• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Breath of the Wild Do You Want ZeldaU to Be a Light-Hearted Game or Dark?

Castle

Ch!ld0fV!si0n
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Location
Crisis? What Crisis?
Gender
Pan-decepticon-transdeliberate-selfidentifying-sodiumbased-extraexistential-temporal anomaly
Darkness in the tone seems preferable to darkness in the visuals. Although Majora's Masks visuals were dark in that they were rather stylistically outlandish in rather unsettling ways. As far as the color pallet goes MM was quite vivid. That juxtaposition itself is rather creepy. Twilight Princess's visuals were dark in that they were... well, dark. The thematic aspects of TP never struck me as dark, though. I think the Big N missed the mark on that one.

I don't think ZeldaU needs to be one or the other, though. I would like a heavier plot with more risk to the characters and the world.

If we can use the E3 WiiU demo as any indication I'd say they're heading in the right visual direction.
 

Deeds

no text
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Twilight Princess on the other hand went very dark and lost the charm of a Zelda game.
To me, Majora's Mask was a lot more dark then Twilight Princess. So I kind of disagree with you on that one. For me, TP still had charm, but relied on other perks to make it stand out, such as the dungeons - in my opinion.
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
What the hell does toon shading have to do with higher quality gameplay? Hell, if anything, the toon shaded water limits gameplay because you can't have underwater portions because the water is blue, rather than see through.

And no, it's not smart. Using these kinds of graphics makes no use of what the Wii U is capable of clearly leads to lower sales, based on what we've seen.

In no way shape or form is using realistic graphics the cheap route. If anything, it's the other way around seeing how much easier it is to use cell shading.
We had under water sections on Skyward Sword didn't we? And just because you fail to picture that Wind Waker could do the same, It doesn't mean that It doesn't. As I said, realistic is more time consuming and takes more disc space, that will directly impact the game length, gimmicks, engine, etc.

Why do you think non realistic graphics = lower sales? You're wrong. NOBODY, BUY ZELDA GAMES FOR GRAPHICS. Shooter (few exceptions, such as Gran Turismo 5) tend to have the "best" graphics, you know why? It's because graphics in that case is a huge part of the experience due to It requireing to be realistic. Shooters copy the real world, they NEED to be realistic. Zelda on the other hand? It's a waste. Seriously, It's waste of money, development time, disc space and everything. Nobody buys Zelda game for graphics, ZELDA DOESN'T NEED TO BE REALISTIC. You have to face the fact that there isn't much to improve graphic wise from PS3 and 360, actually, Wii U is uncapable of doing that. PC will always be better and always have a superior version graphics wise and those who want graphics tend to use that instead. But what Wii U can do is make an upgraded Skyward Sword graphics and I can guarantee you, It will be highly praised, even more than realistic, which wouldn't show us anything groundbreaking. There is a lot of room to improve and they're quite obvious to those who know anything about graphics. Textures, lightning effects, 3D model bones, polygon count, anti aliasing, etc. Nintendo could make Skyward Sword graphics better by a huge margin while still mantaining It's colorful/cartoonish/anime look and show Wii U potential that way. You have to remember console games can't run on Full HD without major frame drops, they run at 30fps instead of 60fps, that's why we don't have even beatiful games such as Uncharted 3 run on 1080p. While Wii U most likely would be able to do that, non realistic graphics still would have smoother animation with a more stable fps.

Cel shading (btw, Skyward Sword =/= Cel Shade) isn't easier to develop than realistic, less time consuming is the right word. With realistic graphics you can use real world texture and base yourself on real humans, that can't be done on cartoonish graphics. You have to create everything from a scratch. The only reason It doesn't take longer is because you end up using less polygons on the 3D models and simplified textures. Cheap tactics are the ones that people tend to highly praise for pretty much no reason, like how CoD and BF always come back with a slightly updated graphic and pretty much the same gameplay and people treat It like It's groundbreaking. Making a game that works perfectly with cartoonish graphics go realistic is an attempt of doing that, or maybe making a slow paced game faster paces with a few of those famous shooter elements, kinda of what happened to the Resident Evil series. In general, those cheap tactics tend to disapoint older fans and are clearly just there to milk the series without giving a damn about how good It is.
 

