ZD Members Vs. Mods Game Thread

[Justac00lguy]

So Vergo, what about the Cult Leader + followers? I mean this could potentially be the tipping point in either ours or Mafia's favour. I would hope they would at least to attempt to scum hunt.

I do agree though, @icus and Big Octo would be prime choices for today. I'm still most suspicious of Thareous, but I'm willing to compromise to work as a team here.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

So wait... let me get this straight. You're suspicious of me simply because I haven't claimed? And therefore that makes me scum simply because others have been confirmed and have claimed? Dude, mass-claiming in a mafia game is a complete joke, so I don't see how claiming will automatically prove my innocence. I don't understand why you're so adamant about the notion of me being scum when you have no evidence against me, other than my inactivity (which I've explained) and the fact that I haven't claimed.

No, you misunderstand me. I completely concede the fact that I have no evidence or anything against you. You’ve played a quiet, careful game, which is why I think mafia has dominated up to this point. As I said, you’ve simply been left behind in the process of elimination. I’m very nearly certain that JC, Deku, and Heroine aren’t mafia due to backed up claims and confirmations. That leaves you among five other people, four of who are scum. I have reason to believe, quite strongly, that you’re not that one remaining townie.

I can’t really argue with you here, as there’s nothing left to say. Sorry if it seems unfair, but again, that’s the advantage the town has right now – process of elimination.

So Vergo, what about the Cult Leader + followers? I mean this could potentially be the tipping point in either ours or Mafia's favour. I would hope they would at least to attempt to scum hunt.

I definitely think that they want to scum hunt, because the game is over if a mafioso doesn’t die today. I can see no reason why cult members wouldn’t go along with lynching either Big Octo or Atticus, both who seem very likely to be mafia at this point. It’s do or die for everyone but the mafia right now, cult and leader included.

I do agree though, @icus and Big Octo would be prime choices for today. I'm still most suspicious of Thareous, but I'm willing to compromise to work as a team here.

This is good. I’m thinking that we lynch Big Octo today, as Pendio thought it was a good idea yesterday. I’m assuming Pendio would hold the same opinion today, as he didn’t change his vote yesterday.

 

[Justac00lguy]

This is good. I’m thinking that we lynch Big Octo today, as Pendio thought it was a good idea yesterday. I’m assuming Pendio would hold the same opinion today, as he didn’t change his vote yesterday.

Hmm but isn't Pendio one of your main suspicions?

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Hmm but isn't Pendio one of your main suspicions?

I'm not saying we lynch Big Octo just because we take Pendio's word for it, but rather because he seems like the best candidate that we can all agree on for now.

 

[DekuNut]

@JC I'll explain ALiT first. If you read the post-game banter in Fate/Zero, you can see how I threatened to bandwagon the last scum this game. That was him. It was a joke vote, and so my apology was because I didn't mean for him to die.
Beyond that, don't blame me for using spotty evidence on Keith. We had nothing and nobody else had any ideas. Don't forget that he was never town allied anyway.
My hope for a tie was just like I asked for it: it was petty obvious that the game was split. I had few suspicions on Fig, but I still wasn't sure. A tie was the easiest way for this to break up.
My focus on you was because I was unsure of your claim and your own distrust of me didn't help. I'm still not sure, but we have other people to look at now, and, if we can get more info from Heroine, it'll make it easier for me to trust you, as will Vergo if he makes me able to trust him. What's your view on this purposed alliance?

@Vergo
Nice to know that you trust me, and I see your reasoning. But, before I hammer with you, I have one question:
Why should I trust you?
I don't care if your town or cult, but why aren't you scum? We can't afford to trust anyone right now. But, if none of us are scum, then or squad has more power than the scum. I want this to happen, but I need good reasoning first.

@Heroine
I see that you are also one of Vergo's chosen. What is your view on him, why should I trust you, and share a little more on why JC should be trusted. You are his biggest supporter after all.

Overall, I think that now is the time to act. Town and Cult need to become one now, or else we all die.

