Reworking the Hylian Knights

[tketle]

If the Hylian Knights are to be reworked, I think it's important to make sure they're given a clearly defined purpose. I know they technically have some vaguely defined role, something to do with encouraging good posting quality or whatever. But from what I've seen, the Hylian Knights don't actually do much other than create contempt. If the rank isn't necessary, and is more harmful than anything else, why does it continue to exist?

 

[Jamie]

The truth is, we have ideas for the Hylian Knights that we would like to share with the "New" Hylian Knights we pick when we go through the rebuilding process. We also plan on getting the opinion of these "New" Knights and reworking the system with their help. Some of us believe that these ideas cannot be feasibly implemented in a timely fashion without resetting everything and doing something "executive". Not every single HK will be re-promoted, they will all be taken on a case by case basis just like the rest of the community. There are other reasons as well, but this is the main reason for me. I, and others, think it is too difficult to make all of the changes we think need to happen without reworking the entire thing.

Interestingly enough though, Matt, your idea to turn the HK group into a clan is a plan to completely rework the system. However, you just don't like how we want to rework it. We aren't completely ignoring it though, all ideas presented on the forum are discussed.

 

[Emma]

The truth is, we have ideas for the Hylian Knights that we would like to share with the "New" Hylian Knights we pick when we go through the rebuilding process. We also plan on getting the opinion of these "New" Knights and reworking the system with their help. Some of us believe that these ideas cannot be feasibly implemented in a timely fashion without resetting everything and doing something "executive". Not every single HK will be re-promoted, they will all be taken on a case by case basis just like the rest of the community. There are other reasons as well, but this is the main reason for me. I, and others, think it is too difficult to make all of the changes we think need to happen without reworking the entire thing.

Interestingly enough though, Matt, your idea to turn the HK group into a clan is a plan to completely rework the system. However, you just don't like how we want to rework it. We aren't completely ignoring it though, all ideas presented on the forum are discussed.

Demoting everyone is not a solution. It's a baseless punishment that has no reason.

 

[Seth]

The fact that every HK discussion turns into a bloodbath might be reason enough to cut the losses here.

 

[Snow Queen]

The fact that every HK discussion turns into a bloodbath might be reason enough to cut the losses here.

Blood is necessary for progression. Some day the forum will be a land of bliss atop the corpses of the fallen.

 

[Jamie]

I've explained the reason. Demoting everyone allows us to start fresh and rework the system. You act almost as if you'd be okay with us reworking the system and not demoting everyone. I am of the belief that the current system is so ingrained in everyone, that if the staff were to try to rework it, it would never go through. Demoting everyone and promoting a few people to rework the system with allows us to deal with a lot less people (there are currently 16 knights). All of the changes many of us would like to discuss with the knights, if we have to discuss with 16 people, it becomes extremely difficult. Especially since many of these people are still inactive and have yet to be demoted.

 

[Emma]

I've explained the reason. Demoting everyone allows us to start fresh and rework the system. You act almost as if you'd be okay with us reworking the system and not demoting everyone. I am of the belief that the current system is so ingrained in everyone, that if the staff were to try to rework it, it would never go through. Demoting everyone and promoting a few people to rework the system with allows us to deal with a lot less people (there are currently 16 knights). All of the changes many of us would like to discuss with the knights, if we have to discuss with 16 people, it becomes extremely difficult. Especially since many of these people are still inactive and have yet to be demoted.

That makes no logical sense. It still looks like all you care about is punishing people and not reworking the system. Everything that you suggested as what to do after this is only going to make it more exclusive. You barely even awknowledged my idea. I want to discuss that. Instead of focusing on punishing people, and making people feel left out, like you keep insisting on, how about we talk about a system that does NOT make reasons to say someone isn't good enough to join or talk about that problem. Because demoting people and only adding back a few can only send the implication that those that are not, are unworthy of discussing it. And there being barely over a dozen now, that's really not many people now. So I don't really agree with your arguement about the number of people being involved.

 

[Jamie]

I simply do not see it as feasible to get these ideas across through 16 people when many of them still barely log on. Perhaps it seems like I want to punish, or make people feel left out, but I am proposing a solution that seems like it'll get things done in the most timely manner.

I'm not sure what your opinion of the staff is, Matt. We aren't stupid. Although we do not all agree on this, no one has stated that the solution is illogical within the staff team. So are we just all really oblivious and we can't see it? What is it, a dozen staff members, and none of us can come to a logical conclusion? Just because you disagree with us, does not mean we did not think this through and apply logic. Perhaps there are holes in our ideas but to assert we wish to punish people and are trying to kill the knights is pretty extreme. This isn't a conspiracy, Matt.

On the topic of clans, I don't really understand how they will be implemented. Anyone can have a colored name a special banner? I've been advocating the removal of banners, so I certainly cannot agree with the latter part if that's what you want. I'd like to see more detail on this before I comment.

