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Breath of the Wild What if Botw had optional dungeons, which transformed a few existing shrines when you reached each main plot point?

Joined
Jan 10, 2017
This way, you’re still free to discover any shrines at any point, but if you choose to follow the plot points of a main quest narrative, a select few of those shrines transform into traditional dungeons (perhaps even novel items in each).

Of course, if you choose not to follow the main quest narrative, you can still level up stats through shrines alone.

Thoughts?
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
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man
This way, you’re still free to discover any shrines at any point, but if you choose to follow the plot points of a main quest narrative, a select few of those shrines transform into traditional dungeons (perhaps even novel items in each).
The combination of multiple shrines with similar themes into bigger, dungeon-esque shrines like "Trial of Power" or "Blue Flame" is very appealing. But I don't think that they should be formatted as shrines; if they were to be found naturally in the world, it would make these quests mean more.

However, I've never liked the argument that BotW doesn't have "classic" dungeons. While they don't "feel" like classic dungeons because they take place in the overworld, the amount of scripted Shrine Quest content more than makes up for the lack of traditional opening puzzles - mini boss - item - ending puzzles - final boss design. Thyphlo Ruins, the Lost Woods quests, the three labyrinths, the Forgotten Temple, the Hebra and Gerudo Great Skeleton, Eventide Island, Mount Taran, Kass's riddles. All that content combined adds up to the dungeon content of other games, at least as combat is concerned. And, because of the physics system, every combat encounter can also act as a puzzle.

But if you want specific puzzle content, there is a tremendous amount found in the shrines. They get a bad wrap generally because most are so short, but adding them all together results in the puzzle dungeon content of other games.

I also don't think the Divine Beasts get enough credit. Yes, they have some easy puzzles, but the last time Zelda had hard dungeon puzzles was Oracle of Ages so I don't really mind. And the freeform nature and complete control of the moving pieces is a completely new and fascinating take on Zelda dungeons, while still having a somewhat natural progression throughout. The only difference is that the "item" (Champion ability) is gotten at the end of the dungeon rather than in the middle.

The real issue with BotW dungeon content is that the copy and paste nature and short-form experience of the Divine Beasts, the Shrines, and the Shrine Quests don't allow the content to feel like a Zelda dungeon. This is why the randomization of plot-based dungeon-shrines wouldn't be that effective: you still wouldn't be solving the issue of these challenges not feeling like dungeons. I think that, instead of the ability to get to all shrines, you get rid of the concept of a blessing shrine and just add more challenges to the natural landscape. Because you'd end up with the same result: specific shrines designed for the completion of a specific challenge, plot-based or otherwise.

But the integration of challenges into the fabric of the world, like the Yiga Clan Hideout, would make these dungeons have that appealing Zelda-dungeon game feel. That's what I would prefer: plot-point-based challenges that are not capped by "dungeon shrines" or, in a worse case, "blessing shrines." This would make these experiences more meaningful and more in line with both Zelda philosophy and Breath of the Wild philosophy.
 

Mikey the Moblin

if I had a nickel for every time I ran out of spac
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The combination of multiple shrines with similar themes into bigger, dungeon-esque shrines like "Trial of Power" or "Blue Flame" is very appealing. But I don't think that they should be formatted as shrines; if they were to be found naturally in the world, it would make these quests mean more.

However, I've never liked the argument that BotW doesn't have "classic" dungeons. While they don't "feel" like classic dungeons because they take place in the overworld, the amount of scripted Shrine Quest content more than makes up for the lack of traditional opening puzzles - mini boss - item - ending puzzles - final boss design. Thyphlo Ruins, the Lost Woods quests, the three labyrinths, the Forgotten Temple, the Hebra and Gerudo Great Skeleton, Eventide Island, Mount Taran, Kass's riddles. All that content combined adds up to the dungeon content of other games, at least as combat is concerned. And, because of the physics system, every combat encounter can also act as a puzzle.

But if you want specific puzzle content, there is a tremendous amount found in the shrines. They get a bad wrap generally because most are so short, but adding them all together results in the puzzle dungeon content of other games.

I also don't think the Divine Beasts get enough credit. Yes, they have some easy puzzles, but the last time Zelda had hard dungeon puzzles was Oracle of Ages so I don't really mind. And the freeform nature and complete control of the moving pieces is a completely new and fascinating take on Zelda dungeons, while still having a somewhat natural progression throughout. The only difference is that the "item" (Champion ability) is gotten at the end of the dungeon rather than in the middle.

