And as the other part of our conversation said, his value doesn't excuse what he did. The moderators have a bad reputation as it is of ignoring things the staff does wrong and making excuses for them to get away with it, as well as being overly harsh. The current staff has made it quite clear they're concerned about the the staff's reputation. That was a given in how hesitant everyone was to say this was abuse of power when it easily was by any definition. Making these excuses is only going to make staff reputation worse and I think we all can agree that's not desirable. Something should be done. The infraction should be deleted and at the least he should be restricted from doing any moderating at all. Stick to tech. I recommended him for admin in the first place because he was so good at it. There was also something I heard about of splitting the moderator and admin powers. Tech admins would be only admins, forum managing mods would have both the moderator and admin ranks. It'd make the staff look better and it could address this problem.
(OLD) Contest Unfair Infractions Here
- Thread starter Emma
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Even though the infraction has now been reversed, the situation should not be completely forgotten. This is not an isolated incident. Who's to say that this situation won't happen again? What Kitsu does as administrator does not justify his behavior. I guarantee you that he would have been infracted if he wasn't an administrator.
Perhaps what I find more puzzling is the numerous people who barely know DM claiming they understand his intentions. I am much more inclined to believe what people such as Matt, Vanessa, and Selenus are saying since they have known DM for years. I think it's interesting that this is the first time mostly everyone is sitting on the fence when previous contested infractions resulted in much firmer positions. The good Kitsu has done balances out with his overreactions and shouldn't be seen as negating it.
Perhaps what I find more puzzling is the numerous people who barely know DM claiming they understand his intentions. I am much more inclined to believe what people such as Matt, Vanessa, and Selenus are saying since they have known DM for years. I think it's interesting that this is the first time mostly everyone is sitting on the fence when previous contested infractions resulted in much firmer positions. The good Kitsu has done balances out with his overreactions and shouldn't be seen as negating it.
I reversed the infraction. From the available evidence (Kitsu did provide a good amount of evidence to the mod team, which should have also been communicated to DM in the infraction message), I see baiting from both parties, but not enough to warrant an infraction. The reversed infraction will stay on DM's profile as a reminder to show more restraint and respect. As for Kitsu, I believe what he did was not an "abuse of power" (in the premeditated sense), but a somewhat rash decision made in a less-than-objective context. I've made a few myself, Kitsu being the victim of one. I agree however that he should attempt to show more professionalism when interacting with members in an admin capacity.
Baiting and harassment are serious and toxic issues on this forum, and I think much of the problem stems from people coming under the impression that others are out to get them (even if it's a valid impression). I think we should all make efforts to take comments at face value and respond accordingly rather than retaliating.
Baiting and harassment are serious and toxic issues on this forum, and I think much of the problem stems from people coming under the impression that others are out to get them (even if it's a valid impression). I think we should all make efforts to take comments at face value and respond accordingly rather than retaliating.
It was always an imaginary distinction.
Mellow Ezlo
Spoony Bard
I mostly agree with that; however, I believe he and Rep should have the privilege to hand out warnings/infractions, but only to be used when there are no members of the moderation team around. Take last night, for instance; afaik, and I could be wrong, Kitsu was the only one around last night able to do anything about DM's behaviour (not saying it's justified or anything, that's a different matter entirely), so none of the actual mods could have done anything, resulting in Kitsu needing to take matters into his own hands.
Basically, the people responsible for the technical aspects of the forums should have the moderation privileges, but only to use when absolutely necessary. If it's something mods can handle, let them handle it, but if the mods are unavailable, then at least the tech admins are still able to do something about it.
We've had unfair infractions and warnings before that were entirely unwarranted. Leaving these in a person's record can harm them in the future when newer admins and mods, or dare I say, another abusive mod or admin, who are not aware of what went on, see that on someone's record and assume they deserve a harsher punishment because they have "history" being a problem. I myself have had my own baseless infractions and warnings used against me. If you're unwilling to delete them like they should, then at the very least a note has to be edited into these infractions and warnings saying that it was unwarranted and that it should not be used against the person in the future.
Jamie
Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
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Kitsu and I have full admin perms, db perms, ftp perms, vb perms, we can ban locke, change all your signatures to pornography, delete the whole fricken site and the data, you name it. We are trusted with all of this, but Kitsu can't give someone an infraction? Quite frankly I don't care that much about moderating, and if the staff team doesn't want me to, I won't, but I still believe it is incredibly silly.
Considering Admins can GIVE THEMSELVES privileges, maintaining a distinction between the two is stupid. Besides, as you said, your privileges are the same as all other admins.
Given how badly he mishandled that power, it should be revoked from him. We should make a distinction between tech admin and community admin and moderator. Not everyone suited for one can do the other.
Snow Queen
Mannceaux Signature Collection
He didn't mishandle anything.
CynicalSquid
Swag Master General
Why split the Admin position when the split isn't practiced?
Fraxinus
chunky plant goop
I'm not even sure if that [mod-admin/tech-admin] separation is still in play or not. Administrators Locke and Djinn used to be listed as moderators on this page after Repentance and Kitsu's promotion, but they're not anymore. But I don't actually recall that change being reversed, so I'm sure it's still in place. Regardless, all four admins have the same permissions (to my knowledge), they're just supposedly assigned different duties in their roles as administrators. But they are still able to fill the other admins' role if need be. While I'm for preventing a situation like this from happening in the future, I don't want an argument to arise out of the staff's decision. It's done, guys. I trust the staff will handle the rest of this on their own.
CynicalSquid
Swag Master General
You could have just said that.
They should be split back up given this incident. The defacto distinction should be made official.
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