Curmudgeon

default setting: sarcastic prick
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Gender
grumpy
Don't care about the graphics. Force me to make difficult, high-stakes decisions that have important consequences. I should feel conflicted. Enough of the plot-on-rails. Make my decisions matter.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
Nobody buys Zelda game for graphics, ZELDA DOESN'T NEED TO BE REALISTIC.
Well, hate to be the Devil's Advocate, but I actually DO buy Zelda games for their graphical capabilities. Granted, the games on every system prior to Wii U won't be at the forefront of console gaming as far as graphics are concerned, but games like TP and SS, with their blur and jagged edges problems respectively, are worthy to be dissected, at least for the hardware they're placed on. What I'm getting at is that while Zelda may be on consoles, they should still make the MOST of the hardware they're on graphically speaking. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask did it (I think). Why can't Zelda U?

Nintendo could make Skyward Sword graphics better by a huge margin while still mantaining It's colorful/cartoonish/anime look and show Wii U potential that way.
The thing is, Skyward Sword like TWW took a very minimalist approach to graphics. SS might have a nice art style, but it will never be able to show off the true potential of the Wii U. I'm not saying realistic graphics are the only way to show potential, but SS and TWW both cannot do so because they will never make use of every single graphical capability.

For that reason, I'd much rather a TP-esque or Wii U tech demo-esque graphical feel. And to go along with that, darker themes just because. Death, murder, derision, other such things would be fitting for such a game.
 

Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
As I said, realistic is more time consuming and takes more disc space, that will directly impact the game length, gimmicks, engine, etc.

Skyrim is a realistic game yet I don't see it's game length, gimmicks or engine getting impacted. It's actually got at least ten times the amount of content SS has and I'm talking about the xbox 360 here. Imagine Nintendo using the same graphics on the Wii U for ZU (Note: Wii U is more powerful than the 360). I really don't understand how it could be a bad thing, ZU could still deliver more content & a bigger world than any of the 3D Zelda games put together + better graphics.

NOBODY, BUY ZELDA GAMES FOR GRAPHICS.

True, but I don't see how you can improve SS's graphics anymore without making them realistic at some point.
 
Last edited:

Sydney

The Good Samaritan
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Location
Canberra, Australia
16480d1353450049-isu-basketball-will-always-isu-football-http-m-espn-go-com-ncb-rumors-913535e2_why_not_both.png


Honestly, I'm sure the Zelda franchise is very capable of producing a Zelda game that balances both light and dark very well. If I had to choose, I would probably go with something darker. Sure, one could say that MM and TP were dark games, but I want something truly dark. Not dark graphics, and not a moon crashing on top of a town; I want something we've never seen before. Something that fans will never expect, but will grow to love.

Surprise me Nintendo, surprise me.
 

Castle

Ch!ld0fV!si0n
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Location
Crisis? What Crisis?
Gender
Pan-decepticon-transdeliberate-selfidentifying-sodiumbased-extraexistential-temporal anomaly
Hey Blu, if graphics are so unimportant then why do you care so much? Seriously, we get it. You don't like realistic graphics. Good for you.

Coincidentally this discussion isn't entirely about graphics it's about tone and style. The nature of the graphics is far from the only thing that can determine the mood of a video game. And this thread is certainly not about what sort of graphic style or quality is better than some other.
 
I'll be content with any style sans cel shading or the lighthearted realistic mixture that was Skyward Sword. The former I dismiss due to be the most prominent graphic style in the past ten years-it's long overdue-whereas the latter I failed to find particularly striking. I've always been a fan of minute details are impressionist immersion.

I'd appreciate a darker toned Zelda game for once. Although this doesn't equate to a world as bleak as Twilight Princess's, the color palette in Majora's Mask was clearly muted as well with an equally poignant narrative and fitting design choices. What I don't want Nintendo to do is emulate successful mature rated adventure games on the market like The Elder Scrolls, Batman Arkham, and Assassin's Creed. Every franchise needs to establish its natural pace and evolution should be natural, not forced by consumer demands or perceived backwardness. I'd argue the combat is Zelda is better than any of those games; while the world and plot could use some tweaking, Zelda remains in an upper videogame tier nonetheless.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
We had under water sections on Skyward Sword didn't we? And just because you fail to picture that Wind Waker could do the same, It doesn't mean that It doesn't. As I said, realistic is more time consuming and takes more disc space, that will directly impact the game length, gimmicks, engine, etc.

Skyward Sword isn't cell shaded.

Why do you think non realistic graphics = lower sales?

Wind Waker.

You're wrong.

Wind Waker.

NOBODY, BUY ZELDA GAMES FOR GRAPHICS.

Raaaaaaaaaage.

Zelda on the other hand? It's a waste.

I wouldn't call Customer Satisfaction and 2x the sales a waste.

