Anti-Goddesses?

[Zemen]

in every religion there is good and evil (God and the Devil).

the history of Hyrule and the religion shown in the game only ever really talks about the Goddesses, so my question is "are there any devils to counteract the Goddesses?"

and before you start shooting out Ganon/dorf and Majora as answers, those are demons, not devils, and none of them are ever said to rule the underworld but we know that the goddesses rule the heavens, so who is the enemy of the Goddesses? you cant have good without evil and this is constantly proven throughout the series by the everlasting battle between Link/Zelda and Ganon/dorf.

we see tons of Gods and always hear legends about the Goddesses but where is the Devil or Devils?

what do you guys think about this?

 

[DvSag]

I believe Koume and Kotake are the closest things to the anti-Godesses.

They summon not only a buttload of monsters throughout the entire series, but they gave birth to Ganondorf, the king of all evil.

 

[Zemen]

I believe Koume and Kotake are the closest things to the anti-Godesses.

They summon not only a buttload of monsters throughout the entire series, but they gave birth to Ganondorf, the king of all evil.

they really only ever appear in 3 games (OoX Linked, OoT, MM) that i know of and i dont really ever think of them as being super powerful. they were pretty easy to beat in OoT and in MM they werent even bad guys. its hard to consider them the anti-goddesses if they arent even pure evil. also, they didnt give birth to Ganondorf. they are his SURROGATE mothers.

 

[DvSag]

they really only ever appear in 3 games (OoX Linked, OoT, MM) that i know of and i dont really ever think of them as being super powerful. they were pretty easy to beat in OoT and in MM they werent even bad guys. its hard to consider them the anti-goddesses if they arent even pure evil. also, they didnt give birth to Ganondorf. they are his SURROGATE mothers.

http://glossary.adoption.com/surrogate-mother.html

And no, they may or may not be entirely evil in MM, but they did some pretty evil stuff in every other game they were in. You also can't really count MM as... completely canon, either. It's like some sort of wacky world, like LA, that only has a true effect on Link, and may or may not effect any of the "real" world, aka: Hyrule.

The Goddesses aren't even mentioned all that much more when compared to Twinrova so... that's my best response.

Twinrova =/= Godesses

 

[Zemen]

surrogate can also mean substitute and that is the likely definition used in OoT because no true mother was ever spoken of and it makes his past seem more ominous knowing that hes an orphan. he could have been abandoned which would help explain why he has so much hatred.

also, regardless of who is mentioned more, the Goddesses are all powerful. in religion, God is all powerful and the Devil is almost his exact opposite in the way that he basically controls evil.

Twinrova doesnt strike me as all powerful evil controlling. they definitely are not at all my first choice for being the Devil of the Zelda series and they probably wouldnt even be on my list of possibilities.

as i said before, they only appear in three games (i guess for if you play the linked version of OoX in both orders) and only in two of those games are they evil and even then they dont do very evil things. name one terrible thing they did. in OoT all they did was reside in whatever temple they were in to wait to try and stop Link. in OoX all they did was try to revive Ganon. they never went out and killed people or plagued villages. they definitely arent that evil. Ganon/dorf is a million times more evil than them and so is Majora and i still dont think they are evil enough to be considered the Devil in LoZ.

 

[Amelie]

I always for some reason thought Din was evil. I mean. How does Ganon just always manage to get the Triforce of power. Honestly... isn't it a bit ... odd?

If Din is not evil (which Im not sure if she is or is not.. just a idea) then I really have no idea who the devil could be. I know we cant pick Ganondorf... but he really is the closest thing to Satan in Zelda games. It never mentions another dark force from the heavens.

 

[DvSag]

Ok, well you know what, Zemen? You havn't given a single example of who YOU feel fits the role; so how about you stop trying to snuff out every one of my ideas and come up with your own?

Seriously. Have some respect.

 

[Kybyrian]

Even though you said don't shoot out Ganon/Ganondorf at the beginning post of the thread, I still say Ganon/Ganondorf, but not Majora. Majora is simply something inside of the mask... or the mask, I guess. Ganondorf is just pure evil, and basically wants to control the power of the goddesses to take over the world and yada yada yada. Closest I can get.

Also, can you guys(Zemen and DvSag) stop posting back and forth? It's against the rules.

 

[Zemen]

I always for some reason thought Din was evil. I mean. How does Ganon just always manage to get the Triforce of power. Honestly... isn't it a bit ... odd?

this has been said by a lot of people but its also been stated in another thread by someone else that the Goddesses dont decide who gets the Triforce pieces. the pieces, themselves, pick their holder. the ToW will obviously want the wisest person (Zelda), the ToC will obviously want the bravest person (Link) and the ToP will obviously want the one with the most power (Ganon/dorf). we dont know that the Goddesses are the ones who decide who gets what piece. they are also not as powerful as we believe them to be because if they were then instead of flooding Hyrule they would have just killed Ganon/dorf on their own will or they wouldve have just taken the ToP from him but its pretty apparent that they dont decide who gets the pieces.

If Din is not evil (which Im not sure if she is or is not.. just a idea) then I really have no idea who the devil could be. I know we cant pick Ganondorf... but he really is the closest thing to Satan in Zelda games. It never mentions another dark force from the heavens.

why would a dark force be from heaven? i understand that the Devil is a fallen angel but it doesnt have to be the same in Zelda. im just saying, if there are Goddesses why arent there Devilesses (is that a word?)?