 

[Ronin]

No, you misunderstand me. I completely concede the fact that I have no evidence or anything against you. You’ve played a quiet, careful game, which is why I think mafia has dominated up to this point. As I said, you’ve simply been left behind in the process of elimination. I’m very nearly certain that JC, Deku, and Heroine aren’t mafia due to backed up claims and confirmations. That leaves you among five other people, four of who are scum. I have reason to believe, quite strongly, that you’re not that one remaining townie.

I'm gonna have to stop you here for a moment, because Heroine has not provided a claim to confirm her role; she only made a statement that she could "prove" Justa was Town and left it at that. For the time being, I wouldn't put too much stock on her; she's also played it safe, arguably more than Big Octo or Atticus did Yesterday, so for all you know she could be scum. At this point it would literally be detrimental to let even one Mafioso fly under the radar. To you, what are the chances of Heroine being scum alongside Bocto and Atty, and why would you leave her out?

And what about you, Vergo? For the most part you've laid back more than almost anyone, and didn't really join in on the circumstances at hand until Day 4. Nor have you been confirmed or even hinted at your own role. Now we've reached the Day that could decide our survival, so of course you'd want to unite those whose roles have more or less been confirmed (with the obvious exception of one).

Before the previous Day ended, I had argued with Justa at length about him and Heroine possibly sharing a connection, but now it seems that I was fairly off the mark with that supposition. I'm more certain that Vergo and Heroine are actually in league somehow, but whether it's through Mafia or Cult ties I don't know. The only sure thing I can say is that we definitely should not disregard both of them Today, either.

Again, I'd be more than happy to commit to a full roleclaim, but I'll hold back on that for now in case a mislynch is about to happen and the suspect will need to redeem themselves.

 

[Justac00lguy]

Honestly I'd really like to hear from Heroine (referring to what she did in the night) before I continue.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Why should I trust you?

Glad to know you’re open to this. I know it’s shaky from your point of view to trust anyone, but here’s the best I can come up with:

Do you really like that any mafia member would attempt a rally like this at the last possible second? Look at this entire game so far – not a single mafia member has been found, and I believe this to be because of the mafia’s overall lack of activity during the day. If my past few posts haven’t done a good job of conveying desperation, then I’ve failed on that front. What good would it do the mafia, to attempt to forge something together like this? JC claimed, and Heroine said that her role has somehow allowed her to confirm that what JC spoke was the truth. I’m getting the feeling that JC is trusting me this time, just because he knows that if this alliance doesn’t happen…… there’s zero chance of anything but a mafia victory.

No, seriously, think about that: What’s the alternative to this? Blundering around, accusing each other of not being active? We absolutely must have a plan here, or we’re going to lose, no question about it. So really, it’s either we lose today due to the mafia successfully confusing us and dividing us (with is what Thareous is going above, quite ironically) or we take a chance with each other, and see if we can salvage this game. Again, do you really, really think I’m more likely to be mafia than Big Octo?

I guess it comes down to this – do you think you have a better shot at winning by voting off-the-wall into the dark by yourself? Or do you think you have a better chance of winning by trusting us, here at the end? That’s the best thing I can propose to you.

To you, what are the chances of Heroine being scum alongside Big Octo and Atty, and why would you leave her out?

Thareous, I really don’t have much to say to you except for this: If Heroine AND JC’s claims were fake (which makes literally no sense, why would TWO mafia members fake claim when they have such an advantage?), where’s the counter-claim? Where’s the counter-claim of not only the role, but also the character (In JC’s case)?

To think that Heroine is scum, you absolutely have to believe that JC is scum as well. Why on earth would she stop the JC lynch if JC was town? That’s not only a stupid play, but a strategy that doesn’t help mafia at all. And if you really think JC and Heroine are both mafia, then look at the sentences above: It doesn’t add up for them both to be mafia.

Better yet, if you’re town, do you honestly think Heroine and JC are more likely to be mafia than Big Octo and Atticus? Have Big Octo and Atticus really, truly, contributed to the town cause in, I don’t know, any way possible? If me and JC were mafia, why were we the FIRST ones to try and get the ball moving today?

And what about you, Vergo?