Seriously, It's waste of money, development time, disc space and everything.

Let's see....TP took longer to make than Wind Waker, yes, but it sold nearly twice as much and had more content. And heck, SS had a simpler art style than TP and it took longer to make.

Nobody buys Zelda game for graphics, ZELDA DOESN'T NEED TO BE REALISTIC.

I must have imagined the pre-Wind Waker hate that existed solely because of graphics. And yes, it does need to be realistic. That has been a huge focus since OoT, with Miyamoto obsessing over the most minute details to make sure it was as realistic as possible.

Nintendo could make Skyward Sword graphics better by a huge margin while still mantaining It's colorful/cartoonish/anime look and show Wii U potential that way.

It can be improved yes, but not enough to show the Wii U's true potential.

Cel shading (btw, Skyward Sword =/= Cel Shade) isn't easier to develop than realistic, less time consuming is the right word.

Not really. There's a team working on this individually and their progress has little impact on how fast the game comes out. They could complete their goals in half the time and it'd still make no difference since they need to rely on the progress of the other groups.

With realistic graphics you can use real world texture and base yourself on real humans, that can't be done on cartoonish graphics. You have to create everything from a scratch. The only reason It doesn't take longer is because you end up using less polygons on the 3D models and simplified textures. Cheap tactics are the ones that people tend to highly praise for pretty much no reason, like how CoD and BF always come back with a slightly updated graphic and pretty much the same gameplay and people treat It like It's groundbreaking. Making a game that works perfectly with cartoonish graphics go realistic is an attempt of doing that, or maybe making a slow paced game faster paces with a few of those famous shooter elements, kinda of what happened to the Resident Evil series. In general, those cheap tactics tend to disapoint older fans and are clearly just there to milk the series without giving a damn about how good It is.

Really? Seemed to work well with TP. Gaining far more sales than its predecessor, doing better among critics, and honestly, the game felt faster paced to me. Dunno about you.
 

Deeds

no text
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Seriously, we get it. You don't like realistic graphics. Good for you.
Exactly. At this stage, it all boils down to personal opinion. I guess it's just the facts that you have to back up your opinion that really make it stand out.
I personally, think that realistic graphics can be used incredibly, and so can cell-shaded graphics - but in order to make the most out of this 'HD Console' that Nintendo promised us, I'd prefer realism.
 

zeldahero3

Zelda Forever!
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Location
The Stock Pot Inn (East Clock Town)
I would like half and half. I really liked Skyward Swords light and colorful atmosphere, and I also loved Majora's mask dark atmosphere. Maybe a light over world, with places that were dark like the spirit relam or twilight relam scattered through it
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
I would like half and half. I really liked Skyward Swords light and colorful atmosphere, and I also loved Majora's mask dark atmosphere. Maybe a light over world, with places that were dark like the spirit relam or twilight relam scattered through it

That is very interesting proposition. Having the game split half and half could bring about some perfect realizations of theme; in fact the half and half thing could go to the concept of yin/yang. Without light there can be no darkness and vice versa. But, the notion worries me because Zelda games have never really been about a specific theme in my experience. They all have spoken this generic tale about how some random kid goes from zero to hero (except where it's personalized like in MM). Would Zelda U be a revolution for Zelda storytelling via this light/dark theme?
 

Castle

Ch!ld0fV!si0n
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Location
Crisis? What Crisis?
Gender
Pan-decepticon-transdeliberate-selfidentifying-sodiumbased-extraexistential-temporal anomaly
Yeah that dichotomy was mentioned before with TP, with the way areas would start as dark and dismal then Link's heroic efforts would clear them so that they are made bright and magnificent again. I also mentioned the way MM uses the juxtaposition between bright and outlandish visuals and the dark tone of its subject matter to good effect.

I think this is a dichotomy that could be used again. I wouldn't mind seeing it. Overall, though, the games that have used this dichotomy so far have been considered "dark" by nature. It is kinda difficult to see any sort of underlying darkness in the visuals of WW and SS. Unless you count any anxiety for Zelda and the impending rise of Demise or Link stabbing Ganon in the face.
 

Deeds

no text
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
I would like half and half. I really liked Skyward Swords light and colorful atmosphere, and I also loved Majora's mask dark atmosphere. Maybe a light over world, with places that were dark like the spirit relam or twilight relam scattered through it
Well said. That's an interesting idea, and I have to say - I didn't think of it. It would have to be organised though, the 'twilight realms', that is. Otherwise it could end up being badly flowing.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom