Are The Zonai a Beneficial Addition to the Series?

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

You’re completely missing the point. All of the tribes that you mentioned have some sort of explanation within the game or a previous game. We know about the previous civilization in SS because we not only see what purpose they were built for but we see what’s left of them. We already know about the wind tribe, lokomos, and Oocaa because they are literally in the game of origin. We already know about Hyrule in WW because theres an entire game released 4 years prior that takes place in Hyrule.

All of these civilizations have more to them than the Zonai did in BotW.

I get what you are saying. You don't like continuity that you need to wait for. I, on the other hand, am saying that longer runs of continuity are better, and not getting all of the answers in one game is a good thing.

 

[Daku Rinku]

I get what you are saying. You don't like continuity that you need to wait for. I, on the other hand, am saying that longer runs of continuity are better, and not getting all of the answers in one game is a good thing.

If its new to the mythos I am patient for it to develop. The truth is LoZ is fluid, I see it all as legends that can differ like a compilation of short stories by one author or more. Some connect, some don’t. I frankly hope LoZ soes not end up in bog of canon vs legends that has divided SW fans and many other fandoms. Zelda has legend in the title, so my hope is that will not happen. I am optimistic.. even though pessimism has all but consumed me like a bad mask from Termina.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I get what you are saying. You don't like continuity that you need to wait for. I, on the other hand, am saying that longer runs of continuity are better, and not getting all of the answers in one game is a good thing.

I think for me it's more that I don't see the Zonai as something that's been in the back burner for a while. Heck, they're not even the first ancient civilization the series has slotted in. If we were looking at a bunch of consistent design aesthetic and references then it would be one thing, but I doubt they existed as a concept until BotW rolled around.

 

[Vaati]

The Zelda series is not new to tribes being added out of the blue for one off games, incorperating new things to the lore, even if in the grand scheme none of it really matters. That's what we've gotten with the proper introduction of the Zonai in Tears of the Kingdom, but somehow this time around this feels very different than with past instances.

If we look back on a game like Twilight Princess, where the Twili get introduced as a sort of mirrored kingdom to Hyrule existing in a different realm, it's a similar situation where we have this new group that didn't exist before adding new layers to the lore we had before. However, I feel very differently on the Twili than I do about the Zonai. The Twili feel like a nice addition to the lore because they don't majorly disrupt anything; in fact they actually add to the lore with them being a banished tribe that invaded the Sacred Realm to obtain the Triforce.

Maybe the Oocca are a better example, coincidentally also introduced in Twilight Princess. They add more lore elements that are different than what we might have expected. Things like the character Shad saying there are theories that the Oocca actually built Hyrule simultanously with the Hylians. It's not a piece of lore that was ever hinted at before Twilight Princess, but even with it being established it still didn't change much. There were still core things like: the goddesses created the world, they left behind the Triforce, and the Triforce is the most powerful relic to exist and remains a staple in iconography and legend. Nothing about the Oocca challenges any of that.

With the Zonai things are challenged. Rauru and Mineru are the only two we get to see, limiting our interaction with the tribe. We are told the Zonai descended from the sky with secret stones gifted from the gods, and the stones amplify the abilities of those who wield them. So now we have new relics, which is fine but the Triforce has disappeared without explanation and doesn't exist on much iconography either.

Rauru's era is supposedly the founding of Hyrule, so you'd think the Triforce would get mentioned (if you believe it isn't a refounding of Hyrule after a collapse). Creating a Champion did state that Zonai ruins are supposed to depict the Triforce from an ancient perspective, resembling boars (power), owls (wisdom), and dragons (courage). But It would seem that during Rauru's time the peak of Zonai civilization in Hyrule has already diminished.

So it points to the Zonai existing outside the confines of anything established in the original lore, which is disappointing compared to the way other tribes have been introduced in the series. Like, we don't know a huge amount about the Twili, but we know a lot more about them and how they fit into history laid out in previous games than we do with the Zonai.

Overall, I feel the potential of the Zonai is greatly wasted. I feel like there could've been a way to use them to tie a lot of lore together that people are already trying to do. Things like Hylia being a Zonai and bringing their involvement with the goddesses and Triforce closer. Or having the Zonai's third eye inspiring the Sheikah tribe's eye design on their foreheads.

What do you all think? Do the Zonai add to the lore, or do they just confuse things more than it needs to be?

No. Having Elvis' face on the happy mask salesman's bag was a good addition. not a bunch of furries

 

[thePlinko]

I get what you are saying. You don't like continuity that you need to wait for. I, on the other hand, am saying that longer runs of continuity are better, and not getting all of the answers in one game is a good thing.

I like continuity that actually has a point in the game that it’s in and doesn’t just exist to be half-assed theory bait. You can not give all of the answers while also making what you do give actually interesting, it’s not that hard.

 

[Daku Rinku]

No. Having Elvis' face on the happy mask salesman's bag was a good addition. not a bunch of furries

Elvis lives! He just went to Termina.

 

[Vaati]

That’s exactly what I’m saying. In BotW they were completely pointless.

Well, they were added in BOTW so we could see that they didn't just appear from nowhere. They had been there, but their civilization was just a little bit... Decrepit.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

I think for me it's more that I don't see the Zonai as something that's been in the back burner for a while. Heck, they're not even the first ancient civilization the series has slotted in. If we were looking at a bunch of consistent design aesthetic and references then it would be one thing, but I doubt they existed as a concept until BotW rolled around.

I'm not saying that the Zonai, as we understand them now, were always part of the plan. I am saying that the games have been playing with the shape of an ancient people from the sky, who are closer to the gods, more technologically advanced, and are tied to Hyrule's very existence. The Zonai are a relatively new development that poses itself to be form finally given to that vague shape.