As for myself, my tune and taste for this game changed a while back. I can’t say much for myself other than that. I was bored by this game until somewhat recently, but now I want to make sure that it isn’t the mafia sweep it was shaping up to be back when, you know….. nothing was happening. (coughcough Like what would be happening today without me and JC coughcough)

 

[Pen]

Yesterday GDL made a pretty lengthy post in which he expressed his suspicions towards me. His strongest accusation as far as I could see was the fact that I was looking for the Cult Leader instead of hunting for the Mafia. At the time when I was doing this I did realize that I might look a bit scummy, but since almost every other player seemed to be tracking down Mafiosi, I decided to go looking for the Cult as it seemed like an equally big threat to the Town at the time. That is the reason why to chose to look for the Cult as opposed to the Mafia prior to this day. Today however, the Mafia is undoubtedly the larger threat.

So to you three - Deku, JC, Heroine - our strategy today should be to lynch either Big Octo or Atticus based on the above. We have the numbers to do this, but only if we work together. Pendio or Thareous, feel free to help us out if you think it'll improve your chances further down the line (Pendio, you wanted to lynch Big Octo yesterday. Why not help us do that today?). Big Octo, Atticus, and Go Dark Link, sorry, I don't trust you guys right now, especially the former two.

Indeed. I am still up for a Big Octo lynch. I was thinking about the Cult Leader suspicions that I came up with yesterday, and I realized that they would actually apply to any Mafia member as well. The reason why I started to suspect them was because they were (in one way or another) defending Keith or questioning the bandwagon against him. From a Mafioso's point of view this would be a good (and also quite basic) tactic, since they would look good once the player is lynched and flips Town. Only, this one did not flip Town, but Cult. I am sure the Mafia did not expect him to be a Cultist since he was the first dead Cultist, which means that it was thanks to his death that the existence of the Cult was revealed. So yeah, if a lynch on the Big Octo came around today, I would undoubtedly join.

I would like to make it very clear to you though Vergo, that just because the two of us seem to share similar views right now, I do not trust you more than I did when this game started.

Also, I am really looking forward to hearing about JC's night investigations.

 

[Big Octo]

So, Vergo, how do we know you're not scum trying to take advantage of LyLo and heading a mislynch?

I could defend for days may playstyle, which has remained fairly consistent in the games I've played in (i.e. I don't do much). I can't argue my lack of activity, because it's a fact. I don't think it'll be much use discussing my busy schedule for the past few weeks, because inactivity is inactivity, it seems.

Despite the huge gaps in our playstyles, Vergo, I still think we have equal chances of being scum. And all that we seem to have on our side is "trust me."

 

[Heroine of Time]

Well... I had the vague hope that the mafia would assume I was some kind of important role and kill me off in the night, but that didn't happen, so I guess I'll have to tell the full story.

I'm afraid I'm not actually an investigative role. I never said I was. I'm actually the Town Captain. I could tell the cop, doctor, or vig who to target at night. I know ALIT targeted Kybyrian night one because I told him to. Because all of the roles I could advise are now dead, my role is completely worthless and I can't do anything.

I'm sorry that you all believed I was the Watcher, but I really did think that the mafia would go after either myself or JC, and I was hoping the ambiguity of my role might convince the mafia to target me instead. Like I said, my role is basically a VT now; I can't do anything. The best I could hope for was absorbing one of their kills.

I still stand by my belief that JC must be the Tracker, because I know for a fact that ALIT targeted Kybyrian. I thought it would have been for the best to confirm a notably skilled player early in the game, which is why I told him to do that. And Draco informed me that my advice was followed the next night.

So JC, who did you target last night? Do you have any results to share?

---

Now, as far as who's scum goes... I'm leaning towards Big Octo and Atticus as well. More so Atticus, I think, but that's mainly because I've seen her more recently than Big Octo. Three of some of her most recent posts have essentially been nothing but insisting on her own innocence. She didn't comment on anything else that was going on, notably ignoring the shift in attention toward Big Octo (although a lot of people did that, so she's not alone) and sticking with her vote on Fig. I understand her concern about the lack of evidence against her, but the fact remains that she didn't acknowledge anything else going on at that time and remained solely focused on herself. Perhaps her seemingly all-consuming worry over being suspected is due to a real guilt. And I suppose, if the Role Cop really DID vote Fig, it'd make sense that she didn't want to change her vote and instead focused on something other than the day's lynch possibilities.

