Super Smash Mafia - Originals vs Clones (Game Thread)

[Mido]

Hmm....I think the mechanics are coming together quite nicely in my mind. As a quick note, after catching up, I'm willing to wager much more confidently that Moonstone is a member of the town. Vergo is another on the list, based on the night scene. Now onto the bigger fish:

You all seemed to discern accurately as to how the mafia's attack works. Now, I'm concerned about the attack strengths. It seems that the high-profile town players would have high attack totals, such as shown below:

Attacked Players Today:
Ver-go-a-go-go(1) - Spiritual Mask Salesman(16%)
Spiritual Mask Salesman(2) - Frozen Chosen(7%), Ver-go-a-go-go(15%)
David(1) - DekuNut(5%)
Crus@der77x(1) - Moonstone(15%)

Total Player Damage:
Ver-go-a-go-go - 16%
Spiritual Mask Salesman - 22%
David - 5%
Crus@der77x - 15%

Of this collection, Vergo, SMS, and Moonstone are those high-profile players, potentially. (I cannot speak for SMS at this time, as I don't think I have enough information to completely rule him as town.) Lower attack strengths also don't necessarily discern scum.

Going on to FC-Dallas, what is interesting about the attack on him lies in some of the circumstances on the previous day, i.e. those aligned with what Moonstone mentioned. He voted SMS, and the later voted Vergo. I mention this due to the possibility that you guys mentioned: one in which SMS could be up for accusation due to his ties to those players. I have more to say on this, but I'm a tad pressed for time right now, so I will report in later.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

I don't know if I'm trying to be framed, really what I don't get is that I had the most damage at the end of Day 1, I'm wondering why the Mafia didn't follow through trying to put significant damage onto me in the night? I mean if you think about it the framing thing could have worked on Vergo if I was attacked in the night, so why did they attack Vergo? The only thing I can think is either they know I'm the newest player in this game so they felt I could be manipulated in a frame situation, or for some reason they felt Vergo was a bigger target to attack than me last night... @Ver-go-a-go-go should know whether the Mafia would want to kill him... if not than why would they attack Vergo for really no reason?

Well, this is where I go into super-speculation mode, but whatever, nothing else much is happening I guess.

Looking at the list of players, I believe I've been in past games with exactly 7 of them, making that half (I haven't kept up with name changes, so I might not be recognizing someone). I'd like to think that I'm at least considered somewhat experienced with mafia, which makes me an okay night-one target. Now, I don't really agree with the "kill the experienced players first" mentality, mainly because a good doctor/support roles usually use their roles on said players night one because they really have nothing else to go off of. For example, if I was the doctor, I'd be more inclined to protect someone like Viral Maze night one instead of someone like Frozen Chosen, just because if Viral is Town, he would probably be a common night one target. I can only assume this kind of thing happened last night, with the doctor opting to protect me thinking I'd be a common target, which all signs point towards being correct.

This means that the mafia is probably at least partly made up of people I've played with before (which honestly isn't a revelation or anything, as I know about half of you), and they're going with the "kill established players" and "kill active players" strategy. It's not a bad one, especially with the lacking activity we've had already. The good news is that I think our doctor/whatever knows what they're doing and had a good night one strategy, so that's something.

As far as "framing" you.... eh, very rarely have I found that to actually work. It just seems so obvious. You were the first one to actually attack anyone if I re-read correctly, and it's unfortunate that you apparently "misread" the thread and put that on me, since I thought right off the bat that was such a weird excuse to kick things off. Then again, I don't believe I've ever played a game with you before, and since Rep was fairly straight-forward in saying that it's not productive to the town not to attack at least a little bit during each day, your move did lead to what I believe to be a benefit to the town on the first day. I've found that it's very rare that a mafia member completely puts themselves out in the spotlight right off the bat on day one.

Anyway back to the attack scenario, I think it's logical that during the day the Town is going to get higher attack ranges wereas at night the Mafia is going to be dominant with attacks.

Yeah, I'm thinking that getting more damage totals here are key, although we're bound to upset some people by putting any sort of damage on them (like I kind of was yesterday). I'm interested to see if we can start correlations with damage. It's not necessarily indicative of being scum, but could prove other things that I'm still considering.

 

[Night Owl]

It sounds like the consensus is to find out the relative attack power of each other and see if it will help us learn anything.
Is it possible that the higher attack strength indicates having a power role rather than the current assumption that town has a higher attack strength than mafia?

Right now I'm thinking about putting my attack on someone we haven't heard a lot from.
Someone like ALIT or Viral.

 

[Frozen Chosen]

I wonder if Vergo was healed by a doctor like player or an item. Maybe it's the same thing? I don't know, but either way, it looked like it was a good move. Honestly the attack on me looks like a third party attack instead of a mafia one. I'm not sure if mafia can only focus all their attacks on one person or if they can spread out their attacks. To me, it looks like they only attacked Vergo.

I'm still suspicious of SMS to be honest. Nothing last night changed my opinion from the other day.

I also would like to hear from Viral and ALIT before attacking, at least there opinions.

 

[Ronin]

Heh... Going by Mido's post above, it seems pretty clear to me what happened. Vergo was attacked by the Mafia (notably, just enough to keep him alive) with the hopes of making him look suspicious, but the ploy is twofold. Notice that Spiritual Mask Salesman's name is listed as the attacker. SMS appears to be one of the top suspects from Day 1, so the Mafia must have realized that attacking the person who he attacked [Vergo] would put him under the limelight. Thusly, a split set of circumstances would ensue where Vergo and SMS started arguing, and ultimately start defending oneself (a stress-causing necessity), as it's already happened.

