Accurate Hylian (Language(s))

[T Edoc]

I decided to post in the Theory section for what you'll read in this post.


There are 3 known readable Hylian languages :

• One in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask (fan-called the 'Old Hylian Syllabic')
• One in The Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and other games of the Adult Timeline (fan-called 'New Hylian Syllabic')
• One in Twilight Princess (fan-called 'Hylian Alphabet')

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Hylian_Language



While official translations sheets for the two last languages have been provided (sometimes only in the manual of the japanese version of the game), I've read that no official translation sheet exists for the first language (Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask).


But it seems like we can translate it anyway, since people – including me – did so with translations sheets found on Internet. As with the Wind Waker language, the Ocarina of Time texts translate to Katagana Japanese symbols. Katagana is a group of syllabic symbols invented by the Japanese people mostly to write words from other languages – mostly english from what a friend who had japanese lessons told me.


The Wind Waker language works exactly the same way : texts translate to Katagana.


So here are my questions for you :

• Who published that reliable translation sheet for Ocarina of Time / Majora's Mask hylian language?
• Why is the Wind Waker language refered to be an ''Old Language'' which almost nobody understands by the time of Wind Waker, if the symbols are way different to the Ocarina of Time language (even if you find similar symbols, they won't have similar pronounciation, really...)?
• Do most – or every - of the Katagana words of both those languages are ''broken english words'' (such as ''Sukaiwaado'' for ''Skyward'' or ''Kakariko Rein'' for ''Kakariko Lane'' – that last one is accurate, I translated it myself with my friend)?

Sorry if this post is long and complex. I didn't find a way to shorter and simplify it. :-/

 

[Djinn]

I believe that someone might have already linked this before but I might as well add it too. Omniglot.com has the sets of Hylian, the Wind Waker, the Old Hylian, and the font used in Twilight princess.

Modern WW
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hylian2.htm

Old Hylian of OoT
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hylian.htm

Font from TP
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hylian3.htm

Now I actually have no idea who specifically made the translations. A guide that translated the Hylian language to Japanese was published with OoT years ago. I imagine it was fan work to translate the Hylian text to English using that same guide. Something similar was printed with Wind Waker years later. Kasuto.net has been working on various Hyrule languages for years using these alphabets provided so they might be able to give a better answer on who might have made the translations.
http://www.kasuto.net/language.php?main=language/introduction.html

As for the difference in alphabets between OoT to the old Hylian of Wind Waker. A large amount of time passed, long enough for the era of OoT Link to fall into legend before even the Great flood. While WW took place centuries later. There is enough time for a written language to evolve into something different. Normally this happens when written language technology evolves. From a hard angled lettering meant to be carved into stone or wood easily to a very soft and curvy lettering meant to be written by a brush or something similar. Creation of things like printing technology can also change exactly how letters are shaped. And give a few generations of said change and the people are using a totally different written script.

We also have to realize that Hyrule is not just inhabited by one group of people. There are Hylians, Gorons, Zora, Gerudo, and Sheikah. Each might have their own specific form of writing, with some falling out of favor over others depending on who is in power, what language is taught to more people, what is more available to be learned, etc. There are too many factors that can cause there to be multiple scripts and methods of writing them.

And I am not too sure what you are asking with the third question. But from what I understand I believe that the Japanese creators of the game will make the Hylian language more easily readable and pronounceable to a Japanese audience. And leave the English localization to the English translators. Also many if not most of the developers might not even know English and this might be the best they could do when simply looking up translated words. No translation from someone not fluent is 100% correct.

 

[Pinecove]

Most things in OoT do NOT translate to anything. The only ones that do that make sense are "lon lon Milk" and "Welcome to Kakariko Lane."

TP's language is a retcon of OoT's (shown as the TP language exists in the acient temple of time).
TWW's language is something which most likely changed just as the flood was occurring. The dialect however would have changed after the flood as the ancient language (on things like the Hylian coins in ST, or the language which the GDT speaks) is the same as the writing on things on windfall, albiet Link doesn't understand the GDT.

Also, just for the record, art style doesn't affect language as TP was originally going to be after TWW while a realistic game, and it still had TWW language.

We also have to realize that Hyrule is not just inhabited by one group of people. There are Hylians, Gorons, Zora, Gerudo, and Sheikah. Each might have their own specific form of writing, with some falling out of favor over others depending on who is in power, what language is taught to more people, what is more available to be learned, etc. There are too many factors that can cause there to be multiple scripts and methods of writing them.