Big Octo is a lot harder to read, as he preferred to distance himself from the Fig lynch. In fact, he's remained very neutral throughout the entire game. I can't help but wonder if that's because he's mafia? Big Octo is pretty good at staying under the radar, so it's simultaneously difficult to accuse him or trust him.

I also have some fainter suspicions of Pendio, just because of how he unvoted Fig yesterday to vote for Big Octo. I understand and respect that he was trying to change the lynch target, but perhaps it's simply my own paranoia that's making me wonder if he did that intentionally to have the vote count between Fig and JC become uneven so that JC would be lynched instead. Just a thought. But if Fig was investigated by the Mafia Role Cop, this doesn't really matter, as any mafia member would have most likely wanted to lynch Fig.

I have little else to say on everyone else. Vergo and GDL have both been posting very well thought out analyses lately that have made sense so far, so I'm inclined to trust them, but mafia could do that just as well. I'm not sure what to think of them. Thareous has suspected me pretty much the whole darn game, haha, but I don't have much else to say about him. I don't think that necessarily makes him mafia, but I'm not really sure he's Town, either. DekuNut could go either way, but since he's the double voter, I think it's best if we don't lynch him for the moment, because his role is more likely to be Town, and we can't afford to lynch a Townie.

 

[Ronin]

Good thing that I thought to check the most recent reply on the bottom of the "Go Advanced" page, or else I would have posted my tirade about how Heroine seemed a good candidate for the supposed Role Cop... xD

So Heroine, do you basically know who all of the power roles are? And if so, could you confirm Justa's role that way?

 

[Pen]

So Heroine, do you basically know who all of the power roles are? And if so, could you confirm Justa's role that way?

That is not how the Captain role works. Basically she knew there was a Doctor, a Cop and a Vigilante in the game, but she did not know who has these roles. And at night she could order one of the roles (through the game mod) to target a specific player. The mod would then forward the order to the Doctor/Cop/Vigilante and then this person could choose to obey the order or not. Heroine would later learn whether the order was obeyed or not through the game mod.

@Heroine: What are all of the orders that you have made throughout this game?

 

[Justac00lguy]

Honestly we can't work in hypotheticals now, we have three claimed players and we need to work together. In my analysis post I said that Vergo and Go_dark were leaning Town (though I still feel Vergo might be the Cult Leader). With what seems like three claimed players, with the addition of two pro Town players, it seems we have the scum cornered, which would explain why Thareous is so wary of it. I'm sorry Thar, but you can't just deny me and Heroine, you have to trust us; its the only tool Town have. That is, unless, you are scum.

---

I didn't get any results back, but I targeted Heroine. My main goal was to confirm her and try and overpower Mafia the following day. Of course on the flip side, I wanted to see if Heroine was telling the truth. I didn't get any results back, which seems logical as Heroine didn't use her role, so I have no choice but to believe her claim for the benefit of today's productivity. I know some people may be curious, but c'mon someone could have easily counter claimed me at any time and you're fighting a losing battle saying we're both scum as that possibility is very very unlikely.

For me, the four people that are most likely scum are Big Octo, @icus, Pendio, and Thareous. I'm still not sure on Pendio, but, if I had to say who my four picks were, then they'd be my choices.

 

[Heroine of Time]

That is not how the Captain role works. Basically she knew there was a Doctor, a Cop and a Vigilante in the game, but she did not know who has these roles. And at night she could order one of the roles (through the game mod) to target a specific player. The mod would then forward the order to the Doctor/Cop/Vigilante and then this person could choose to obey the order or not. Heroine would later learn whether the order was obeyed or not through the game mod.

Yep, that's true. Hope that answers your question, Thareous.

@Heroine: What are all of the orders that you have made throughout this game?

Unfortunately, telling ALIT to target Kybyrian is the only one. I know it was stupid, but on night two, I wasn't sure who to target, so I decided to just let the power roles decide for themselves, and on night three, I was too late to submit an action. I didn't think my role would ever actually come in handy, sooo... I wasn't really thinking ahead. (Plus that was a really busy time for me...)