 

[Onilink89]

We JUST had a poll about HK being removed entirely, and the majority wanted it's removal, and as such it should have been removed regardless of how much anybody else whines about it.

And thats fair? Only a few people gave a valid argument about removal about HK (me included). I wanted it to be removed because of this repeated drama and that HK basicly lost its purpose. I explained before in the other thread what the actualy role of HK was before it became a popularity contest.

But i also look things from other perspectives. Obviously most of the knights want to defend themselfs and are in a minority compared to normal members. And most normal members would like the rank removed just to feel more equal or maybe wanted to become a knight but didn't. It may sound silly but its a fact.

 

[Jamie]

Plenty of regular members voted for the HK rank to stay, and a couple of HKs voted for it to be removed.

 

[Emma]

I simply do not see it as feasible to get these ideas across through 16 people when many of them still barely log on. Perhaps it seems like I want to punish, or make people feel left out, but I am proposing a solution that seems like it'll get things done in the most timely manner.

I'm not sure what your opinion of the staff is, Matt. We aren't stupid. Although we do not all agree on this, no one has stated that the solution is illogical within the staff team. So are we just all really oblivious and we can't see it? What is it, a dozen staff members, and none of us can come to a logical conclusion? Just because you disagree with us, does not mean we did not think this through and apply logic. Perhaps there are holes in our ideas but to assert we wish to punish people and are trying to kill the knights is pretty extreme. This isn't a conspiracy, Matt.

On the topic of clans, I don't really understand how they will be implemented. Anyone can have a colored name a special banner? I've been advocating the removal of banners, so I certainly cannot agree with the latter part if that's what you want. I'd like to see more detail on this before I comment.

Demotion is explicitly a punishment. To use it for any other purpose is inherhently a corrupt act and it belittles the action when it is used as actual punishment. If the demotions are NOT punishment, then you shouldn't do them. It's that simple. Thinking that it's too many people to work with is not a valid reason to use something which is supposed to be used as punishment to "thin the herd." Invite all the knights to the conversation, instead of excluding them, like you've been trying to do. If they don't show, they don't show. And then you have their committment to it, none. But if you invite them to it, privately, with the promise they won't be belittled and attacked like we have been here, say just having it in the knights section, then we can see exactly who will particpate.

This is far more logical than your crazy idea to just remove people arbitrarily because some won't. partcipate. Don't be fooled. People who are too vocal and too annoying won't get added back. It won't be used to filter out inactives. No one's naive here. Just have the discussion in the knights section. If they don't show up, then you have your answer. Instead of using a punishment to filter out who you don't want to be involved.

 

[Jamie]

Matt, given that this is a site-related, it seems fitting that all of the Administrators are also involved in the process. However, the knights as they are are self governed. I originally wanted to make this thread in the knight section, but was met with opposition due to the fact that I am not a knight. So not only do I believe this would be fitting in an area where the administrators are "allowed" to post, but I also would like to hear the opinions of non-knights, as it still affects a part of the forum they browse.

 

[Onilink89]

Plenty of regular members voted for the HK rank to stay, and a couple of HKs voted for it to be removed.

The magic word in my post is "most" not "all"

 

[Djinn]

If the Hylian Knights are to be reworked, I think it's important to make sure they're given a clearly defined purpose. I know they technically have some vaguely defined role, something to do with encouraging good posting quality or whatever. But from what I've seen, the Hylian Knights don't actually do much other than create contempt. If the rank isn't necessary, and is more harmful than anything else, why does it continue to exist?

That's exactly it and a cause of a lot of the confusion. The Knights are not supposed to have any specific purpose at all or else we would just as well make a staff position and call it that. The whole thing about thew Hylian Knights is that as a community we will recognize an individual for being a very active member, friendly member of the community, and has overall good behavior with a recognition for all their effort in making the community a little better. With that comes a shiny purple name and a forum section to post in. Nothing more than that, they are not meant to be any special usergroup with more rights and privileges. Just a recognition for effort and positive behavior.

I imagine a lot of the confusion came along when some of the older members stopped being as active, or left the forums and the newer ones did not really know as much. Add a couple more generations of newer members that know less and have fewer conversations with the more knowledgeable and you have a large current group that has little idea of what they are meant to be or do.

 

[Emma]

Matt, given that this is a site-related, it seems fitting that all of the Administrators are also involved in the process. However, the knights as they are are self governed. I originally wanted to make this thread in the knight section, but was met with opposition due to the fact that I am not a knight. So not only do I believe this would be fitting in an area where the administrators are "allowed" to post, but I also would like to hear the opinions of non-knights, as it still affects a part of the forum they browse.

That's really really illogical. You not being a knight, but deciding on knight issues being used as a reason NOT to post in the knights does not justify PURGING the current knights and taking it public. Those contradict each other. I think you'd have been just fine with posting it in the knights section because of your admin rank. People wouldn't have had an issue with that. But purging everyone is an issue.