 

[blackice_cc]

Like Ky, I still would say Ganondorf is the best for that role. I mean, there is no hint of an "underworld" even existing for him to be king of, so that isn't much of a reason to say he can't be. I mean, he's the King of Evil, he's covered Hyrule in darkeness at least a few times, and he certainly controls lots of evil minions. And you, Zemen, said that the Goddesses can't be extremely powerful, as they would've just killed Ganon/dorf. Which means that he could be quite the opposition to them.

As for it being Din, well, I highly doubt that. She is a Goddess for one. Also, Zemen mentioned that it's more likely that the Triforce chooses it's bearer, rather than the Goddesses dividing it out. Someone in OoT, I think Sheik, said that "If one with an evil heart touches the Triforce,they will only keep the part they most believe in" or something implying that at least. So Ganondorf, having touched the Triforce, and having an evil heart, was able to keep only one Triforce, and he obviously believed in Power the most. Din didn't have anything to do with that.

 

[DvSag]

For the record, Satan does NOT have all the powers that God has.

Any time Satan comes into play, he never kills people, he never converts people, he never personally causes harm to anyone. He only persuades. In the book of Job, God casts all those horrible things upon Job, Satan just made the bet. In the story of Creation, Satan doesn't force the apple into Adam and Eve's mouths, he shows up as a snake and (successfully) attempts to persuade them to eat the fruit of the forbidden tree.

Looking for a deity of equal power to rival the three Goddesses would be futile.

The closest thing we have is Twinrova, and Majora (who, I just remembered, was probably worshipped like a God herself.)

 

[Zemen]

i never said that the Devil has all of the powers of God. i just said that he's God's opposite. the Goddesses dont have an opposite. once again, Twinrova are not the devil in the series. i seriously have no idea what even put that into your head. there are level bosses in the game that are much stronger than they are and they never try to persuade people to follow Ganondorf which raises another point. THEY WORSHIP GANONDORF. correct me if im wrong but the devil doesnt worship anyone but himself so if twinrova are supposed to be the anti goddesses then why do they worship someone as if he was a god? makes no sense. they dont seem very powerful to me. they dont seem very evil to me at all. and for the record, MM is canon whether you like it or not. they arent evil in MM. they just dont strike me as devil material. Majora is a demon, not the devil. there is a difference.

if you want my stance i guess i kind of changed my mind on the ganon/dorf thing. although they just call ganon a mere demon it seems likely that he is the devil of the series. he is usually in their scriptures as the ultimate evil so its likely he is the devil of the series. also, in regards to who decides the bearer of the triforce, when evil touches the triforce and makes a wish, wouldnt the goddesses just stop the wish if they didnt like it? they dont do this which means tha the triforce is more powerful than them. kinda weird that they can make something stronger than them.

 

[Mike Pothier]

The closest thing I saw in the games to an evil deity was Majora. Not every God/Goddess has an opposite. Biblically, the Devil is not the opposite of God, just a wayward son. Anyway, why Ganon always ends up with Triforce of Power is probably due to fate. I don't see any indication that Din is evil either. Typically, Gods/Goddesses like to play with the fates of mortals, like chess pieces.

For the record, Satan does NOT have all the powers that God has.

Any time Satan comes into play, he never kills people, he never converts people, he never personally causes harm to anyone. He only persuades. In the book of Job, God casts all those horrible things upon Job, Satan just made the bet. In the story of Creation, Satan doesn't force the apple into Adam and Eve's mouths, he shows up as a snake and (successfully) attempts to persuade them to eat the fruit of the forbidden tree.

Actually, if you read the text, it WAS Satan that caused all the horrible things on Job. God merely removed his protection. But thats just a nitpick.

 

[Zemen]

The closest thing I saw in the games to an evil deity was Majora. Not every God/Goddess has an opposite. Biblically, the Devil is not the opposite of God, just a wayward son. Anyway, why Ganon always ends up with Triforce of Power is probably due to fate. I don't see any indication that Din is evil either. Typically, Gods/Goddesses like to play with the fates of mortals, like chess pieces.

well put. one of the main reasons i dont say Majora is because he seems to be more associated with Termina than Hyrule and Hyrule seems to have seperate beliefs seeing as how the Terminians worship the 4 Giants as their Gods.

 

[DvSag]

i never said that the Devil has all of the powers of God. i just said that he's God's opposite. the Goddesses dont have an opposite. once again, Twinrova are not the devil in the series. i seriously have no idea what even put that into your head. there are level bosses in the game that are much stronger than they are and they never try to persuade people to follow Ganondorf which raises another point. THEY WORSHIP GANONDORF. correct me if im wrong but the devil doesnt worship anyone but himself so if twinrova are supposed to be the anti goddesses then why do they worship someone as if he was a god? makes no sense. they dont seem very powerful to me. they dont seem very evil to me at all. and for the record, MM is canon whether you like it or not. they arent evil in MM. they just dont strike me as devil material. Majora is a demon, not the devil. there is a difference.

You just, like, totally shot down your own thread with that last post! lol
What is left to debate if you just yourself admit that there is no answer to any of these questions?

And seriously, lay off on absolutely bashing everyone else's ideas.
You wanted thoughts, and we're giving them to you, and we all know there are only so many answers we can come up with, so why are you never satisfied? Why must you constantly be against everyone?