war),
into believing he is "Their" Ganon. (appearance or incarnation timing).

This is why Numan Acar is a Perfect choice to play the role of Vaatai/Ganon .

 

[Lambsquirt]

I kinda consider BotW and TotK to be their own separate timeline that has very little to do with the lore of the rest of the series tbh.
There are only a few minor references to characters or events from previous games.

Zelda-lore is never really that consistant though. I mean, we've got at least 4 different people that all apparently live/lived in the sky, yet they've never met? That'd be the Ooccoo from TP, the Hylians on Skyloft from SS, the Wind Tribe from MC and now also the Zonai from TotK

Would this suggest that they were not in the sky for long after everything was raised, not having time to establish connections?
Say 200 years pass between the Raising of "sky Islands" and the civil war?
Mogma are very Mole/Dog like.
200 Hyrulian years or human years = 6013 "Mogma" years approx. #(More than enough time for "Genetic Devolution")

Hyrulian_age = 16ln(Dog/Mogma_age) + 31.

The Following is a link to "Masaki1812"s "Mogma Statue Post" for reference.

The fifth statue in the Depths the representation of the Mogmas?

It does kind of fit the profile. Just like how some Zora evolved into the Rito, the Mogma evolved into there Dephes form. Maybe they are the same race was the Ancient Hero. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbOqz_JIKCU

zeldadungeon.net

 

[Dizzi]

This is kinda reminding me of dynorods stories...