The real question, for the future games, is if the Zonai remain in their ancient thrones, or if they get tossed out for a different group to fill the slot. We can guess, but only time will tell.

I like continuity that actually has a point in the game that it’s in and doesn’t just exist to be half-assed theory bait. You can not give all of the answers while also making what you do give actually interesting, it’s not that hard.

What's the alternative? No evidence of the Zonai in the previous game? then, when we get to TotK, the ruins have always been around, and we have always known about them? Pop them out of nowhere? That, my friend, would have been leagues worse. We've seen it before, and it's a sign of either lazy writing, or being unsure if there will even be a next entry. Foreshadowing is an awesome tool, and when stories are being written across multiple entries, it's great to put them in earlier releases, then reveal them later.

Well, they were added in BOTW so we could see that they didn't just appear from nowhere. They had been there, but their civilization was just a little bit... Decrepit.

Exactly!

Foreshadowing.

 

[thePlinko]

What's the alternative? No evidence of the Zonai in the previous game? then, when we get to TotK, the ruins have always been around, and we have always known about them? Pop them out of nowhere? That, my friend, would have been leagues worse. We've seen it before, and it's a sign of either lazy writing, or being unsure if there will even be a next entry. Foreshadowing is an awesome tool, and when stories are being written across multiple entries, it's great to put them in earlier releases, then reveal them later.

You mean like how the floating islands and depths all appeared out of nowhere?

The alternative is to not make their original appearance consist of absolutely nothing of value. You want me to care about them? Give me a hook. Give them some sort of attribute that makes them stand out from literally every other generic “ruins” in the game.

Simply saying that they exist and leaving it at that isn’t “forshadowing.” It’s just theory baiting.

 

[Vaati]

You mean like how the floating islands and depths all appeared out of nowhere?

The alternative is to not make their original appearance consist of absolutely nothing of value. You want me to care about them? Give me a hook. Give them some sort of attribute that makes them stand out from literally every other generic “ruins” in the game.

Simply saying that they exist and leaving it at that isn’t “forshadowing.” It’s just theory baiting.

Well, they just needed to fall from the sky.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

You mean like how the floating islands and depths all appeared out of nowhere?

The alternative is to not make their original appearance consist of absolutely nothing of value. You want me to care about them? Give me a hook. Give them some sort of attribute that makes them stand out from literally every other generic “ruins” in the game.

Simply saying that they exist and leaving it at that isn’t “forshadowing.” It’s just theory baiting.

One thing we can both agree on, is that there could have been improvements. Just because there could have been improvements, though, doesn't mean that it's not an improvement to what we've already seen. And, just because some people feel baited by the foreshadowing, doesn't mean the ruins in BotW were any less foreshadowing.

 

[thePlinko]

One thing we can both agree on, is that there could have been improvements. Just because there could have been improvements, though, doesn't mean that it's not an improvement to what we've already seen. And, just because some people feel baited by the foreshadowing, doesn't mean the ruins in BotW were any less foreshadowing.

They weren't foreshadowing. That's not how foreshadowing works. Like, at all. Foreshadowing is indicating or implying at a future event. Generic ruins and a completely meaningless name are neither an indication nor an implication of a future event.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

They weren't foreshadowing. That's not how foreshadowing works. Like, at all. Foreshadowing is indicating or implying at a future event. Generic ruins and a completely meaningless name are neither an indication nor an implication of a future event.

Sounds like we read very different literature. Not all foreshadowing requires a character to look into the fourth wall, and tell us that the thing will be important later. Many of the best uses, in my opinion, are easily missed, then we are reminded about it when it pops up again. For that mater, many people took the mere presence of the ruins, and a few people in game researching said ruins, as that implying future relevance. On top of that, as I have said before, what we did get, enough or not, is still more foreshadowing and continuity than we have gotten in previous games. We could tell that there was a history present in the world before that history was, quite literally, dropped on us.

 

[thePlinko]

Sounds like we read very different literature. Not all foreshadowing requires a character to look into the fourth wall, and tell us that the thing will be important later.

literally nobody said or even implied otherwise.

Many of the best uses, in my opinion, are easily missed, then we are reminded about it when it pops up again.

Easily missed means subtle, not nonexistent. Me saying "Wonder Bread" yesterday does not foreshadow me making a sandwich today.

For that mater, many people took the mere presence of the ruins, and a few people in game researching said ruins, as that implying future relevance. On top of that, as I have said before, what we did get, enough or not, is still more foreshadowing and continuity than we have gotten in previous games. We could tell that there was a history present in the world before that history was, quite literally, dropped on us.

"They might use this in the future" is not foreshadowing.

You want an example of actual foreshadowing? The first Professor Layton trilogy. All throughout the second game, and to a lesser extent the first one, there is dialogue about how the Professor refuses to take off his hat. It's a distinct attribute, albeit one that's subtle enough to be considered a weird quirk and nothing more. Maybe you could theorize why that is, but it clearly wasn't the point to do so. They then follow this up by heavily reiterating the fact that he doesn't remove his hat in the third game before finally revealing the exact reason why. This is foreshadowing because it not only shows that the event in question exists, but also has some sort of thematic connection to the event.

Trying to call the Zonai's presence in BotW "foreshadowing" would be like trying to say that the mere existence of the Professors hat was foreshadowing the reveal of how he obtained it.

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

oh man people definitely overuse the word foreshadowing
especially when it comes to those new disney tv shows
gravity falls was full of great foreshadowing and now everyone who watches owl house/amphibia/star/etc is like "this is clearly foreshadowing!"

probably some of that going on here too