Are Zoras Really Extinct?

[JuicieJ]

Zoras were never extinct. They became the Rito. This is directly stated in-game, and is also evidenced by they Spiritual Stone of Water symbol on their garbs. As far as them not being able to survive, well, one, they were pushed up into a much higher area, not to mention a volcano where they'd dry out, so that'd probably do some damage to their race. The other part (and what ties into that) is that they can't just live in the water. They're amphibians. They're humanoid fish. They have to come onto land at times. So, yeah. There you go. Hope that helps.

 

[KAGOME05W]

There has been some question if this game can be accepted since it was not made by Nintendo but by Capcom. There are a few inaccuracies in it that contradicts some parts of the story in other Nintendo produced games. The two types of Zora being one of then since Nintendo has never done this.

However in MM the Zora had few problems with seawater so there is probably no divide between saltwater and freshwater Zora. Just that LoZ, AoL, and ALTTP has evil fishmen Zora. OoT, MM, and TP had peaceful aquatic people Zora. And PH and ST had evil fishmen Zora again. The two never seem to exist at the same time in Nintendo made games.

Maybe the river zora is the zora's natural predator.
When there is a large population of river zora they will over hunt the zora till their food surce is almost out. Then many river zora die from starvation and the ret retire to deeper waters for better hunting. And the zora have time to repopulate.

 

[My Dear Epona]

If i remember correctly zoras (except mm which are the counterpart in everything) are sweet water creatures, and as the flood made all salt water that might caused them to evolve, now, in spirit tracks you can get the "ruto`s crown" wich is said to be passed from zora to zora wich is a clear mention of them, this could be a cameo or maybe a hint they still survive

 

[Wolf Sage]

I agree with some who say there still may have been a small community or tribe of Zora around the time of WW. What may have happened to them will likely remain unknown. It is apparent though, by Aunoma (spelling?), that the Rito carry the Zora's blood. So at least we know that a vast majority of Zora branched off and evolved to what is now the Rito.

 

[JuicieJ]

Maybe the river zora is the zora's natural predator.
When there is a large population of river zora they will over hunt the zora till their food surce is almost out. Then many river zora die from starvation and the ret retire to deeper waters for better hunting. And the zora have time to repopulate.

For all we know Nintendo just decided to stop using the River Zora (which I think is an unofficial name for them made by fans, anyway, but correct me if I'm wrong). There's no real evidence to say that there are two separate Zora species. I'm not saying one evolved into the other, I'm just saying it's possible Nintendo just decided to stop using the Zora as enemies.

 

[Satsy]

JuiceJ: Actually those same creatures have since been used in both Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.

 

[JuicieJ]

JuiceJ: Actually those same creatures have since been used in both Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.

What? I'm pretty sure the Zoras weren't in the DS games, friend or foe. (PH can't be used, as it's an alternate world.)

 

[Djinn]

For all we know Nintendo just decided to stop using the River Zora (which I think is an unofficial name for them made by fans, anyway, but correct me if I'm wrong). There's no real evidence to say that there are two separate Zora species. I'm not saying one evolved into the other, I'm just saying it's possible Nintendo just decided to stop using the Zora as enemies.

The actual division was made in the Oracle games, the two Zora species mentioned each other by that and fans have decided to continue the naming scheme.

"Don't think us noble sea Zoras the same as those savage, vulgar river Zoras!" — A sea Zora (Oracle of Ages)

You're in the wrong place if you want to complain about being attacked by a river Zora." — A sea Zora (Oracle of Ages)

The Zora King's quote in ALTTP was also used in connection to this since they are mainly seen in rivers. However they did appear in the ocean in the original LoZ.

"Wah ha ha! One pair of flippers coming up. I will give you a free bonus with your purchase. I will let you use the magic water ways of the sea folk which link lakes and rivers. When you see a whirlpool, dive into it. You never know where you'll surface! Wah ha ha!" — King Zora (A Link to the Past)

Meanwhile the titled River Zoras have later appeared in FSA resembling the ALTTP variety as both enemies and allies. They were later used in the DS games PH and ST under the name Geozard. I mentioned that in my earlier post on page one of this thread. This implies that Nintendo did not wish to drop the original Zora concept as they continued using them in games after the friendly Zoras were invented for OoT. However the Oracle games were the only time the two species existed in the same game at the same time. Before there was always one species present and the other mentioned on some small level.

 

[JuicieJ]

The actual division was made in the Oracle games, the two Zora species mentioned each other by that and fans have decided to continue the naming scheme.




The Zora King's quote in ALTTP was also used in connection to this since they are mainly seen in rivers. However they did appear in the ocean in the original LoZ.


Meanwhile the titled River Zoras have later appeared in FSA resembling the ALTTP variety as both enemies and allies. They were later used in the DS games PH and ST under the name Geozard. I mentioned that in my earlier post on page one of this thread. This implies that Nintendo did not wish to drop the original Zora concept as they continued using them in games after the friendly Zoras were invented for OoT. However the Oracle games were the only time the two species existed in the same game at the same time. Before there was always one species present and the other mentioned on some small level.

