WW-Wii U One of the Worst Final Bosses in the Series

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Huh? What? You do this, too?
No wonder you find Ganon actually hard. You preserve your light magic and aim for his face with your light arrows. What are you doing? Just roll under his legs. Honestly, it's simple. Easier than TWW Ganondorf.

I'm quite fatigued with arguing subjective points of difficulty; I'm not here to go circular logic on which one is harder, and I think it's a waste of time. What I am here to say, and has been my main point since the first post I made is this: In WW Ganondorf, you hold up your shield, and you parry. That's it. You can dance around if you'd like, but it's next to pointless. There's absolutely 0 challenge. I brought up conflicting points in OoT and MM. In those two games, you can't just hold up your shield and press the parry button. You have to demonstrate some method of skill and timing other than pressing the A button when you hear a sound. Whether or not that is actually "difficult" is subjective, but it's still more than pressing just one button. If you were just smart enough to roll under his legs the first time you fought him, then I guess you're a pretty cool and smart gamer. But the battle is designed like this - I've used Light Arrows and the Master Sword to beat Ganondorf. I don't have the Master Sword anymore. What can I use? The Light Arrows. You can design alternate methods to get to the tail, but this is what you obviously try first.

And also, I can't help but feel that everyone is just shying away from actually defending WW. Saying that another game's final boss is subjectively easier doesn't excuse that, especially because of the unique characteristics of the WW battle. The thread is about what WW did wrong, and how it could've been corrected. It's all well and good to compare and contrast, but when the conversation turns to whether or not OoT was subjectively easier, it's lost its purpose. The OP was about how WW Ganondorf has some flawed technical issues that make it less than exhilarating, and we should stick to those flaws and why they don't work, or argue that they're not flaws at all and make a better experience.

WW's final battle would have been much better if 1.) There was no parry option, or 2.) The parry just didn't work on Ganondorf.

 

[Ventus]

texas tech
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Ganondorf has a pretty imposing pseudo-range. I don't believe that you should be able to shield against him; his blades are at least twice the height of Link and his puny shield should be useless by all accounts. :/

 

[Musicfan]

I'm aware you can roll under his legs, but that's not the intended method. Even when doing so, though, it doesn't matter because there's a pillar that you can get Ganon to destroy which contains a crapload of magic jars.

Then why did they put that option in the game if it is not one of the intended methods?

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

This is ridiculous. Don't tell me what I obviously try first. The first thing I tried was rolling between his legs. No master sword? Megaton hammer or Biggoron Sword. This is honestly what seemed easiest to me. Roll. Slash. Yeah, that's really complicated game mechanics. Listen to yourself.

Alright man, that's fine. Didn't mean any offense, truly sorry if you took it that way. Just trying to analyze on a basis here, not personally attack you.

 

[JuicieJ]

And also, I can't help but feel that everyone is just shying away from actually defending WW. Saying that another game's final boss is subjectively easier doesn't excuse that, especially because of the unique characteristics of the WW battle. The thread is about what WW did wrong, and how it could've been corrected. It's all well and good to compare and contrast, but when the conversation turns to whether or not OoT was subjectively easier, it's lost its purpose. The OP was about how WW Ganondorf has some flawed technical issues that make it less than exhilarating, and we should stick to those flaws and why they don't work, or argue that they're not flaws at all and make a better experience.

If I recall correctly, you were the first one to bring Ganon's fight from OoT into the mix, soooooo...

Then why did they put that option in the game if it is not one of the intended methods?

I never said "one of". Those two words make a pretty large difference in context, changing what I actually said entirely.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

If I recall correctly, you were the first one to bring Ganon's fight from OoT into the mix, soooooo...

You couldn't do that with Ganon in OoT; hell, you didn't even have the Master Sword for half of the battle, and having enough magic was a legitimate concern against Ganon...

Literally the only thing I said about OoT in my initial post. No one questions the paragraph above it, where I outline my very deep concerns with WW's parry system, and no one actually addresses the paragraph that featured my OoT comparison dealing with the WW final boss besides GaroXicon. I used the OoT comparison as support for the overarching theme of the thread, which was WW's final boss design problems. I feel that keeps in topic very well.