Not too shabby a tactic, just one that's hard to pull off without detection.

If attack rate is what determines the culprit, then I'd have no problem demonstrating on a random target, although everyone doing it could be gamebreaking.

 

[Moonstone]

@Repentance can you start including a list of non attackers in your vote count?

I have a lot going on right now, so I'm not sure how much I'll be on the next (nongame) day or so, but I will get some more posts in before the end of this (game) day, and I will watch from time to time. I just hope the thread doesn't get too inactive while I'm gone, but it seems to be going pretty good, which is why I feel comfortable taking the short time away I need.

 

[Jimmu]

Hey guys, apologies for the inactivity thus far. Just had a final this morning and have my last one next Thursday so I can be around a bit more often now.

It seems to me like the mafia are attempting to frame SMS, after attacking Vergo in Day one the mafia decided to continue attacking on him to attempt to get rid of him and frame SMS. I am a bit new to Mafia still (this is only my second game) but it would seem to me as though both Vergo and SMS are town.

Attacking to see the damages which each player can inflict could be beneficial to help us see the percentages and if they have any correlation with the importance of roles, also, we don't want to leave players with zero damage near the end game as Rep suggested. I'd like to make an attack today also, but hopefully we can hear from ALIT and Viral before I have to do so.

 

[Fig]

I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but I'm just going to follow-up to what has been stated previously during this day. I do believe that the mafia is trying to frame SMS by killing Verg. Considering he targeted Vergo alongside with the latter then getting hit severely by the end of the night, this makes the most sense. Kill a person who is part of an "argument", frame the other person, which leads to the town being suspicious to the former and then potentially kill him. It's been a while since I've played, but it sounds like a solid strategy to have.

As for the attack percentages and what it means, it could go either way. My personal thoughts is that you can't really go with the attack percent that an opponent deals out as some sort of proof, at least not to the fullest degree. One theoretical situation I will be using with Captain Falcon, Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Sheik, assuming all these characters are in this game. You can't really say who's town or not based on damage percentage because characters like Falcon and Doc deal a lot of damage for their moves. That said one of them is a clone and the other is not. Lucina is about average or less than average in terms of damage yet she's a clone. Then you have a character like Sheik who deals small amounts of damage in her moves but isn't a clone.

All I'm saying is the damage that a person offers can easily fit well with other characters within the roster and to truly find the mafia, behavior and actions are the first signs to pay attention to.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Attacking an inactive might not be bad if only a few people do it, but honestly I've learned from experience that the Mafia hardly ever stays inactive since inactivity is always looked as if it's scummy. The Mafia is more than likely staying somewhat active.

I'm not sure who I'll attack yet, I'm thinking maybe of attacking people who haven't been attacked...

 

[Fig]

I say we give players by the end of the day before start being suspicious of them. Sure they haven and spoke if any during the first day, but it is that time of year where finals are approaching so it makes sense why at least Alito hasn't spoken in awhile. I'm not that close with Viral but I would like to believe the same would be applied.

 

[Fig]

*Alit (auto-correct)

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Alito, lol!

 

[Frozen Chosen]

I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but I'm just going to follow-up to what has been stated previously during this day. I do believe that the mafia is trying to frame SMS by killing Verg. Considering he targeted Vergo alongside with the latter then getting hit severely by the end of the night, this makes the most sense. Kill a person who is part of an "argument", frame the other person, which leads to the town being suspicious to the former and then potentially kill him. It's been a while since I've played, but it sounds like a solid strategy to have.

As for the attack percentages and what it means, it could go either way. My personal thoughts is that you can't really go with the attack percent that an opponent deals out as some sort of proof, at least not to the fullest degree. One theoretical situation I will be using with Captain Falcon, Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Sheik, assuming all these characters are in this game. You can't really say who's town or not based on damage percentage because characters like Falcon and Doc deal a lot of damage for their moves. That said one of them is a clone and the other is not. Lucina is about average or less than average in terms of damage yet she's a clone. Then you have a character like Sheik who deals small amounts of damage in her moves but isn't a clone.

All I'm saying is the damage that a person offers can easily fit well with other characters within the roster and to truly find the mafia, behavior and actions are the first signs to pay attention to.

I see where you are coming from, Fig. Besides the framing of SMS, is there anything else you find funny or suspicious?

 

[David]

I'm just slightly interesting in what people think about the attack percentages that others have made during the day. We know that DekuNut and Chosen have lower attack powers (or at least both got unlucky with their respective 5% and 7% of damages), and the others have higher. It was brought up by Spiritual Mask Salesman that Mafia might have lower attack powers during the day than others. If that is true, then we might assume that DekuNut and Chosen are /both/ Mafia merely off of speculation.

However, I don't believe that to be the case. I believe that most people have attacks based on a signature part of their moveset in the game. For example, MegaMan's mega buster, or Link's bow, for example. Both are signature moves of those characters, but have significant attack power differences.

Furthermore, I highly doubt that Repentance would have made it as simple as having lower percentages for the Mafia during the day. I certainly wouldn't have done that. It makes it way too easy for the town to determine who is and who isn't Mafia.

As for who we should attack, we need to decide soon. We can spread the damage across the board, or target someone and kill them. Either way, if we don't do something soon, the Mafia will have 2 days over us and will have had the chance to deal significant damage twice.

 

[Night Owl]

My hunch is that attack percentages are related to power roles rather than whether someone is town or mafia.
Someone with a power role might have a higher attack than someone without one.

We still have 9 people who haven't attacked. We might find that a higher attack power is less common than it seems.

Attack: Viral Maze He hasn't posted since his RV day 1
And we really don't know his reason for being absent.

Plus It'll help the cause of attack analysis