The real issue with BotW dungeon content is that the copy and paste nature and short-form experience of the Divine Beasts, the Shrines, and the Shrine Quests don't allow the content to feel like a Zelda dungeon. This is why the randomization of plot-based dungeon-shrines wouldn't be that effective: you still wouldn't be solving the issue of these challenges not feeling like dungeons. I think that, instead of the ability to get to all shrines, you get rid of the concept of a blessing shrine and just add more challenges to the natural landscape. Because you'd end up with the same result: specific shrines designed for the completion of a specific challenge, plot-based or otherwise.

But the integration of challenges into the fabric of the world, like the Yiga Clan Hideout, would make these dungeons have that appealing Zelda-dungeon game feel. That's what I would prefer: plot-point-based challenges that are not capped by "dungeon shrines" or, in a worse case, "blessing shrines." This would make these experiences more meaningful and more in line with both Zelda philosophy and Breath of the Wild philosophy.
The puzzles are completely different
You cant have a "correct solution" when there are infinite solutions
 

Mikey the Moblin

if I had a nickel for every time I ran out of spac
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But you can have the "best" solution. The "intended" solution. And I also personally find it fun to use my brain and come up with my own solution.
The thing with emergent gameplay is there is no intended solution
There can sometimes be an obvious one
Coming up with "my own solution" feels a lot less special to me than being able to figure out the right one finally, but that's just like my opinion man. Emergent gameplay isnt for me. That's what I prefer about traditional dungeons
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2017
The thing with emergent gameplay is there is no intended solution
There can sometimes be an obvious one
Coming up with "my own solution" feels a lot less special to me than being able to figure out the right one finally, but that's just like my opinion man. Emergent gameplay isnt for me. That's what I prefer about traditional dungeons
I agree with all this. Emergent gameplay, to me, feels far more arbitrary and far less purposeful. I think a single vision is the way to maximise purpose.

It may be similar to having multiple endings to a story, which make none of them feel like the necessary thematic resolution. Imagine a film like The Shawshank Redemption having multiple endings. It would defeat the carefully constructed buildup of all scenes that led toward that single, hugely purposeful outcome.
 
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Any dungeons would be fine with me. Tbh I loved BotW, but I was really missing those classic dungeons. I mean the Divine Beasts were great, but I would have liked some harder puzzles, maybe a miniboss or two.
I really was hoping you'd have dungeons hidden in the world like in the forest you find the entrance to a temple and you can choose how to obtain entry. Imagine if there was actual seasons so if you come back to the Hebra mountains in spring you find a hidden entry to a snow dungeon that is blocked in the winter unless a heavy rain on snow event melts the snow enough.
 
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BotW was meant to have 10 Divine Beasts - and yes, these were meant to be dungeons:

https://doutzen-kroes.tumblr.com/post/185794151151/the-divine-beasts-are-these-strange-things-that

They were supposed to have palaces, bridges and factories as mobile fully-fledged dungeons. However, Idk why they literally cut 6 Divine Beasts and developed the 4 remaining Divine Beasts as bad as possible and we'll most likely never know the answer...

Seriously, I wouldn't mind if we didn't get a Forest Temple for instance as long as there would be a Divine Beast featuring said forest theme with its architecture.
 
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About that time Satori died and I think it lead to a lot of stumbling blocks as they likely weren't full completed and didn't want to damage
his vision of how to go. Also the power of the Wii U were in play which was pathetic so they had to balance his dreams vs the underpowered dog trying to run it. Remember this is NOT a Switch game which will make BOTW2 all that better! This game was heavily throttled back.


As for Satori he is more important then you think. This video explains how significant of a role he played in as I didn't even know the details and I'm a Zelda nerd.

I know people on forums these days hate videos for some odd reason but at least give it a shot before deciding you don't like it. I don't go around to chiefs and say how awful their food is or at least not do it without constructive feedback to make a balance which sadly is an old fashioned value now The SIGNIFICANCE Behind the Satori Mountain || Breath of the Wild Documentary - YouTube

TL/DR version: They didn't name it Satori Mountain for his health and the video says it all. Hell I wonder if some or even all of these scrapped dungeons will be repurposed in BOTW2 when they realize what they can do!

https://youtu.be/hXkttAOoHDM?t=132 I skipped to a very important quote..
 

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