Saying "No, OoT was easy" without addressing WW at all and especially not addressing my initial post, that would be what I consider off-topic personally. But I'm getting the feeling that a lot of arguments I'm making here just aren't being responded to, and that it's boiling down to red-herrings that people are bringing up because they don't want to talk about the actual topic. I may be wrong, but that's what I'm sensing right now.

I didn't take offense, I apologize myself if I came off that way as well.

Of course. I'm glad we're both reasonable.

Now in defense of TWW, although the fight was easy, I greatly agree with Garo in that atmosphere is extremely important, moreso than challenge or gameplay. Want a challenge? 3HC Hero Mode. That's a challenge. I've died twice and I only beat the first dungeon... I will admit however I use some of my speedrun tactics which are quite a bit more dangerous in hero mode. No glitches or exploits, though, I want to legitimately beat it... Besides, most of the glitches, including WW dive are removed... but I digress. You can make a boss or game more challenging by putting restrictions. For me, the challenge of a game at face value has little to no effect on how much I like the game. I care much more about mood and plot, and as I said if I want to make a game challenging I can put restrictions on myself.

GaroXicon had some really good points on this as well, dealing with atmosphere and mood. I did address many of my opinions on page two in response to GaroXicon, so I don't really feel like reiterating them right now. But I basically agree 100% that atmosphere and mood have become critically important. My expectations for certain series wouldn't be met without it. However, for Zelda, my expectations are good gameplay design and acceptable challenge. WW does a good job with mood, atmosphere, charm, you name it. But it falls short on the one area I consider most important in a Zelda game, which is why I feel it's sub-standard.

I'll admit, I do find any Zelda game challenging on just a three heart run, I can't argue that. And added difficulty modes are always welcome, which is exactly what Oot, WW, and SS have done. I can honestly say I hope options like this continue. However, I can't really say that self-imposed challenges are the best way to measure a game's natural difficulty. I'm positive FFXIII would become a whole lot more difficult without using the level up system at all. But, at face value, without the self-imposed restrictions, it is rather easy.

I respect the point of view that a good presentation is key for a final boss battle..... But for Zelda, I just expect different things from it. I'll be the first to cry foul if other game series push aside a spectacular dramatic finish for some reason, but I can forgive Zelda for it. The opposite is actually true for most of Nintendo's first party games - I expect an amazingly designed boss battle, with some decent challenge. I can respect a good, dramatic ending, but not at the expense of disappointing me in the other departments.

 

[DarkestLink]

The only thing that bugged me about the atmosphere is that I didn't feel...intimidated. Sure Ganondorf just mugged me with ease, but the king pretty much wished for my victory...sooo...there goes the threat of losing. XD

 

[Musicfan]

I never said "one of". Those two words make a pretty large difference in context, changing what I actually said entirely.

How ever you made it sound like there was only one intended why to defeat ganon. It not like your exploiting a glitch or pulling of something that is impossible to do.

 

[r2d93]

well I think most people would disagree with you. I personally loved the final fight with Ganondorf. I found it challenging in hero mode and in fact I had the opposite of your problem, Zelda wasn't talking at all. I had to fight Ganondorf for a decent while before Zelda finally suggested using my shield and after that one suggestion the deed was done.

Also, I love molgera, and I have little gripes with the mirror shield

 

[Zelda_zone]

Just a note on the Controls for the mirror shield (and boat cannon) -

you can change the direction they move on an Option screen from the Gamepad. Mine were moving down when I pushed up, and VV, which was very confusing. I changed the option for this under the Option menu, and then they worked the way I remembered: up for up, down for down. Seriously, who would like it the reverse?

 

[Dio]

It's not a bad final boss at all. It is underwhelmingly easy, however it has great atmosphere and is a good end to the game.

 

[JuicieJ]

It's not a bad final boss at all. It is underwhelmingly easy, however it has great atmosphere and is a good end to the game.

The design is terrible, though. You know, the most important part of a boss fight?

 

[Dio]

The design is terrible, though. You know, the most important part of a boss fight?

I didn't have problems with it.

 

[JuicieJ]

I didn't have problems with it.

It's a repetitive parry fest...

 

[Dio]

It's a repetitive parry fest...

It's over before you know it.