The Goron language is much different from the Hylian language as we see in TP:

 

[T Edoc]

And I am not too sure what you are asking with the third question. But from what I understand I believe that the Japanese creators of the game will make the Hylian language more easily readable and pronounceable to a Japanese audience. And leave the English localization to the English translators. Also many if not most of the developers might not even know English and this might be the best they could do when simply looking up translated words. No translation from someone not fluent is 100% correct.

No, what I mean is not only that they use Katagane symbols to write down english words, but that some words didn't exist in Japanese and thus were borrowed to other languages, mostly english. Those borrowed words are written with Katagana. An example is the word 'bread' in Japanese. My friend told me the word 'bread' didn't exist so the Japanese just took the word from french (which is ''pain'').
Like Pinecove said, the few redable things in OoT say things like 'Uerukamu' (Welcome) and Milk (which I guess is written 'Miruku' or such). These are strictly english words. So does that mean the words 'Welcome', 'Lane' and 'Milk' didn't exist in original Japanese until they meet english people? Or does that only mean the creators of the game cared of their english audience?

TWW's language is something which most likely changed just as the flood was occurring. The dialect however would have changed after the flood as the ancient language (on things like the Hylian coins in ST, or the language which the GDT speaks) is the same as the writing on things on windfall, albiet Link doesn't understand the GDT.

Oh yes, you're right. I hadn't though of that. So the symbols would still be used, but what the Deku Tree and the others speak is an older language written using the same symbols anyway. Just like most of the occidental languages use the same alphabet (latin) but can't understand each other anyway, yes it makes sense.

Most things in OoT do NOT translate to anything.

A I U E O, HA HI HU HE HO, SA SI SU SE SO... Yeah, I agree. XD

It's still possible other languages influenced how OoT hylian became WW hylian, as said by Djinn. Gorons and Zoras have their own languages, as shown in Majora's Mask, as Gerudo seem to do too. Side-topic, I already said it somewhere but here I go again, why in the world do the Gerudo symbols (Spirit Temple, OoT) look like 'Old Hylian Language' as depicted in ALttP? Just because both are inspired of Ancient Egyptian?

 

[Pinecove]

hy in the world do the Gerudo symbols (Spirit Temple, OoT) look like 'Old Hylian Language' as depicted in ALttP? Just because both are inspired of Ancient Egyptian?

They look more like the symbols in arbiter's grounds:

Top = Gerudo Temple, Bottom = Arbiter's grounds.

Edit:

Like Pinecove said, the few redable things in OoT say things like 'Uerukamu' (Welcome) and Milk (which I guess is written 'Miruku' or such). These are strictly english words. So does that mean the words 'Welcome', 'Lane' and 'Milk' didn't exist in original Japanese until they meet english people? Or does that only mean the creators of the game cared of their english audience?

Milk is a word in Japanese. I don't think it's Miruku however...

Edit Edit:

It can be said 'miruku,' or 'gyuunyuu.' So some of the translations do work.

 

[T Edoc]

They look more like the symbols in arbiter's grounds

Of course they do. But I find there are similarities between that desert writing and the unreadable (without Mudora Book) language on stones in ALttP.

Milk is a word in Japanese. I don't think it's Miruku however...
Edit Edit:
It can be said 'miruku,' or 'gyuunyuu.' So some of the translations do work.

'Milk' certainly can't be a word in Japanese since Japanese works with syllabic symbols afaik. I just took my logic and said 'Miruku' cause it seems like they mostly use the syllabs containing 'U' when they need to write a lone consonnant, and there's no difference between 'R' and 'L' sounds for them.
'Gyuunyuu' is probably their original Japanese word for 'Milk'. So...it would hint that they used actual english words in OoT, instead of using Japanese words. Why?

 

[Jarsh]

^
Isn't it possible "miruku" is a loan word? Japanese uses lots of them.

 

[Pinecove]

No no. The word for "Milk" in Japanese can be pronounced as "Miruku."
It's a pun.

More commonly however it is "gyuunyuu." which can also mean "dad" under the right circumstances.

 

[Jarsh]

A loanword (or loan word) is a word borrowed from one language and incorporated into another.

"Milk" isn't a Japanese word so they must have borrowed it from another language. That's what I mean.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/A loa...m one language and incorporated into another.

 

[T Edoc]

I agree. They didn't invent a word for 'milk' that strangely sounds like the one the brittanic people invented...didn't they?