Thank you for correcting me on this.

 

[pupairo12]

For some reason I was thinking that the WW ocean was fresh water, considering it was made from rain water and the bottom of the ocean is covered with a magical dome or something so none of the sediment would mix into the water. If that were the case, they could survive. But, their chief source of food is fish I believe, so because the great sea is a fishless sea, they would be forced to evolve.

 

[JuicieJ]

For some reason I was thinking that the WW ocean was fresh water, considering it was made from rain water and the bottom of the ocean is covered with a magical dome or something so none of the sediment would mix into the water. If that were the case, they could survive. But, their chief source of food is fish I believe, so because the great sea is a fishless sea, they would be forced to evolve.

The Great Sea wasn't fishless.

 

[pupairo12]

It's rather fishless. The only fish you see are the fishmen.

 

[Fierce]

This is a subject I've put a great deal of thought into... The Zoras have in fact evolved in Wind Waker. However, I believe it was not over a long period of time... but rather quickly.
Why? It makes seemingly no sense... in a world of endless ocean, you'd assume the aquatic people of the Zora Kingdom would thrive. I'd say... perhaps not.

The Gods sealed away Hyrule for a reason. I believe, in order to ensure its existence remained a secret, the Gods transformed the Zora people into the Ritos we see in Wind Waker, giving them a new Diety to worship (Valoo). The transformation was likely gradual yet quick, and in the interm the Zora/rito hybrids likely developed the Grappling hook as a means of transportation.

Natural selection simply can't work in such a short period of time... (200 years is way too short) The gods must have set their change in motion personally.

Also, had the Zoras still existed, Jabune likely would have a society built around him. Great Fish Isle did have traces of a civilization, yet if you look at the ruins, it is clearly that of above ground cottages... not the accommodations the water dwelling Zoras would prefer.

The transformation of the Kokiri is also the work of the Gods as well. The tips of mountains are not particularly full of vegetation regularly... It was their duty to make this so. Bring life to the mountain tops.
The Rito too, perhaps changed for a purpose as well... and that is to act as a unifier between the survivors of the great flood.

That being said, this is all speculation, but I find this to be a rather reasonable possibility.

 

[Justeazy]

For some reason I was thinking that the WW ocean was fresh water, considering it was made from rain water and the bottom of the ocean is covered with a magical dome or something so none of the sediment would mix into the water. If that were the case, they could survive. But, their chief source of food is fish I believe, so because the great sea is a fishless sea, they would be forced to evolve.

No, I have to disagree with you and say JJ is right. First off, we see tons of sharks. And giant squid. Both predators. This indicates that the seas are rich with life, even if you do not see it yourself.

As far as hyrule being covered; I am fairly certain Hyrule is not the entirety of the planet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rest of the world is covered in water too... unless the great sea is held in by a forcefield to be over hyrule and only over hyrule... in which case an outside observer would theoretically see a giant floating pillar of water.... :S
And besides that, the world is fertile, meaning it's not covered in salt. And even if the sediment did mix in an insignificant amount of solvents become disolved into rain, most of it remaining on the bottom. (Try putting a tablespoon of water in a clear glass, fill it slowly with water (don't turn the water on full but rather turn it on a drip (like raindrops) and leave it for a while) when it's full there will still be salt sitting on the bottom and the majority of the water will be salt-free.)

All of this indicates that even freshwater Zoras could have survived (remember that the Zora's are not exculsive to Hyrule, either, so any from Hyrule who evolved into the Rito aren't necessarilly the only ones around.

 

[Djinn]

The Great Sea wasn't fishless.

That idea comes from something Ganondorf said at the end of the game.

I can see this girl's dreams...

Oceans...
Oceans...

Oceans...
Oceans...

Oceans as far as the eye can see.

They are vast seas...
None can swim across them...
They yield no fish to catch...

What did the King of Hyrule say?
...That the gods sealed Hyrule away?

And they left behind people who would
one day awaken Hyrule?!

It is largely considered to be a metaphor since the ocean clearly did have fish living within it, although rare and most were of the large monster variety. And that Ganondorf was alluding to the emptiness of the great sea which had no future for the Hylians. The Zora being removed from the water and remade as a people of the air might be an aspect of this sealing. The lesser deities of Jabun and Valoo seemed to know a lot about the previous world and the goddesses decision. They even guarded the pearls that would awaken the Tower of the Gods. In foresight the Gods might have decided to take the one people who would be capable of traveling deep within the ocean and learn of the secrets of the world below before a worthy hero appears, and remove them from the water. And then later remake them into a people that would never travel within or even on the water at all. Then the Rito would be the ultimate answer to the Zora possibly learning what was not meant to be learned. And keep either them or the world safe by making sure they cannot reach the bottom of the ocean. As birds they would have no interest in the deep seas, they would only be interested in the sky and traveling up in the air.